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Author Topic:   The Marketing Of Christianity
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 46 of 591 (780970)
03-29-2016 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Phat
03-29-2016 9:25 AM


Re: Christianity 101
Phat writes:
Have you ever prayed for evidence?
Yes, and answers to the questions on the test and an egg that was not runny and many other things.
I did find eggs that were not runny and sometimes answers to the test but never any evidence or even a way to tell if there was evidence of GOD, spirit, soul. impartation, or a relationship with such a creature.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 03-29-2016 9:25 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Phat, posted 03-29-2016 9:53 AM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 47 of 591 (780972)
03-29-2016 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by jar
03-29-2016 9:30 AM


Re: Christianity 101
I did find eggs that were not runny and sometimes answers to the test but never any evidence or even a way to tell if there was evidence of GOD, spirit, soul. impartation, or a relationship with such a creature.
this reminds me of another post that you had in reply to Coyote.
quote:
The Christian "Are you saved?" con is dishonest for many reasons.
First, even if there is an afterlife, no one will know if they are saved or not until after they are judged.
Second, it is too often marketed to the young, those who's brains have not yet developed.
Third, it is most often marketed in a culture where critical thinking and questioning is not just discouraged, it is condemned.
Fourth, there is no recourse; if someone dies and is judged and they find they are NOT saved, saying "But I got saved when I was eight" carries no weight.
BUT...
in reality, it is a great, very productive con. As long as the snake oil salesman evangelist reports his income and pays his taxes, the US Constitution protects his right to market a product (salvation) with NO product liability.
Do you believe that there should be a way to tell? Should anyone care whether or not they are saved?
Personally I believe that everyone knows "about" God. How they respond to that knowledge carries more weight than what they say.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by jar, posted 03-29-2016 9:30 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by jar, posted 03-29-2016 10:10 AM Phat has replied
 Message 49 by Tangle, posted 03-29-2016 10:22 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 48 of 591 (780973)
03-29-2016 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Phat
03-29-2016 9:53 AM


Re: Christianity 101
Phat writes:
Do you believe that there should be a way to tell? Should anyone care whether or not they are saved?
I can see absolutely no way that anyone can know if they are saved and firmly believe that no one should know they are saved.
Phat writes:
Personally I believe that everyone knows "about" God. How they respond to that knowledge carries more weight than what they say.
And what exactly is the evidence for that belief? When Atheists tell you they do not know about God do you think they are lying? When someone says they know about God and it's not the God you are marketing where is the evidence they might be wrong?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Phat, posted 03-29-2016 9:53 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Phat, posted 03-29-2016 1:07 PM jar has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 49 of 591 (780974)
03-29-2016 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Phat
03-29-2016 9:53 AM


Re: Christianity 101
quote:
Personally I believe that everyone knows "about" God. How they respond to that knowledge carries more weight than what they say.
  —Phat
Can you see Phat that what you believe tells you nothing about whether it's factually true or not?
You hold a stack of beliefs that I believe to be total nonsense. I can't prove that your beliefs are wrong, all I can do point you at the evidence that has convinced me, but I can't prove you wrong about your beliefs.
But I can prove you wrong about what you believe about me. There is no god. What I know about gods I've found out are man-made fabrications with no supporting evidence.
So given that you're wrong about your belief about me, and what you believe your god has told me to 'know' about him, is it remotely possible that you're wrong about what you belief about your god in general?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Phat, posted 03-29-2016 9:53 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 50 of 591 (780977)
03-29-2016 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Phat
03-29-2016 8:16 AM


Re: God Unplugged
Phat writes:
As I have said before, there have been many Christians at this forum who knew lots of scripture yet who did not seem to have love. God is love. I pray that we all receive a bigger dose of this. Hate is itself a cancer. The Holy Spirit is an effective antidote.
The snake oil doesn't seem to be working on the Christians you mentioned. So how is it "effective"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Phat, posted 03-29-2016 8:16 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


