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Author Topic:   Jesus and his sacrifice is Satanís test of manís morality.
jar
Member
Posts: 29441
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 391 of 478 (776351)
01-12-2016 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 388 by Faith
01-12-2016 11:22 AM


Of course it's not "Bible inerrancy or nothing."
Of course it's not "Bible inerrancy or nothing."

In case you hadn't noticed, God gave us a brain and kinda expects us to use it.

To think that it is "Bible inerrancy or nothing." you must totally disregard what is actually written as well as all the history of Christianity.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by Faith, posted 01-12-2016 11:22 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26449
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 392 of 478 (776352)
01-12-2016 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 390 by Tangle
01-12-2016 11:32 AM


Re: Christian? violence
It's very hard to have a conversation with someone who knows as little of the history in question as you do, and who insists on the bogus propagandist histories publically available. Your quotes about the wars of the Old Testament mean nothing if the Bible wasn't even read by the majority of "Christians" you accuse of committing violence. The OT remains a history of ancient events.

One thing you really ought to know already, however, because it's pretty much common knowledge, is that there was a very long period when the RCC actually condemned the reading of the Bible in the vernacular. That's basically the entire Dark Ages.

They persecuted and put to death those who went around preaching the gospel from the Bible, and particularly those who translated it into the people's languages, such as Wycliffe and Tyndale. I would have thought this was common knowledge. The priests had access to the Latin Bible but it seems they often didn't much make use of it, preferring the pagan writer Aristotle.

The great rediscovery of the Reformation was the Bible itself that had been kept from the people for centuries, while silly superstitions were taught in its place -- the worship of Mary and prayer to her and the other "saints," many of whom had been carried over from Roman gods, the value of "relics," the deceit that you could get someone out of a nonexistent "purgatory" by paying money etc. The idea that the Inquisition or the Crusades or any other violence by the RCC was based on the Bible is sheer fantasy.

Here's a history of the RCC that could put some of this in proper perspective for anyone interested in the truth: The History of Romanism by J. Dowling.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 390 by Tangle, posted 01-12-2016 11:32 AM Tangle has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26449
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 393 of 478 (776353)
01-12-2016 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 379 by Aussie
01-11-2016 1:05 PM


Re: misrepresentation
Wow, but you don't think you are making me into a Jew ripe for the slaughter? Wow, just wow.

My view of the Bible represents the entire Protestant movement since the Reformation, though my defense of Bible Protestantism is pretty paltry compared to the big names I admire. You are attacking the greatest of the great with your surly moralisms. I don't know how many of the true defenders of Bible inerrancy still survive after the onslaughts of all the apostate theologies but we may still be in the millions. We defend the authenticity of the Bible as the true report of God's doings in the world, none of which has ever influenced a single Christian to the actions you so denounce, but should the Inquisition resurface again, which really could happen (it persists underground in various Catholic countries), we'll be the first to go and you can pat yourself on the back for being an instigator of such goodness in the world.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by Aussie, posted 01-11-2016 1:05 PM Aussie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 394 by Aussie, posted 01-12-2016 1:58 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Aussie
Member
Posts: 122
From: Sanford, FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 394 of 478 (776362)
01-12-2016 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 393 by Faith
01-12-2016 12:07 PM


Re: misrepresentation
Wow, but you don't think you are making me into a Jew ripe for the slaughter? Wow, just wow.

No Faith, It is YOU that is defending the slaughter of babies,right? Remember the NAZIs were the ones approving the killing of children and babies, like you are right now. We are the ones telling you this is evil and entirely unjust. I hate it when people play the NAZI card and I try to avoid it, but you've said it twice now. YOU are the spiritual NAZI, not us.

You are attacking the greatest of the great with your surly moralisms.

Remember my "surly moralism" is: Don't ever kill a child or baby on purpose. You call this a surly moralism. Shame on you if you had any. Part of you is broken, Faith.


"...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 393 by Faith, posted 01-12-2016 12:07 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 396 by Admin, posted 01-12-2016 2:39 PM Aussie has responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9997
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 395 of 478 (776363)
01-12-2016 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 388 by Faith
01-12-2016 11:22 AM


Re: Rationalizing Killing
If the Bible could have been manipulated to legitimize the actions of "misquided followers and malicious pretenders" there is no reason to take the Bible seriously at all. It's Bible inerrancy or nothing.

This is indeed the corner that all Bible inerrant literalists carve out for themselves. I suspect we could quote any number of dwise1 posts from the past where he pointed out this situation.

Here Message 34 is an example quote from 2007:

quote:
To my mind, the problem is not about God or the Bible. It's about these people's theology, their Man-made theology. Evolution doesn't disprove God nor the Bible, but rather their Man-made theology. And it's their fallible Man-made theology that demands that their YEC interpretation be true (which it is not even remotely) or else the Bible is false and should be thrown in the trash and God does not exist.

Your cage is of your own making. Neither the Bible nor Jesus require that you live in that prison. You've done it to yourself.

Edited by NoNukes, : Fix quote error


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by Faith, posted 01-12-2016 11:22 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 399 by Faith, posted 01-12-2016 4:57 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
Admin
Director
Posts: 12533
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 396 of 478 (776365)
01-12-2016 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 394 by Aussie
01-12-2016 1:58 PM


Moderator Request
Please, let's not get personal.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by Aussie, posted 01-12-2016 1:58 PM Aussie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 397 by Aussie, posted 01-12-2016 4:15 PM Admin has acknowledged this reply

    
Aussie
Member
Posts: 122
From: Sanford, FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 397 of 478 (776377)
01-12-2016 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 396 by Admin
01-12-2016 2:39 PM


Re: Moderator Request
Admin,

Thanks and I apologize. I was trying my best no to attack her personally, and I'll try much more carefully in the future. I know she would never hurt a child in reality, I told her this much, but I've never had a conversation where someone has so coldly defended the killing of children so...emotions.

