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Author Topic:   Creation
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5878
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 496 of 919 (828067)
02-09-2018 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 484 by Aussie
02-07-2018 2:02 PM


Re: days and dates
Hi Aussie,

Aussie writes:

I have just lost every shred of intellectual respect I may have had for you. And I've been reading you for years. You are beyond absurd and I feel bad for the ones gullible enough to follow your "Teaching" and take it seriously.

Please explain to me how Moses could have something called nouns when the word 'NOUN' did not exist until about 600 years ago.

If you could go back in time and ask Moses why he put nouns in his sentences what do you think his expression would be?

Do you think he would know what you were talking about?

Who is being silly.

If you want to understand the Word of God you have to quit thinking like a westerner and think like an easterner.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 484 by Aussie, posted 02-07-2018 2:02 PM Aussie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 497 by ringo, posted 02-09-2018 11:43 AM ICANT has responded
 Message 498 by NoNukes, posted 02-09-2018 11:56 AM ICANT has responded
 Message 508 by Aussie, posted 02-09-2018 2:23 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 14908
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 497 of 919 (828069)
02-09-2018 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 496 by ICANT
02-09-2018 11:35 AM


Re: days and dates
ICANT writes:

Please explain to me how Moses could have something called nouns when the word 'NOUN' did not exist until about 600 years ago.


The same way he could have stone tablets when the words "stone" and "tablet" didn't exist. He might not know what you were talking about but he'd still have his stone tablets.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 496 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 11:35 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 506 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 1:41 PM ringo has responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10863
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 498 of 919 (828072)
02-09-2018 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 496 by ICANT
02-09-2018 11:35 AM


Re: days and dates
If you could go back in time and ask Moses why he put nouns in his sentences what do you think his expression would be?

If that were to occur, Moses would not understand a single word I said, what with every single word I speak being in English. And yet Moses would still have hands, legs, a mouth, and nouns.

You won't follow this advice, but here it is anyway. You can improve your reputation by dropping this line of argument. It's making you look like an idiot, particularly with it being only a few posts separated from the one where I said that you had a bad reputation for facts and the truth.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 496 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 11:35 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 503 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 12:55 PM NoNukes has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5878
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 499 of 919 (828075)
02-09-2018 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 495 by ringo
02-09-2018 11:24 AM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
Hi ringo,

ringo writes:

So how do you know you can trust the source?

Glad you asked.

I have had a personal relationship with God since August 24, 1949.
During the course of duration since then He has never told me anything that has proven to be untrue. He introduce me to the most wonderful woman in the world that He had prepared for me. We met when I was fourteen because she was trying to make her boyfriend mad. She had cut her hair which made him mad as he had told her not to cut it. We spent about 8 minutes of the 10 minute recess talking after which we had to go to class as the bell rang ending recess. Her boyfriend had been watching us the entire time from the ag building. I had to go past him to get to my class as he was a classmate. He said, "I saw you sitting with my girl". I said, Louis you can forget her as I am going to marry her. After my graduation we were married June 3, 1957. We are still just as happy today as we were that day. We have always had what we needed, never lacking for anything. In fact most people would say we have lived a charmed life. I say it was because we put God first and He has blessed us far beyond our needs. I could spend weeks just recounting the things that have transpired in my life. Some of those things would be classified as miracles, which you would not believe.

I know you or no one else here will agree that these amount to anything. I saw how most of you treated Phat when he tried to explain some of his experiences here.

Let me say it makes no difference to me what you think. If I die and there is no heaven to spend eternity with the love of my life I will not have missed anything as it has been a wonderful journey of 60 years and 8 months together. We are looking forward to our 70th anniversary.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 495 by ringo, posted 02-09-2018 11:24 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 500 by ringo, posted 02-09-2018 12:27 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 502 by jar, posted 02-09-2018 12:54 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply
 Message 505 by Tangle, posted 02-09-2018 1:29 PM ICANT has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 14908
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 500 of 919 (828076)
02-09-2018 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 499 by ICANT
02-09-2018 12:18 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
ICANT writes:

During the course of duration since then He has never told me anything that has proven to be untrue.


It's been proven untrue even if you choose to believe it's true. You jump through a lot of hoops to convince yourself that the Bible is true, even the parts that have been proven untrue.

My question was: How do you decide that the Bible is true?


An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 499 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 12:18 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 501 by Phat, posted 02-09-2018 12:35 PM ringo has responded
 Message 504 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 1:10 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10970
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 501 of 919 (828079)
02-09-2018 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 500 by ringo
02-09-2018 12:27 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
ringo writes:

It's been proven untrue even if you choose to believe it's true.

Be more specific. Saying that the flood is untrue does not mean that the life and ministry of Jesus Christ is untrue. Which specific claims do you personally regard as untrue?More to the point, what is truth?Are we limiting ourselves to evidence or are we discussing experience and plausibility of character?

Is it possible to prove that Long John Silver is untrue?

Did Jesus even exist? Why or why not?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 500 by ringo, posted 02-09-2018 12:27 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 514 by ringo, posted 02-10-2018 11:04 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30705
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 502 of 919 (828081)
02-09-2018 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 499 by ICANT
02-09-2018 12:18 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
ICANT writes:

I have had a personal relationship with God since August 24, 1949.

Really? And exactly how did you determine your relationship was with God and not just a bad burrito?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 499 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 12:18 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5878
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 503 of 919 (828082)
02-09-2018 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 498 by NoNukes
02-09-2018 11:56 AM


Re: days and dates
Hi NoNukes,

NoNukes writes:

If that were to occur, Moses would not understand a single word I said,

If you knew his language not modern Hebrew as he would not understand or even recognize modern Hebrew, there would not be a word that would translate as noun.

