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Author Topic:   Creation
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6118
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1276 of 1358 (844378)
11-28-2018 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1274 by Son of Man
11-28-2018 1:47 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Man

Son of Man writes:

I am trying to make the point that at some point in your life you were taken to a religious meeting and didn't go of your own free will, when was that point in time?

I may have been taken to church before I was 5 years old. But since we had a big dinner at church on the one day a month we went nobody had to force me to go. I loved to eat so I was the first one ready and saying to everyone else hurry up, lets go. We had church 12 times a year. I suppose you could get really brainwashed in all those meetings.

But my grandfather who raised me had a stroke when I was seven years old. From then on I would go down to the road about a 1/4 mile from the house and hitch a ride to church. By the time I was nine we were having church every Sunday. So I hitch hiked rides to church which was 3 miles from where I lived. On certain occasions I rode one of the horses. But taking care of his waste was necessary. So it was better to catch a ride.

Son of Man writes:

Bible Code,

The Bible has no code to reveal anything in it.

There are many charlatans that claim to have found codes in the Bible. If they did it is because the devil gave it to them or showed it to them.

But yes the Bible is hard for a person that has not had a personal experience with God being born again and receiving the Holy Spirit to lead a person in all truth.

Son of Man writes:

I believe we were placed here by a far superior race than we are,

I believe we were created and placed here on earth by an entity that is eternal in existence, has all knowledge, all power and can be everywhere at the same time.

You are probably mistaking my guardian angel for a space craft.

Son of Man writes:

of course someone had to have evolved at some point in time,

Why did someone have to evolve? Mankind has actually devolved.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1274 by Son of Man, posted 11-28-2018 1:47 PM Son of Man has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1277 by Son of Man, posted 11-29-2018 6:21 AM ICANT has responded

    
Son of Man
Junior Member
Posts: 25
From: Ireland
Joined: 11-13-2018


Message 1277 of 1358 (844403)
11-29-2018 6:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1276 by ICANT
11-28-2018 10:14 PM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:

suppose you could get really brainwashed in all those meetings.

Again you knocked the nail on the head? it must have been good food? Sounds like your from a big family? was anyone in your family devoutly religious, that is someone you didn't know but maybe was told about since their death?

Bible code
your probably right I never really found any proper evidence of anything I could truly believe.

how many WE were created and placed on earth? Some scientists reckon there were seven females? as they can trace all female DNA back to just seven group's # the seven daughters of Eve wiki. some say a lot more can be found? No daughter's of Eve are mentioned in the Bible? It seems that all women (in religious eyes) are capable of immaculate conception? no mention of husbands? Only twice for Adam?

ICANT writes:

You are probably mistaking my guardian angel for a space craft.


I don't think so the spacecraft myself, brother and stepfather saw was scanning the buildings at back of our house in the early 70s, the buildings in question belonged to British aero space making fighting aircraft at the time?

If we didn't evolve and all intelligent life in the universe was created by the same hand? why don't we have the same features as aliens found visiting our earth? there are at least five other races visiting this planet and not one of them resembles humans? Surely if we are all from the same maker we would resemble each other? whereas if we have all evolved we might not?

still no mention of my works? Perhaps you believe I'm a charlatan or in league with the devil?
I'm guessing your taking the religious stand point your way or no way?


the first will be the last and the last will be the first.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1276 by ICANT, posted 11-28-2018 10:14 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1279 by ICANT, posted 11-29-2018 11:57 AM Son of Man has responded
 Message 1282 by ICANT, posted 12-01-2018 2:19 AM Son of Man has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15740
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(2)
Message 1278 of 1358 (844413)
11-29-2018 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1275 by creation
11-28-2018 6:39 PM


Re: Creation
creation writes:

How would we know the mechanism that started the plates moving?


The same way we know anything - by comparing it to known processes. We don't pretend, like you do, that some woo-woo unknown process used to be in effect at some unspecified time in the past. If we blamed everything on a "different nature" we would, like you, never learn anything.

creation writes:

Have you forgotten that the theories of plate tectonics have only guessed?


Theories are not guesses. They are thoroughly tested and confirmed by observation and experiment.

Edited by ringo, : Spellong.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1275 by creation, posted 11-28-2018 6:39 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1283 by creation, posted 12-01-2018 2:22 PM ringo has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6118
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 1279 of 1358 (844419)
11-29-2018 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1277 by Son of Man
11-29-2018 6:21 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Man

Son of Man writes:

it must have been good food?

