Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 107 (8805 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 12-13-2017 4:08 AM
342 online now:
PaulK, Pressie (2 members, 340 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: jaufre
Post Volume:
Total: 824,061 Year: 28,667/21,208 Month: 733/1,847 Week: 108/475 Day: 1/17 Hour: 0/1

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
1112
13
14151617Next
Author Topic:   The Bundys and the Armed Occupation of a National Wildlife Refuge
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1592
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 181 of 254 (791813)
09-21-2016 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Tanypteryx
09-20-2016 10:52 AM


Re: Week 2 testimony
Mark McConnell, man driving Jeep before Ammon Bundy's arrest, was informant, testimony reveals

Deborah Jordan Caught the Malheur Takeover on Camera. Now Her Footage is At the Center of the Bundy Trial.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-20-2016 10:52 AM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-24-2016 12:53 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1592
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 182 of 254 (791873)
09-24-2016 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Tanypteryx
09-21-2016 11:34 PM


Re: Week 2 testimony
Refuge trial: Rancher describes his view of the Malheur occupation

quote:
In the days that followed, Dunbar watched the occupation play out from his ranch. He said those at the refuge appeared to secure a perimeter, placing men armed with long guns at the front gate. Dunbar said he saw people in a nearby watchtower. Looking through binoculars, Dunbar claimed to see a person in the tower pointing a gun in his direction.

Inviting wrath of judge may be part of a calculated approach by Ammon Bundy's lawyer

quote:
Since the Bundy trial began two weeks ago, the judge has repeatedly told Mumford to follow her rulings, reword his questions to government witnesses and occasionally to either stand up when he addresses her or sit down and stop challenging her directives.

quote:
Despite the judge's warnings that she didn't want any defendant or defense lawyer to ask witnesses about the circumstances surrounding the fatal police shooting of occupation spokesman Robert "LaVoy" Finicum, Mumford passed off as a question a stinging remark that Finicum was shot three times in the back, asked another witness how close police were to him when he was shot and why the FBI wasn't investigating the shooting.

Each time, prosecutors objected. Each time, the judge asked jurors to disregard Mumford's bids to get around her edicts.

Out of earshot of the jury, Brown on Thursday had enough.

She threatened Mumford with contempt of court if he continued to delve into Finicum's shooting. She told him she'd fine him $1,000 for each time he continued to violate her orders.


First Malheur Occupier Sentenced To Probation

quote:
The sentence comes after Willingham pleaded guilty in April to theft of government property as part of a plea deal with federal prosecutors. Willingham agreed not to contact defendants in the ongoing trial of Bundy and six other occupiers as part of his plea deal, but his lawyer emphasized that Willingham was not a government informant and did not testify against the Bundys.

Willingham made headlines when he turned himself in to Grant County police in March. At that time, he threatened to shoot federal law enforcement officers if he was not jailed within a day.


This isn't testimony from the trial, but an interesting study of how these nutjobs affected the community.

Bundys did damage in Burns as well as at refuge, UO prof says.

quote:
UO geography professor Peter Walker, who is writing a book about the militia’s effect on Burns, sat among town residents as members of the group marched into the gymnasium, their guns in plain sight. Ammon Bundy, one of the leaders, silently took a seat in the bleachers as his men spread to every corner of the gymnasium.

“I realized they were tactically positioning themselves for a firefight,” Walker said.

Steve Grasty, the Harney County judge, halted the meeting he was presiding over and walked up to Bundy.

“You have caused too much suffering in this community,” Grasty said. “You need to go home.”

Community members rose to their feet and began to echo Grasty’s demand.

“Go home. Go home. Go home,” people chanted in unison.



What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-21-2016 11:34 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1592
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 183 of 254 (792047)
10-01-2016 2:18 PM


Week 3: the Defence
FBI sent two agents into Mormon church in Burns as part of refuge takeover investigation

quote:
The FBI sent two agents to attend religious services at a Mormon church in Burns on Jan. 10 as part of its investigation into the takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, according to court testimony Wednesday.

FBI Agent Ben Jones, who belongs to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, said he told his supervisors that if he goes to the church, "I was going to go as who I was.''


Defense warned to ‘get it together’ in Malheur trial

quote:
Judge Brown was visibly frustrated with the defense’s unkempt presentation of witness testimony and told them to “get it together” early in the day.

Despite nearly constant objections on behalf of the prosecution, defense lawyers managed to present jurors with evidence previously unknown in the case, including testimony that the FBI sent 2 agents to a Mormon church in Burns as part of its investigation into the refuge takeover.


Judge inclined to dismiss firearms charge against defendant Shawna Cox

quote:
U.S. District Judge Anna J. Brown wasn't convinced Thursday that prosecutors have provided enough evidence to support the charge of firearm possession in a federal facility against defendant Shawna Cox.

She said the government must point to specific proof "beyond that she's a good conspirator.''


Ammon Bundy's lawyers file motion seeking halt to trial while appeals are pending

quote:
Ammon Bundy on Wednesday filed a motion to put the trial on hold, pending his appeals of several of the judge's rulings in the federal conspiracy trial.

But even as the motion was filed, his lawyer Marcus Mumford told the court that he anticipated calling Bundy as a witness for the defense if time allows on Thursday.


quote:
His lawyers cite U.S. District Judge Anna J. Brown's order that the ownership of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge is not on trial in this case, and her judicial notice to jurors that the federal government owns the bird sanctuary in eastern Oregon.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1592
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(4)
Message 184 of 254 (792399)
10-08-2016 7:44 PM


Ammon Bundy testifies
When the Bundys first appeared on the news in Oregon we could see videos of them blatantly breaking numerous laws with seeming impunity.
their poster child leader, Ammon, claims it was just a peaceful protest and he has been treated unfairly and it hurts his feelings.

