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Author Topic:   Creation
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6248
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1171 of 1229 (842506)
11-02-2018 3:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1169 by ICANT
11-02-2018 1:34 AM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:

Why that conclusion?

Because that's how the water cycle works


If the head river was big enough to feed 4 rivers to water the entire earth there would have been enough evaporation to cause rain.

Yeh, we call those oceans and seas and the are at the end of the river's journey not at its source.

You forgot the mist that came up from the ground that watered the earth.

Cobblers.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1169 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2018 1:34 AM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15597
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1172 of 1229 (842516)
11-02-2018 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1165 by creation
11-01-2018 2:49 PM


Re: Creation
creation writes:

Yes. Spirits no longer directly dwell on earth with man. Life spans reduced 90% or whatever. Trees now take years to grow generally...


I asked you for book, chapter and verse.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1165 by creation, posted 11-01-2018 2:49 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1178 by creation, posted 11-02-2018 5:48 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15597
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1173 of 1229 (842517)
11-02-2018 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1170 by ICANT
11-02-2018 1:42 AM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:

There is nothing in Genesis to suggest that there was more than one mass of dry land.


And there is nothing in Genesis to suggest that there wasn't. It does NOT say that all of the land was in one place.

And we know from reality that all of the land is NOT in one place.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1170 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2018 1:42 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1176 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2018 5:25 PM ringo has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1775
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 1174 of 1229 (842525)
11-02-2018 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1169 by ICANT
11-02-2018 1:34 AM


Re: Creation
If the head river was big enough to feed 4 rivers to water the entire earth there would have been enough evaporation to cause rain.

I'm just curious, can you show a case where a large river flows into 4 smaller rivers?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1169 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2018 1:34 AM ICANT has not yet responded

    
Stile
Member
Posts: 3258
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 1175 of 1229 (842527)
11-02-2018 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1098 by ringo
10-22-2018 3:13 PM


Re: Creation
I just feel like rambling on this side-topic:

ringo writes:

ICANT writes:

A year is a artificial name given to the duration it takes for the earth to make a complete revolution around the sun....

The length of a year can change.
The length of a day can change.
The length of duration can not change.

The only thing that can change is the length between events in duration.

That is the reason time is a concept developed by mankind to measure the duration between events in eternity.


Non sequitur. The fact that we have arbitrary names for certain slices of time does not mean that time is "just a concept". As it turns out, time is a real "thing", which is interwoven with length, width and height.

Absolutely.
Time and length (or width or height) are very much treated the same by humans.

Both are real aspects of reality - not only concepts or ideas invented by humans:

Time - as things change in time we can identify differences - basic time changes can be identified: eg. - "slower" or "faster"
Length - as things change in length we can identify differences - basic length changes can be identified: eg. - "shorter" or "longer"

Both can be measured:

Time - taking a known amount of time (a repeatable oscillation) we can measure how many of these oscillations it takes for a previously-unknown time and create a basis for comparison
Length - taking a known amount of length (a repeatable rod) we can measure how many of these rods it takes for a previously-unknown length and create a basis for comparison

Humans have invented concepts to standardize measurements:

Time - The second is the duration of 9 192 631 770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium 133 atom. Other made up unit examples: Hours, days, years, fortnights, trimester...
Length - The meter is the length of the path traveled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1/299 792 458 of a second. Other made up unit examples: Kilometer, mile, foot, league, parsec...

Both cause issues when taking specific-contexts from day-to-day life and thinking of them as absolutes in all contexts

Time - There is no absolute-standard "day" in a sun-up/sun-down sense... for many reasons. Large ones include the sun not rising/setting the same around the world or the difficulty in identifying when you see/don't-see the sun - were you a second off? hundredths of a second off? millionths?
Length - There is no absolute-standard "8 foot" long 2x4... for many reasons. Large ones include the inability of wood to be "perfectly straight" or the problem that upon microscopic-inspection... there is no definitive "end" of the wood. Just a dense collection of wood-atoms, and a not-so-dense collection as you move further along - varying greatly at different areas of the face-of-the-end of the 2x4.

Both these terms are great and very useful for understood-contextualized conversations.
Both these terms fall apart very quickly when attempting to identify any sort of absolute-standard.

The concepts don't exist for either aspect of reality

Time - You cannot touch "a minute," but you certainly can touch "a minute of running water."
Length - You cannot touch "5 feet," but you certainly can touch "5 feet of wood."

Apologies for bringing up the old side-discussion.
It's just been in my mind for a bit - the idea that "Time" and "Length" are treated equally by humans as real things that both exist as part of our reality - but with human-invented-conceptual-measurement-standards surrounding our ability to identify them.

I agree with ringo - To say or imply that length is real, but time is only a human-invented-concept is to misunderstand both.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1098 by ringo, posted 10-22-2018 3:13 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 1177 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2018 5:35 PM Stile has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6055
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1176 of 1229 (842538)
11-02-2018 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1173 by ringo
11-02-2018 11:48 AM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo

ringo writes:

And we know from reality that all of the land is NOT in one place.

Who said it wasn't scattered all over the place. The earth was divided in the days of Peleg.

Do you contend that there was never a time when there was one land mass?