But in no way do I want to violate forum guidelines.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 396 by Admin, posted 01-12-2016 2:39 PM Admin has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 398 by Faith, posted 01-12-2016 4:52 PM Aussie has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26449
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 398 of 478 (776388)
01-12-2016 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 397 by Aussie
01-12-2016 4:15 PM


Re: Moderator Request
The problem is that you insist on equating my defense of the sovereignty of God with the idea that I coldly defend the killing of children. No, I'm refusing to give in to your spurious equation. All I'm doing is defending the sovereignty of God and the inerrancy of the Bible.

Your position is sort of like saying if I have a pet cat and coolly defend my right to have the cat and the cat's right to exist, and to have its own natural instincts, I must therefore cold-bloodedly hate birds and mice.

It sounds like you believe your equation to the point that you'd happily dispatch me with your own hands.

No, I believe in God, I know Him to be nothing but good and all His judgments righteous, including the judgments that scare me. It's YOU who turn all this into an accusation of me. It has nothing to do with me.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 397 by Aussie, posted 01-12-2016 4:15 PM Aussie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 400 by Aussie, posted 01-12-2016 5:00 PM Faith has responded
 Message 402 by Tangle, posted 01-12-2016 5:05 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26449
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 399 of 478 (776390)
01-12-2016 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 395 by NoNukes
01-12-2016 2:19 PM


Re: Rationalizing Killing
The only cage is the cage YOU all invent by your disdain of the idea of Biblical inerrancy. YOU all can twist it into something that would put a noose around my neck. YOUR definitions and judgments are a cage. Nothing I believe in itself has that problem.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 395 by NoNukes, posted 01-12-2016 2:19 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
Aussie
Member
Posts: 122
From: Sanford, FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 400 of 478 (776393)
01-12-2016 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 398 by Faith
01-12-2016 4:52 PM


Re: Moderator Request
Hi Faith,

If Admin feels I got too personal with you, I apologize to you.

It sounds like you believe your equation to the point that you'd happily dispatch me with your own hands.

No Faith. No no no no! My point is I do not want to hurt you. Not at all. Not ever. You in no way deserve any kind of hurt or pain, and if I could help protect you from that, I would.

I am simply horrified that you do not give the lives of infants and children in the Bible the same compassion.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 398 by Faith, posted 01-12-2016 4:52 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 401 by Faith, posted 01-12-2016 5:03 PM Aussie has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26449
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 401 of 478 (776395)
01-12-2016 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 400 by Aussie
01-12-2016 5:00 PM


Re: Moderator Request
I am simply horrified that you do not give the lives of infants and children in the Bible the same compassion.

Then you are insisting on maintaining the same false thinking that would dispatch me with your own hands. It is YOU who say I lack this compassion based on your spurious logic. What I'm doing is refusing to allow you any justification for your equation. You are turning my theological position into a personal accusation. YOU are doing that.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by Aussie, posted 01-12-2016 5:00 PM Aussie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 406 by Aussie, posted 01-12-2016 5:22 PM Faith has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5101
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 402 of 478 (776396)
01-12-2016 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 398 by Faith
01-12-2016 4:52 PM


Re: Moderator Request
Faith writes:

The problem is that you insist on equating my defense of the sovereignty of God with the idea that I coldly defend the killing of children.

That's because you defend god's right to kill children if he sees fit.

It's quite simple really. Nobody is saying you think it alright to kill children - you just make god a special case - you make him a lessor god, a god with lower moral values than your own.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 398 by Faith, posted 01-12-2016 4:52 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 403 by Faith, posted 01-12-2016 5:07 PM Tangle has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26449
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 403 of 478 (776397)
01-12-2016 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 402 by Tangle
01-12-2016 5:05 PM


Re: Moderator Request
It's amazing that you can't see how you are imposing a cheap shallow moralism of your own on this issue.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 402 by Tangle, posted 01-12-2016 5:05 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 404 by Aussie, posted 01-12-2016 5:13 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 405 by Tangle, posted 01-12-2016 5:19 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Aussie
Member
Posts: 122
From: Sanford, FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 404 of 478 (776398)
01-12-2016 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 403 by Faith
01-12-2016 5:07 PM


Re: Moderator Request
So saying it's wrong to slaughter children is a "Cheap shallow moralism?"

Faith...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 403 by Faith, posted 01-12-2016 5:07 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5101
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 405 of 478 (776399)
01-12-2016 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 403 by Faith
01-12-2016 5:07 PM


Re: Moderator Request
Faith writes:

It's amazing that you can't see how you are imposing a cheap moral opinion of your own on this issue.

I don't think you really mean that. I think you're just huffing and puffing.

You are saying that it's ok for god to kill children, yet he tells us 'Thou shalt not kill'. So what is this? Do as i say, not as I do?

The problem here is that god tells us what is right and wrong, but does what both he and you believe to be wrong - killing children. So god is evil. Or it's just a story from its time.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 403 by Faith, posted 01-12-2016 5:07 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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