At the time I thought they were providing plenty of evidence to hang themselves, but now I am not so sure that they will get the punishment the deserve. If they don't get lengthy prison sentences I am sure that we will see them commit more crimes. These jerks really believe that they are special and have the "right" to steal public land from the rest of us.

If Trump is elected he and republican politicians will help them do it.

Ammon Bundy takes the stand in Oregon wildlife refuge standoff trial

Prosecutor Cross-Examines Ammon Bundy For 15 Minutes

Does Ammon Bundy's 10-hour testimony help or hurt his case in Oregon standoff trial?

U.S. marshals end Ammon Bundy's contact visits with lawyers in courthouse over 'disrespect'


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


    
ThinAirDesigns
Member
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


(2)
Message 185 of 254 (793398)
10-27-2016 8:14 PM


Innocent Verdict
WOW!

JB


Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-27-2016 11:05 PM ThinAirDesigns has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1592
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(3)
Message 186 of 254 (793399)
10-27-2016 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by ThinAirDesigns
10-27-2016 8:14 PM


Re: Innocent Verdict
I am speechless..............

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 10-27-2016 8:14 PM ThinAirDesigns has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by RAZD, posted 10-28-2016 7:48 AM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19295
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 187 of 254 (793403)
10-28-2016 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by Tanypteryx
10-27-2016 11:05 PM


Re: Innocent Verdict
I am speechless..............

I'm sure Donald will have something to say ...


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-27-2016 11:05 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3428
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


(1)
Message 188 of 254 (793420)
10-28-2016 2:18 PM


Shocked!

Incredible! Surreal!

But, that is the verdict of the jury in a US federal court and not only must such be accepted but must be respected.

The seven are innocent of conspiracy.


  
ThinAirDesigns
Member
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 189 of 254 (793424)
10-28-2016 3:07 PM


Jury Nullification
Clearly a case of Jury nullification -- a principle that I respect (though I can't imagine I would have done such in this case).

JB


Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by RAZD, posted 10-28-2016 4:07 PM ThinAirDesigns has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19295
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 190 of 254 (793427)
10-28-2016 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by ThinAirDesigns
10-28-2016 3:07 PM


Re: Jury Nullification
Jury nullification
quote:
Jury nullification is a finding by a trial jury in favour of the defendant, in contradiction to the jury's belief about the facts of the case. This may happen in both civil and criminal trials. In a civil trial, a jury nullifies by finding a defendant not liable, even though members of the jury may believe the defendant is liable. In a criminal trial, a jury nullifies by acquitting a defendant, even though the members of the jury may believe that the defendant did the illegal act, but they do not believe he/she should be punished for it. This may occur when members of the jury disagree with the law the defendant has been charged with breaking, or believe that the law should not be applied in that particular case. ...

Interesting, so the law is on trial rather than the defendants.

Guess the got a jury of their peers.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 10-28-2016 3:07 PM ThinAirDesigns has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29758
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


(3)
Message 191 of 254 (793429)
10-28-2016 4:11 PM


Why it is important
Frankly this is a very significant decision since it is a clear reflection of an attitude exemplified in Il Donald's candidacy and may portend a similar shock come November 9th.

There really is a large current today of folk that see the Government as the enemy and that support both the Bundys, Trump and the whole principle of direct opposition even when done by force.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Diomedes, posted 10-31-2016 10:09 AM jar has responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 669
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 6.7


(4)
Message 192 of 254 (793498)
10-31-2016 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by jar
10-28-2016 4:11 PM


Re: Why it is important
There really is a large current today of folk that see the Government as the enemy and that support both the Bundys, Trump and the whole principle of direct opposition even when done by force.

Except that these hillbilly's and their knuckle-dragging supporters are also gigantic hypocrites. I would love to see how they would react if BlackLivesMatter performed an armed takeover of a Federal building. They would be screaming at the top of their lungs about 'terrorists' and the need to 'take them out'.

So in their eyes, if you are white, Republican, and an NRA member, you should be allowed to perform armed resistance against government 'oppression'. But if anyone of color does it, well, they are terrorists.

Makes me realize we took an incorrect approach during the Bush presidency. We shouldn't have been pushing a constitutional amendment against gay marriage. We should have created one that prevented brother and sister from marrying and creating a batch of inbred cretins.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by jar, posted 10-28-2016 4:11 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by jar, posted 10-31-2016 4:13 PM Diomedes has not yet responded
 Message 194 by NoNukes, posted 10-31-2016 9:04 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29758
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 193 of 254 (793510)
10-31-2016 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Diomedes
10-31-2016 10:09 AM


Re: Why it is important
Diomedes writes:

So in their eyes, if you are white, Republican, and an NRA member, you should be allowed to perform armed resistance against government 'oppression'. But if anyone of color does it, well, they are terrorists.

Correct. And a very common position particularly in the US.

No Irish.

No Jews.

No blacks.

No gays.

No transgender.

No queers.

No retards.

No Indians.

No not like me.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Diomedes, posted 10-31-2016 10:09 AM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10116
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 194 of 254 (793517)
10-31-2016 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Diomedes
10-31-2016 10:09 AM


Re: Why it is important
We shouldn't have been pushing a constitutional amendment against gay marriage.

Lol!! We who?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Diomedes, posted 10-31-2016 10:09 AM Diomedes has not yet responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1592
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 195 of 254 (793524)
10-31-2016 10:15 PM


I'll bet the ones who plead guilty are pissed.

Sorry I have not been very active the last few weeks, work and an excruciating kidney infection have been limiting all my activities. Well, and I haven't had any snappy commentary in the face of this miscarriage of justice.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


    
RewPrev1
...
1112
13
14151617Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017