Modern Hebrew does have a word that will translate as noun.

All I am trying to say is that you cannot apply rules of modern English and modern Hebrew to a language that has been dead since 600 BC.

With that statement I will end my discussion of nouns.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 498 by NoNukes, posted 02-09-2018 11:56 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 511 by NoNukes, posted 02-09-2018 3:42 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5878
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 504 of 919 (828083)
02-09-2018 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 500 by ringo
02-09-2018 12:27 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
Hi ringo,

ringo writes:

It's been proven untrue even if you choose to believe it's true. You jump through a lot of hoops to convince yourself that the Bible is true, even the parts that have been proven untrue.

What has been proven untrue?

I am going to ask you some specific questions one at a time so you can think your answer over carefully. Anyone else can chime in that wants too.

Question #1 a 2 part question.

Did the universe have a beginning to exist, how?

Genesis 1:1

quote:
In the beginning created God the heavens and the earth

That says the universe had a beginning.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 500 by ringo, posted 02-09-2018 12:27 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 515 by ringo, posted 02-10-2018 11:13 AM ICANT has responded
 Message 539 by Astrophile, posted 02-14-2018 7:13 PM ICANT has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5967
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 505 of 919 (828084)
02-09-2018 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 499 by ICANT
02-09-2018 12:18 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
ICANT writes:

I have had a personal relationship with God since August 24, 1949.
During the course of duration since then He has never told me anyth

How you can interpret normal, everyday events like boy meets girl, boy marries girl, boy and girl live happily ever after as supernatural is beyond me.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 499 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 12:18 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 507 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 1:53 PM Tangle has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5878
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 506 of 919 (828085)
02-09-2018 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 497 by ringo
02-09-2018 11:43 AM


Re: days and dates
Hi ringo,

ringo writes:

The same way he could have stone tablets when the words "stone" and "tablet" didn't exist. He might not know what you were talking about but he'd still have his stone tablets.

Moses never mentioned tablet but he did mention stone some 53 times.

אבן is what Moses used that we translate as stone.

He also mentioned ספר 16 times which we translate as book.

ABE Moses had no word we translate as noun.

God Bless,

Edited by ICANT, : Added comment ABE


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 497 by ringo, posted 02-09-2018 11:43 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 516 by ringo, posted 02-10-2018 11:19 AM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5878
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 507 of 919 (828086)
02-09-2018 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 505 by Tangle
02-09-2018 1:29 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
Hi Tangle,

Tangle writes:

How you can interpret normal, everyday events like boy meets girl, boy marries girl, boy and girl live happily ever after as supernatural is beyond me.

That is simple. I know me and the woman I married is the only woman in the world that would have still been my wife after 60 years of putting up with me. Much less being happy to remain my wife.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 505 by Tangle, posted 02-09-2018 1:29 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 509 by Aussie, posted 02-09-2018 2:27 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply
 Message 510 by Tangle, posted 02-09-2018 2:58 PM ICANT has responded

    
Aussie
Member
Posts: 178
From: Sanford, FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006


Message 508 of 919 (828087)
02-09-2018 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 496 by ICANT
02-09-2018 11:35 AM


Re: days and dates
Please explain to me how Moses could have something called nouns when the word 'NOUN' did not exist until about 600 years ago.

Trying to ignore the base absurdity of your line of reasoning here...but it's really hard. Moses didn't really cause water to flow from the rock when he struck it, because he didn't know what "Water" or "Rock" are in modern English?

I know some illiterate Americans. I've taught some High school American kids who couldn't tell me the difference between a noun or adjective or adverb. I know some reasonably intelligent professionals who could not explain the difference between the Indicative and Subjunctive moods. IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE. Are you saying these people can't and don't use nouns and verbs because they don't know what they are? Does not knowing the parts of speech stop a person from using them? Are you capable of seeing the intrinsic absurdity of your argument? If you can't, again: Never mind, I can't help you.

If you want to understand the Word of God you have to quit thinking like a westerner and think like an easterner.

So your point is, if someone; anyone, wants to understand the Bible, say, a Norseman of a thousand years ago, or an inner city kid of today, or a native in Papua New Guinea, or South America, they would have to understand the long-dead language of the long-extinct mindset of primitive tribesmen from the Bronze age? You say that the average layman can't understand Scripture in his own language, but requires a clergy of experts to read and interpret Scripture for him? Is Scripture in our own language not enough?

Are you really going there? Because this would be a great time to start backpedaling.

Thor bless,


"...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 496 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 11:35 AM ICANT has not yet responded

    
Aussie
Member
Posts: 178
From: Sanford, FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006


Message 509 of 919 (828088)
02-09-2018 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 507 by ICANT
02-09-2018 1:53 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
That is simple. I know me and the woman I married is the only woman in the world that would have still been my wife after 60 years of putting up with me. Much less being happy to remain my wife.

If you talk and reason the way you have been here with that lady...for 60 years...and your quote above is true, then I concede the point that she must be hand chosen by a Deity as the only one for you.

Sorry, couldn't resist. *running away*


"...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 507 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 1:53 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5967
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 510 of 919 (828089)
02-09-2018 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 507 by ICANT
02-09-2018 1:53 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
ICANT writes:

That is simple. I know me and the woman I married is the only woman in the world that would have still been my wife after 60 years of putting up with me. Much less being happy to remain my wife.

Well first off that is highly unlikely to be true and also impossible to know but even if it was true it's oviously no miracle.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 507 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 1:53 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 512 by ICANT, posted 02-10-2018 1:57 AM Tangle has responded

  
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