Pangaea comes to my mind.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1173 by ringo, posted 11-02-2018 11:48 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1192 by ringo, posted 11-04-2018 1:31 PM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6055
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1177 of 1229 (842539)
11-02-2018 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1175 by Stile
11-02-2018 1:31 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Stile,

Stile writes:

I agree with ringo - To say or imply that length is real, but time is only a human-invented-concept is to misunderstand both.

What or who determines what an inch is? or a foot? or a yard?

Who determines the length of a second?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1175 by Stile, posted 11-02-2018 1:31 PM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1183 by JonF, posted 11-02-2018 7:44 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 1198 by Stile, posted 11-05-2018 9:42 AM ICANT has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 445
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 1178 of 1229 (842544)
11-02-2018 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1172 by ringo
11-02-2018 11:43 AM


Re: Creation
Lifespans changed greatly look it up. Spirits no longer marry women and have babies on earth. Look it up. If you send a bird to find a tree someplace there are no trees, and a week later it returns with evidence of a new tree...that is fast growth. Look it up.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1172 by ringo, posted 11-02-2018 11:43 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1193 by ringo, posted 11-04-2018 1:35 PM creation has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 445
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 1179 of 1229 (842545)
11-02-2018 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1161 by ringo
10-31-2018 2:01 PM


Re: Creation
Maybe what you said does not mean one place. However since the one place was a bible quote, one supposes that could mean one place.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1161 by ringo, posted 10-31-2018 2:01 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1194 by ringo, posted 11-04-2018 1:40 PM creation has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 445
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 1180 of 1229 (842547)
11-02-2018 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1167 by Tangle
11-01-2018 3:53 PM


Re: Creation
So to you, anything that works any other way than it does in the present nature is magic. OK.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1167 by Tangle, posted 11-01-2018 3:53 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1182 by Tangle, posted 11-02-2018 6:59 PM creation has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 445
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 1181 of 1229 (842548)
11-02-2018 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1164 by ringo
10-31-2018 3:11 PM


Re: Creation
You claimed windows of heaven are fairy tales. Like you know? Ha.

As for upheaval, we see that in the world so it had to have happened sometime. Many feel that mountains before the flood were smaller. So the real high ones had to get here somehow, sometime.

The bible doesn't say when. Looking at other big changes though, we can see that a lot of changes happened right after the flood period.

Another way to cross check this in the bile is to look at the future. I would say that the future, not the present is the key to the past in the bible!

Every island shall flee away and every mountain shall be made low, and a great quake will level all mountains and all skyscrapers (towers) on earth.

One good fit for this would be a rapid returning to the way it was in the past!!

Edited by creation, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1164 by ringo, posted 10-31-2018 3:11 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1195 by ringo, posted 11-04-2018 1:53 PM creation has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6248
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


(3)
Message 1182 of 1229 (842562)
11-02-2018 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1180 by creation
11-02-2018 5:51 PM


Re: Creation
creation writes:

So to you, anything that works any other way than it does in the present nature is magic. OK.

Not exactly no. That was sarcasm.

You see, to me an adult that talks this kind of irrational, childish drivel has been badly let down by their parents, the evil bastards of whatever deranged religious organisation that pedals this mindrot, the education system and the society that allows it..

So it's not totally your own fault, but you're not doing much to help yourself. You need to try thinking for yourself a bit, if you can.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1180 by creation, posted 11-02-2018 5:51 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1184 by creation, posted 11-03-2018 2:34 PM Tangle has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 4261
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 1183 of 1229 (842565)
11-02-2018 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1177 by ICANT
11-02-2018 5:35 PM


Re: Creation
Still confusing the units we chose (arbitrarily) with what is being measured.

The map is not the territory.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1177 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2018 5:35 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1187 by ICANT, posted 11-04-2018 1:54 AM JonF has responded

  
creation
Member
Posts: 445
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 1184 of 1229 (842602)
11-03-2018 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1182 by Tangle
11-02-2018 6:59 PM


Re: Creation
So your claim was sarcasm, and you don't actually thin the current physics/nature we see is indicative of the future or past? Spit it out.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1182 by Tangle, posted 11-02-2018 6:59 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1185 by Tangle, posted 11-03-2018 3:32 PM creation has responded
 Message 1186 by caffeine, posted 11-03-2018 6:20 PM creation has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6248
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1185 of 1229 (842607)
11-03-2018 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1184 by creation
11-03-2018 2:34 PM


Re: Creation
creation writes:

So your claim was sarcasm, and you don't actually thin the current physics/nature we see is indicative of the future or past? Spit it out.

What I think - know - is that the more you spout nonsense, the more you refuse to understand the need for evidence to support the nonsense, the more you troll with your one line responses (though I note you've actually made a bit more of an effort in a last couple of posts), the more you invent and ad hoc, the more you look like the archetypal loonytunes fundamentalist.

I suppose you think your 'arguments' are impressive but it's only to yourself. If you actually want to make progress instead of making a fool of yourself you need to bring some actual facts, rationality and logic into your posts.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1184 by creation, posted 11-03-2018 2:34 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1190 by creation, posted 11-04-2018 12:12 PM Tangle has responded

  
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