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Author Topic:   The Marketing Of Christianity
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 181 of 591 (787593)
07-18-2016 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by GDR
07-18-2016 4:21 PM


Re: Faith vs Evidence and the fruits to know truth by.
GDR writes:
Sure. The question I'm debating is why that evolutionary process came into existence.
No you're not, you're equating a belief in God with a belief in evolution. You know better than to do that - god knows it's been explained often enough to you - but you revert to dogma every time.
Wrong. There is a biog difference between reading about people suffering in Africa and feeling sorry for them as opposed to feeling sorry for them and opening up your wallet and doing something about
There is no difference at all. Feeling sorry is the instictive, primitive, universal, human reaction. Doing something about it engages a younger part of our brain that deals in rational thinking. Some people conclude that nothing can be done, others dig wells, some bung a few quid their way to salve their concsience, others attempt to convert them in order to save their souls and buy themselves a place in heaven.
Sociopaths excluded, we all feel the same but have different ways of coping with it.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by GDR, posted 07-18-2016 4:21 PM GDR has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 182 of 591 (788635)
08-02-2016 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by jar
04-06-2016 4:04 PM


Re: prayer and fasting.
jar writes:
Please explain how prayer or fasting feeds the hungry, clothes the naked, shelters the homeless, comforts the sorrowful, heals the sick, educates the children or anything else...
Because prayer and fasting denies the flesh and willfully feeds the Spirit living within us. Jesus showed us examples of this practice.
... that simply feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, sheltering the homeless, comforting the sorrowful, healing the sick, educating the children (what you do for the least...)
I am not suggesting that we are not called to simply do the work. What I am asserting is that you will get closer to knowing the mind and heart of God through prayer and fasting if you desire to also do those things anyway.
So are you claiming that Christians are unable to see that there are people that are hungry. naked. homeless, sorrowful, sick and ignorant without being told
Not exactly. We know that there is work to be done and that we are charged to do it. Some of us would rather go watch a movie or feed our flesh and carnal appetite some other way rather than help others. Prayer and fasting breaks that bondage.
... or that Christians should only be feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, sheltering the homeless, comforting the sorrowful, healing the sick, educating the children that they are designated through prayer and fasting?
Again, it is not a strict order from God that we are to pray and fast. it is a command to do what you have suggested. I am only saying that prayer and fasting will break carnal bondage and strengthen you to be in this world but not of it.
What, other than marketing, does prayer or fasting add?
A closer walk with the Spirit and less of a bondage from the flesh.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by jar, posted 04-06-2016 4:04 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by jar, posted 08-02-2016 7:58 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 185 by Tangle, posted 08-03-2016 3:53 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 186 by NoNukes, posted 08-03-2016 8:43 AM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 183 of 591 (788638)
08-02-2016 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by Phat
08-02-2016 7:24 PM


Re: prayer and fasting.
Read what you wrote Phat. It is all just word salad and not one of your responses actually addressed the questions asked except as bumper sticker platitudes with no real meaning.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Phat, posted 08-02-2016 7:24 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-02-2016 8:52 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 184 of 591 (788639)
08-02-2016 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by jar
08-02-2016 7:58 PM


Re: prayer and fasting.
I thought that said prayer and farting....nevermind.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by jar, posted 08-02-2016 7:58 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 185 of 591 (788645)
08-03-2016 3:53 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by Phat
08-02-2016 7:24 PM


Re: prayer and fasting.
Phat writes:
Because prayer and fasting denies the flesh and willfully feeds the Spirit living within us.
What???

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Phat, posted 08-02-2016 7:24 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 186 of 591 (788649)
08-03-2016 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by Phat
08-02-2016 7:24 PM


Re: prayer and fasting.
Because prayer and fasting denies the flesh and willfully feeds the Spirit living within us. Jesus showed us examples of this practice
Jesus did recommend prayer and fasting. But did Jesus ever indicate that doing so helped feed the poor or shelter the homeless? No. He told us that doing so was our own responsibility. You aren't suppose to simply pray and fast in order to get a mystical visit to folks in prison, you are supposed to take your butt to the big house.
Jesus commanded us to do those things in unambiguous terms. Prayer and fasting works on you as a person. But it does not fill someone else's hungry belly.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Phat, posted 08-02-2016 7:24 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by jar, posted 08-03-2016 8:55 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 191 by Phat, posted 08-07-2016 4:53 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 187 of 591 (788650)
08-03-2016 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by NoNukes
08-03-2016 8:43 AM


Re: prayer and fasting.
Two of the main purposes of prayer and fasting are setting aside time for introspection, for examining YOUR past behavior and deciding how to change YOUR future behavior, and as a tool to build empathy, to better understand what life without comforts is like.
Prayer and fasting are meant to help you improve you.
Hopefully the two will also help encourage you to do for others.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by NoNukes, posted 08-03-2016 8:43 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 188 of 591 (788651)
08-03-2016 9:43 AM


