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Author Topic:   People ARE Mixing the Gospels Together!
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 121 of 280 (779960)
03-10-2016 3:15 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by Bob Bobber
03-10-2016 2:17 AM


Re: When the earth was in the first heaven
Let's call God El, but the problem El faces is having a relationship with the living beings on the earth, when El was the light source of the earth.
  • This is NONSENSE, Bob.
  • Why call God El for starters? I have this awful feeling you are going to treat El as different from Yahweh? I hope not. Anyway, both are names for the same God, El is the generic name used by the peoples of the Middle East, and Yahweh (I prefer Jehovah myself) is the Name God uses in His Covenant with Israel. But they are the same God.
  • And why would God have any kind of problem relating to the beings He Himself created? Scripture is clear that Adam had a close relationship with God before the Fall.
  • And what on earth does it mean to say "El was the light source of the earth?" El needed no light source. And if He'd already created Adam and Eve He'd also already created the sun, moon and stars.
Now El’s body is composed of a substance called spirit, and the life he has within himself produces some kind of light that his body cannot contain. His power may be everywhere, but not his body.
This is what Yahweh used in the garden to talk to Adam.
  • As I already said, God does not have a body. He IS Spirit, He is everywhere at once.
  • Scripture says Jesus is the light of this world. God is light in Himself. It's not a light we see with our physical eyes, but a spiritual light that will be visible to our spirits when we have left this life. And He in Himself in His totality IS everywhere. Jesus became man so He does have a body and His body isn't everywhere but His Spirit is.
  • Why would God need to "use" a particular light source in order to talk to Adam? Adam had a spiritual nature before the Fall that could communicate with God directly.
Ezekiel, a prophet of Yahweh, he had a remarkable vision, he saw Yahweh riding on a kind of throne chariot. Yahweh’s enthroned above four magnificent creatures. Each of these has a human body and then four faces: the face of a human, the face of a lion, the face of an ox, and the face of an eagle. There are four huge wheels under this throned chariot, and they are said to gleam like beryl beneath a vast and awe-inspiring expanse or dome, which gleams like crystal.
Above that is the semblance of a throne that is like sapphire, and on the throne was the semblance of a human form that’s gleaming like amber, and its fire encased in a frame, which is radiant all about. This fire that’s encased, is in a cloud that contains or hides the fire that is Yahweh’s presence.
God often gave His prophets visions of Himself, that I think we are to take as symbolic expressions of His nature. But really I have no idea why you are recounting Ezekiel's vision.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-10-2016 2:17 AM Bob Bobber has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-10-2016 3:51 AM Faith has replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2936 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 122 of 280 (779961)
03-10-2016 3:51 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by Faith
03-10-2016 3:15 AM


Re: When the earth was in the first heaven
Yahweh was clearly established when the earth was in the second heaven. But in the first heaven we are dealing with El, and he does indeed have a body. Interesting how many religion teachings get blown out of the water. Study the different usages of the word 'spirit'.
Now El is going to create the earth in the middle of this structure (what structure), but El from his throne in the north of the north (what is the north of the north), he is going to be the light source of the earth. But how can El visit the earth and have a relationship with the beings living on that earth and still maintain the light source of the earth?
Edited by Bob Bobber, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Faith, posted 03-10-2016 3:15 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Faith, posted 03-10-2016 4:58 AM Bob Bobber has replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 123 of 280 (779962)
03-10-2016 4:21 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Bob Bobber
03-06-2016 9:19 PM


Re: Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
This fundie fight is fun!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-06-2016 9:19 PM Bob Bobber has replied

Replies to this message:
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Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2936 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 124 of 280 (779964)
03-10-2016 4:48 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
03-09-2016 12:20 AM


Re: The Gospel According To Paul the Apostle.
It is cool how God can now totally accept people even though people are sinful, because all sin has been paid for once and for all. God is not looking at us in the practical since of our sinfulness, but in the identity of being in his son, that’s how we can be holy and without blame before him in love. 

Satan wants to blind people’s eyes to the truth of Paul’s good news. Satan is offering people a way to become righteous; to achieve a righteous standing before God, and he always attaches people’s performance; people’s fingerprints are found on Satan’s method of becoming righteous.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 03-09-2016 12:20 AM Phat has not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2936 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 125 of 280 (779965)
03-10-2016 4:53 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by NoNukes
03-06-2016 11:20 PM


Nonukes, sorry it took so long.
It seems he did, but there are a lot of missing around going on, if you know what I mean. I took out something that makes no since, some kind of superiority teaching that seems to be added to Hebrews?
Hebrews 1:1-3:15;
From of old, Yahweh spoke to the Israelites fathers by the prophets in every manner, and in all ways; but in these later days, Yahweh has conversed with us, by his son; whom Yahweh has constituted heir of all things, and when Yeshua made a purgation of sins, then Yeshua sat down on the right hand of Yahweh. Wherefore, my brethren, who are called with a calling that is from heaven, consider this high priest of our profession, Yeshua the Messiah; because Yahweh has said, O, if you would but heed my charge this day; do not be stubborn as at Meribah, in the wilderness, when your fathers put me to the test, tried me, though they had seen my deeds.
Forty years I was provoked by that generation; I thought, they are a senseless people; they would not know my ways. Concerning them, I swore in anger, they shall never come to my resting-place! Beware, therefore, my brethren, lest there be in any of us an evil heart that believes not, and we depart from the living Yahweh; but we need to examine ourselves all the days, during the day which is called today; and let none of us be hardened, through the deceitfulness of sin; for we have part with the Messiah, if we persevere in this firm confidence, from the beginning to the end; as it was said, O, if you would but heed my charge this day. Do not harden your hearts to anger Yahweh.
Hebrews 1:4-2:18; 3:2-6 is what was left out?
I don't know where you stand on this subject, sorry for taking do long to answer you, it is a trippy subject.
Edited by Bob Bobber, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2936 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 126 of 280 (779966)
03-10-2016 4:58 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by Pressie
03-10-2016 4:21 AM


when the earth was in the first heaven
It is fun, doctrines die hard when the first heaven is reasoned out?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Pressie, posted 03-10-2016 4:21 AM Pressie has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 127 of 280 (779967)
03-10-2016 4:58 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Bob Bobber
03-10-2016 3:51 AM