(2)
Message 51 of 591 (780979)
03-29-2016 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Phat
03-29-2016 7:32 AM


Re: God Unplugged
If anything, my beliefs have gone even further into the atheist realm. I accept prayers from anyone but don't think they do anything for ME.
If anything my faith in humanity has increased; the selfless doctors, the strangers that send you a "Fuck Cancer" meme totally against their nature, the people I've known for a long time but have never met that message me routinely just to say hi, the NURSES... there is no better nurse in the world (except maybe the NICU) than an oncology nurse.
I know a lot of people who went the other way and have become much more religious. I can't see life that way. The same people who throw up the Hallelujahs every time some cross shape appeared at the scene of some tragedy but never seem to notice their god is who supposedly let the tragedy happen. Oh yes, I killed 6 people so you could see a cross shape and praise me.
I believe people are responsible for their actions, good or bad. Religion is a delusional way to avoid that responsibility.
Hope this made sense... I'm on "nausea medication" right now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Phat, posted 03-29-2016 7:32 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Phat, posted 03-29-2016 1:12 PM Asgara has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 52 of 591 (780982)
03-29-2016 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by jar
03-29-2016 10:10 AM


Re: Christianity 101
jar writes:
When Atheists tell you they do not know about God do you think they are lying?
Perhaps I should clarify. When I assert that everyone knows about God, all I am saying is that everyone has read the stories and heard the marketing speech. Tangle knows the stories. he may not buy them but he certainly knows the product attempting to be sold. The belief that there is a Creator of all seen and unseen is known. For that matter, the myth of the "flying spaghetti monster" is also known...at least by those of us here.
Tangle writes:
Can you see Phat that what you believe tells you nothing about whether it's factually true or not?
You hold a stack of beliefs that I believe to be total nonsense. I can't prove that your beliefs are wrong, all I can do point you at the evidence that has convinced me, but I can't prove you wrong about your beliefs.
All that I was suggesting is that you know about my beliefs. I was not suggesting that everyone "knows" God...I was suggesting that everyone "knows about" God.
I can prove you wrong about what you believe about me. There is no god. What I know about gods I've found out are man-made fabrications with no supporting evidence.
I already knew that! I still love you Tangle...glad you joined our conversation.
jar writes:
When someone says they know about God and it's not the God you are marketing where is the evidence they might be wrong?
In this I agree with you in that you will never have the evidence that you seek until after this life.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by jar, posted 03-29-2016 10:10 AM jar has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 53 of 591 (780983)
03-29-2016 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Asgara
03-29-2016 12:20 PM


Re: God Unplugged
Asgara writes:
I believe people are responsible for their actions, good or bad. Religion is a delusional way to avoid that responsibility.
I know that Fred Phelps was delusional. I know that the KKK are delusional. Heck, many of the TV preachers are delusional, in my book. My question is this: Must belief counteract responsibility?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Asgara, posted 03-29-2016 12:20 PM Asgara has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 54 of 591 (780984)
03-29-2016 1:15 PM


Hurricane Yahweh
Our fair lady Asgara brought up another question percolating in my mind.
Why is it that people think God causes tragedies? Do you personally believe that He does? Why or why not?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Faith, posted 03-29-2016 1:27 PM Phat has replied
 Message 56 by ringo, posted 03-29-2016 1:28 PM Phat has replied
 Message 67 by Hyroglyphx, posted 03-29-2016 11:28 PM Phat has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 55 of 591 (780986)
03-29-2016 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Phat
03-29-2016 1:15 PM


Re: Hurricane Yahweh
Isa 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 03-29-2016 1:15 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 03-29-2016 1:36 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 56 of 591 (780987)
03-29-2016 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Phat
03-29-2016 1:15 PM


