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Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Christmas Wars | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Didn't the Puritans outlaw Christmas as a pagan holiday or something like that?
But a problem is that Luther is said to have brought in a Christmas tree. I haven't seen that debunked so I assume it's true. We COULD ignore the holiday but as long as nobody is celebrating any of those pagan deities I'm not worried about it. Why not have an all-out pretty glittery holiday once a year? I don't celebrate it any more myself anyway, it's something you do for others, and all the others in the family live far away. I usually see them after Christmas, which I will this year too. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
But since Protestantism is so firmly grounded in Catholicism, ... . Luther didn't completely free himself from the trappings, but there's not a shred of Catholic doctrine left standing even in his theology. Anglicanism is a similar situation but they too got doctrinally pure for a while. There are some great Anglican preachers but no recent ones. Aside from that it all got purer after Luther. A thorough purge was done of all the Catholic accretions, leaving the Bible and its earliest interpreters who knew nothing of the Roman corruptions. There's no way it's right to say it has anything to do with Catholicism. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5948 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5 |
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Whatever!!!
Presentations I've seen about Xmas have included evaluations of shepards being in the fields with their sheep. What I've seen presented have pointed out that that would have only happened while the lambs were being born, which would have been in the Spring, not at the Winter Solstice. The Winter Solstice is a very important celebration, especially in the Northern Hemisphere. The dichotomy between Light and Darkness is also important in Christianity, isn't it? That importance does remain regardless of whatever deity is being attributed to it, right? After all these months that Darkness is crowding out The Light, isn't the Winter Solstice when The Light does finally triumph against The Darkness?
Why not have an all-out pretty glittery holiday once a year? Precisely. We do all seek to have the Light vanquish the Darkness. That is precisely what happens at the Winter Solstice!
I don't celebrate it any more myself anyway, it's something you do for others, and all the others in the family live far away. I usually see them after Christmas, which I will this year too. Which is exactly as it should be! Happy Holidays for you and yours!
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5948 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5 |
Oh come the fuck on!
All that the Protestants had to work with was handed to them by the Catholic Church, including what the Biblical texts were. What Catholicism had to pass down was all that Protestantism had to work with.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
But we all know Jesus wasn't born in the winter, and sheep on the hillsides at night is a clue that He wasn't. Christmas is just an opportunity to celebrate His birth since we don't know when it was, and it displaced some pagan celebrations which was a plus. The Solstice hardly even enters into a Christian's mind. I always take note of it myself just because even though we're headed into real winter and it may be pretty miserable, I like to notice how the days are getting longer as a cheery note in the midst of it.
And Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
All that the Protestants had to work with was handed to them by the Catholic Church, including what the Biblical texts were. But that is in fact not true. Both Erasmus and Tyndale had Greek manuscripts of the Bible, which I understand to have come through the priests of the Eastern churches who fled into Europe from the Islamic conquerors of the time. The route was not the Roman Church. The Greek texts were used to correct the Latin Vulgate. Wikipedia has:
Tyndale's translation was the first English Bible to draw directly from Hebrew and Greek ... The Roman Church was the repository of the writings of the early Church Fathers I suppose. Or maybe even copies of those came along with the Eastern priests. Being a repository doesn't make those writings Roman Catholic. The early church had plenty of doctrine for the Protestant Reformers to draw on that doesn't support the Roman corruptions. They also had contact with groups like the Waldensians who had been dissidents from the RCC from very early times, having their settlements high in the Alps. And they had their own Bibles.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5948 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5 |
Yeah, well fuck you too!
But we all know Jesus wasn't born in the winter, and sheep on the hillsides at night is a clue that He wasn't. Yeah, well duh and fuck you too! We already said that!
Christmas is just an opportunity to celebrate His birth since we don't know when it was, and it displaced some pagan celebrations which was a plus. Yeah, well duh and fuck you too! We already said that!
The Solstice hardly even enters into a Christian's mind. Now this begs the age-old question: Does anything ever enter a Christian's mind?
I always take note of it myself just because even though we're headed into real winter and it may be pretty miserable, I like to notice how the days are getting longer as a cheery note in the midst of it. So why do you try to minimalize it to nothing?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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I didn't mean to be insulting you, why are you so angry? I know you had just mentioned the fact that sheep don't graze at night in winter, I was just echoing you. It may not have sounded like that, I didn't write it very well, and part of it was that I thought you might not know I knew that, but mainly I just meant to be saying yes to your statement.
All I was saying about the Solstice is that Christians don't celebrate it and although I keep track of the lengthening days that's not a celebration either, it's therapy for my Seasonal Affective Disorder or something like that. Please, cheer up. It's supposed to be a cheery season and I really had no intention of insulting you. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
NoNukes writes:
The "traditional meaning" is what Dickens used. "Most people" have lost the link that was traditionally there. ... but most people understand that the link is not part of the traditional meaning. There's more of wassail than of Christ in "Merry". (On the other hand, Jesus did turn water into wassail.)
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Theodoric writes:
More wining, less whining!
... it seems the ones whining do not feel the same way.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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More wining, less whining! and Cheeses, you can't fully celebrate without inviting Cheeses into your home. by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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is "I'll be home for Christmas" hands down.
It captures the focus on family getting together and the sad/poignant feeling those who are away from home have. Another historical note for Percy -- it was written for (WW1 iirc) soldiers in the trenches of war. Something we still have, sadly. I send it out to all our troops in foreign lands ... and anyone else that is missing family this season.
Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8529 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Your song has nothing to do with the birth of the Savior. It is a secular screed with secular notions and secular emotions. It is just another shot at christians in the ongoing War On Christmas.
Mine is quite different. It speaks of tragedy, belief, healing, overcoming personal struggle and a warning to friends and neighbors, a witness to any that have the heart to hear. And it actually says "Merry Christmas" at the end. KABOOM! right back at you!
In the true Christmas Spirit. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
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Jon Inactive Member
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One of the few times Faith agrees with someone else on this forum regarding religion and she gets told to go fuck herself.
To actually quote Charlie Brown: Good grief!Love your enemies!
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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Oh no problem, Jon. I didn't make myself very clear so dw couldn't have known what I meant.
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