Re: When the earth was in the first heaven
Yahweh was clearly established when the earth was in the second heaven.
I realize I'm wasting my breath, but it's hard to resist answering heretics.
Yahweh "clearly established" is another bit of nonsense. This name (or Jehovah) didn't exist in anybody's knowledge until He gave it to Moses.
Earth being in the second heaven is nonsense, or the first heaven or any heaven at all. God created the heavens AND the earth in Genesis 1, as separate things.
But in the first heaven we are dealing with El, and he does indeed have a body. Interesting how many religion teachings get blown out of the water. Study the different usages of the word 'spirit'.
Yeah, heresies are really good at blowing truth out of the water. But of course how is anyone going to judge between what you are saying and what I am saying anyway, unless they already know the truth of the Bible? I'm trying to accurately convey the historical Protestant Reformation teachings as I've learned them, but if people don't know anything about any of it, why should they take what I say seriously? I guess if anybody REALLY wants to know they can do their own study of the scriptures and historical writings, but not many are likely to do that.
Sigh. You've got two Gods here now, inhabiting different heavens, and how you came up with this nonsense I can't fathom. Have you forgotten that scripture says there is only ONE God?
Now El is going to create the earth in the middle of this structure (what structure), but El from his throne in the north of the north (what is the north of the north), he is going to be the light source of the earth. But how can El visit the earth and have a relationship with the beings living on that earth and still maintain the light source of the earth?
Perhaps you should try to gather together a following and start your own religion? This one sure has nothing to do with Biblical Christianity. Now I'm amazed that you seemed to have such a good grasp of salvation by grace rather than works. Maybe that was an illusion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-10-2016 3:51 AM Bob Bobber has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-10-2016 5:03 AM Faith has replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2936 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 128 of 280 (779968)
03-10-2016 5:03 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Faith
03-10-2016 4:58 AM


Re: When the earth was in the first heaven
My reasonings are sound so far, don't know it all, but it can be reasoned out. The age of grace is one thing, this is something else. You cannot drag religion into this, because this story is in the Bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Faith, posted 03-10-2016 4:58 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Faith, posted 03-10-2016 5:21 AM Bob Bobber has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 129 of 280 (779969)
03-10-2016 5:21 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by Bob Bobber
03-10-2016 5:03 AM


Re: When the earth was in the first heaven
Bob, you haven't given any of your reasoning at all. You've presented your conclusions without any support whatever. I just figured you are incapable of presenting a reasoned argument so I haven't pushed you. You've not given any reason whatever for accepting your different heavens and the position of the earth in them or two Gods or any of it. I'm not asking you to, the whole scenario you've concocted is absolute rubbish.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-10-2016 5:03 AM Bob Bobber has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-10-2016 9:30 AM Faith has not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2936 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 130 of 280 (779986)
03-10-2016 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Faith
03-10-2016 5:21 AM


Re: When the earth was in the first heaven
I think I see why this is rubbish to you, would you be one of those three-in-oner's? But don't say there are two Gods, just he has two names, but El is his name in the first heaven.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Faith, posted 03-10-2016 5:21 AM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 131 of 280 (779991)
03-10-2016 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Bob Bobber
03-09-2016 12:22 PM


Re: When the earth was in the first heaven
I asked you how Lucifer could force God to do anything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-09-2016 12:22 PM Bob Bobber has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-10-2016 10:45 AM ringo has replied
 Message 159 by NoNukes, posted 03-10-2016 12:35 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 132 of 280 (779992)
03-10-2016 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Bob Bobber
03-09-2016 3:38 PM


Re: When the earth was in the first heaven
Bob Bobber writes:
Maybe Lucifer flooded the earth when it was in the first heaven just to see what his Creator would do.
Lucifer didn't flood the earth. God did.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-09-2016 3:38 PM Bob Bobber has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-10-2016 10:46 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied
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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 133 of 280 (779993)
03-10-2016 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Phat
03-09-2016 11:34 PM


Re: When the earth was in the first heaven
Phat writes:
God allowed evil to exist....
Why?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Phat, posted 03-09-2016 11:34 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2936 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 134 of 280 (779995)
03-10-2016 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by ringo
03-10-2016 10:36 AM


Re: When the earth was in the first heaven
Once Lucifer took over the earth while it was in the first heaven, El was forced to light the earth while Lucifer and his clan did whatever they wanted. Forced in that sense?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by ringo, posted 03-10-2016 10:36 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by ringo, posted 03-10-2016 10:46 AM Bob Bobber has replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2936 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 135 of 280 (779997)
03-10-2016 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by ringo
03-10-2016 10:38 AM


Re: When the earth was in the first heaven
Not when the earth was in the first heaven, Lucifer caused that flood (Gen. 1:1).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by ringo, posted 03-10-2016 10:38 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
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