Prayer and fasting clears the channels between you and God, as it were, diminishes the fleshly noise of everyday life and increases spiritual awareness. It's often done for the purpose of understanding what God wants of you in a particular situation, or to find out if God wants you to do a particular work. You may get strong impressions of what God wants you to do from spending a few days at it. It can be used for any spiritual purpose. It could involve a ministry to the poor, or any other kind of work for God. It may also sensitize you to your own faults at the same time.
Phat has been saying most of this already though. I don't know what the problem is with getting his point.
Edited by Faith, : correct grammar

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by Phat, posted 08-07-2016 4:47 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 190 by Phat, posted 08-07-2016 4:51 AM Faith has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 189 of 591 (788897)
08-07-2016 4:47 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Faith
08-03-2016 9:43 AM


>>> to help you improve you.<<<
jar writes:
Two of the main purposes of prayer and fasting are setting aside time for introspection, for examining YOUR past behavior and deciding how to change YOUR future behavior, and as a tool to build empathy, to better understand what life without comforts is like.
Prayer and fasting are meant to help you improve you.
And a better me makes a better servant for Him.
Faith writes:
... It may also sensitize you to your own faults at the same time.
And we all could use a dose of humility.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Faith, posted 08-03-2016 9:43 AM Faith has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 190 of 591 (788898)
08-07-2016 4:51 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Faith
08-03-2016 9:43 AM


Doing For Others
Faith writes:
Phat has been saying most of this already though. I don't know what the problem is with getting his point.
Because jar says that we are responsible for what we do. Im trying to show him that God is responsible for strengthening us through prayer and fasting. It is His promise. It is also our responsibility as Christians to pray and fast as led by the Spirit.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Faith, posted 08-03-2016 9:43 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by ringo, posted 08-07-2016 2:25 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 191 of 591 (788899)
08-07-2016 4:53 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by NoNukes
08-03-2016 8:43 AM


Re: prayer and fasting.
nonukes writes:
Jesus did recommend prayer and fasting. But did Jesus ever indicate that doing so helped feed the poor or shelter the homeless? No. He told us that doing so was our own responsibility. You aren't suppose to simply pray and fast in order to get a mystical visit to folks in prison, you are supposed to take your butt to the big house.
No buts about it!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by NoNukes, posted 08-03-2016 8:43 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 192 of 591 (788918)
08-07-2016 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Phat
08-07-2016 4:51 AM


Re: Doing For Others
Phat writes:
It is also our responsibility as Christians to pray and fast as led by the Spirit.
Your earthly employer would probably tell you to do your prayer and fasting on your own time; as long as there are customers waiting to be fed, your job is to feed them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Phat, posted 08-07-2016 4:51 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by Phat, posted 08-18-2016 8:13 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 193 of 591 (789752)
08-18-2016 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by ringo
08-07-2016 2:25 PM


What Is More Important?
ringo writes:
Your earthly employer would probably tell you to do your prayer and fasting on your own time; as long as there are customers waiting to be fed, your job is to feed them.
Do you consider your life "His Time" or "Your Time"?
the poor we will always have with us. The hungry too. Does God expect us to skip prayer simply to feed one more person? They will hunger again unless we feed them spiritual food. Yet if we fail to pray, we have failed to attend company meetings all in the interest of feeding one more of the masses. Im quite sure you will want to keep the store open for the late straggler rather than edify andf strengthen yourself through prayer. Then again, you probably don't think you need prayer.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by ringo, posted 08-07-2016 2:25 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by jar, posted 08-18-2016 9:01 PM Phat has replied
 Message 195 by NoNukes, posted 08-18-2016 10:43 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 204 by ringo, posted 08-19-2016 12:08 PM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 194 of 591 (789753)
08-18-2016 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by Phat
08-18-2016 8:13 PM


Re: What Is More Important?
Phat writes:
Does God expect us to skip prayer simply to feed one more person?
Yes!
Phat writes:
They will hunger again unless we feed them spiritual food.
That is utter bullshit and a sorry excuse as well.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Phat, posted 08-18-2016 8:13 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Phat, posted 08-19-2016 8:53 AM jar has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 195 of 591 (789756)
08-18-2016 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by Phat
08-18-2016 8:13 PM


Re: What Is More Important?
the poor we will always have with us. The hungry too.
Jesus did say something like that, but it was not over prayer versus feeding the hungry.
Does God expect us to skip prayer simply to feed one more person? They will hunger again unless we feed them spiritual food. Yet if we fail to pray, we have failed to attend company meetings all in the interest of feeding one more of the masses
Nobody is telling you to skip corporate meetings or prayer. Surely you don't do those things 168 hours per week.
Edited by NoNukes, : or vs are.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Phat, posted 08-18-2016 8:13 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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