Re: Hurricane Yahweh
Phat writes:
Why is it that people think God causes tragedies?
Because He's advertised as, "the creator of all that is."
When General Motors brags about their warranty, they don't list the dozens of things that it doesn't cover. God's commercials don't list the negatives either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 03-29-2016 1:15 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Phat, posted 03-29-2016 1:46 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 57 of 591 (780988)
03-29-2016 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Faith
03-29-2016 1:27 PM


Re: Hurricane Yahweh
I hoped that you would return. OK lets talk tragedies. The Isaiah scripture is well known. One thing that bothers me though. If God chooses to wipe out certain people, nations, or planets due to His wrath against sin, what keeps Him from wiping us all out today? After all, we all sin.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Faith, posted 03-29-2016 1:27 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 03-29-2016 1:49 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 58 of 591 (780990)
03-29-2016 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by ringo
03-29-2016 1:28 PM


Re: Hurricane Yahweh
ringo writes:
When General Motors brags about their warranty, they don't list the dozens of things that it doesn't cover. God's commercials don't list the negatives either
Actually...they do.
Deuteronomy 30:15 writes:
See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil.
Deuteronomy 30:1-20 offers up the full warrenty.
Logically I dont see God micromanaging the weather based upon the sins of America...or any other nation, for that matter. What I do see is that people will reap what they sow.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by ringo, posted 03-29-2016 1:28 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by ringo, posted 03-30-2016 11:54 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 59 of 591 (780991)
03-29-2016 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Phat
03-29-2016 1:36 PM


Re: Hurricane Yahweh
There are degrees of judgment. I recognized 9-11 as God's judgment on America, but it was a very mild judgment, more of a warning. More to come if we don't repent. Well we aren't repenting and I think more has been steadily coming all these years since 9-11. I think God is using Islam to punish Europe, and we're next.
Deuteronomy and Leviticus both contain passages describing how God blesses a nation for obedience and brings disasters for disobedience. I'd have to look up the passages, I always get the numbers wrong. Leviticus 26 I think. Judgment includes economic collapse, enemies invading us, foreigners taking over the land, etc.
The scripture says God doesn't bring total judgment until a certain level of sin is reached. He didn't send the Israelites into Canaan to war against them until the sins of the Canaanites had reached a certain level which took over four hundred years.
However, I experience His personal chastizings for my own sins a lot so it's not as if He doesn't judge us personally.
Yes, He could just wipe us out since even one sin has infinite consequences But He's merciful to us sinners.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 03-29-2016 1:36 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Phat, posted 03-29-2016 2:35 PM Faith has replied
 Message 62 by jar, posted 03-29-2016 8:09 PM Faith has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 60 of 591 (780994)
03-29-2016 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Faith
03-29-2016 1:49 PM


Repent Or Perish
Faith writes:
I recognized 9-11 as God's judgment on America, but it was a very mild judgment, more of a warning. More to come if we don't repent. Well we aren't repenting and I think more has been steadily coming all these years since 9-11. I think God is using Islam to punish Europe, and we're next.
In your opinion, what should America do to collectively repent? Back in the old days they did something with sackcloth and ashes and the King himself would lead the repentance ..perhaps by fasting, as an example. I'd have to read more of the Old Testament to get a clearer picture.
Personally I believe that everyone needs to atone for their shortcomings regularly. Its not just that gays need to repent of a "sinful lifestyle", for example. Heterosexuals have just as many quirky bent thoughts, lusts, and behaviors that could warrant repentance. Lets take America in general. What do we need to repent of? Some claim we saved the world and owe nobody anything. Others claim that we were blessed with prosperity as a nation and should be more generous rather than spending so much on our military. How far does repentance go? Shall we all become Amish and throw away our smartphones and raunchy hollywood movies? Should we equate spiritual progress with patriotic far right ideals? After all, Acts seemed far more socialist than it did free market capitalist. WWJD?
Comments?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 03-29-2016 1:49 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Faith, posted 03-29-2016 3:38 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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