It was the best that could be produced. I lived in a farming community where we grew our own food. We bought salt, we produced everything else. We ate lots of fish, quail, ducks, deer, bear, coon, rattlesnake, gator tail, and frog legs just to mention a few. We had pork, chickens, all kinds of greens, tomatoes, potatoes, peas, and beans. We grew cane and made syrup from it. Some of it would turn into sugar but grandma preferred to use the syrup to bake cakes and make pies with for sweetener. There was no GMO foods grown. Our bread was made from corn we grew.

Son of Man writes:

Sounds like your from a big family? was anyone in your family devoutly religious, that is someone you didn't know but maybe was told about since their death?

I was raised by my grandparents who had 3 girls and 4 boys.

None of my family was devoutly religious. They were all good people as that was the lifestyle in the 40's. At that time a man's word was worth more than a contract. This is the greatest principle I got from my family. I was taught that when you give your word you do not break it. A job worth doing was worth doing well. You never raise your hand against a woman. You help your neighbor in any way you can. You never took anything that did not belong to you. If you find something it is not yours it belongs to someone so find the owner. There were many other things I was taught but these were the most important.

I was not taught the Bible by anyone in my family in fact I don't remember any of them even mentioning it to me. I was born again 14 years before my father was.

No to the last part.

Son of Man writes:

how many WE were created and placed on earth?

quote:
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Genesis 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.


This man was the first life form on planet earth before any plants, trees, animals, and fowl.

The woman was cloned from the man after all other life forms existed on earth.

This is the oldest story and this world and all the people in it ceased to exist before Genesis 1:2 during the first light period of the 6 days of creation. These people only lived one light period as darkness had not been created until some point before Genesis 1:2

The story found in Genesis 1:2-2:3 says concerning mankind:

quote:
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Mankind was created in the image of God. (We are a triune being with a mind, body, and spirit)
Male and female created He 'THEM'.

He blessed 'THEM' and told 'THEM' to be fruitful and multiply and 'REPLENISH' (fill the earth with offspring) the earth. If you refill your coffee cup with coffee that means it was full prior to the refilling.

Now how many of 'THEM' were created. There is at least 2, but 'THEM' could have been 10 pair, 100 pair, or a thousand or more pairs. The Bible does not say nor does it limit how many of 'THEM' that was created.

Son of Man writes:

It seems that all women (in religious eyes) are capable of immaculate conception?

There was only one immaculate conception and birth which was Emmanuel. All other were conception by copulation.

Son of Man writes:

Only twice for Adam?

The Hebrew word translated Adam did not exist until the Masoretic text was finished around 800 AD which was only 1200 years ago.

The Hebrew word אדם would be transliterated as Adm which is the abbreviation for Administrator which the man was supposed to be. Biblical Hebrew had no vowels as we are used to using. They had consonants that was used for sounds for pronunciation. The vowels you see in Hebrew text was added in 800 AD.

Son of Man writes:

If we didn't evolve and all intelligent life in the universe was created by the same hand? why don't we have the same features as aliens found visiting our earth? there are at least five other races visiting this planet and not one of them resembles humans? Surely if we are all from the same maker we would resemble each other? whereas if we have all evolved we might not?

How would aliens if they exist look, or act like us if they are not from earth?

Son of Man writes:

still no mention of my works? Perhaps you believe I'm a charlatan or in league with the devil?
I'm guessing your taking the religious stand point your way or no way?

Give me some evidence I can examine and then maybe I can speak to your works. Until then they are just your thoughts.

My position is the Hebrew text that made thousands of predictions that were fulfilled hundreds and thousands of years after they were penned is correct in its original form. That is why I studied Greek, and Hebrew for the last 50+ years.

It does not make any difference what you believe or say as it does not make any difference what I believe or say. The only thing that matters is what God had to say.

So it is not my way or the highway.

God says there is only one way. That way being His way and we don't have any say in what He said. The only thing we can do is to accept it or reject it. You or I or anyone else can not change Gods Word to suite our beliefs. If we change it it is our word not Gods Word.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1277 by Son of Man, posted 11-29-2018 6:21 AM Son of Man has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1280 by Son of Man, posted 11-30-2018 6:25 AM ICANT has responded

    
Son of Man
Junior Member
Posts: 25
From: Ireland
Joined: 11-13-2018


Message 1280 of 1358 (844444)
11-30-2018 6:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1279 by ICANT
11-29-2018 11:57 AM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:

How would aliens if they exist look, or act like us if they are not from earth?


you are of the belief that aliens do not exist at all in any shape or form? so you think that man on earth is the only form of intelligence in the whole universe, no ET,s? not too far from me there is a UFO observation lab. the man that runs it was very successful at spotting and recording them and would give talks locally, that is until the yanks bought him out and silenced him?

As for my work I only really came on this forum because I genuinely feared for my life, that stuff in my head was spreading rapidly. I don't think I'm making any headway doing it this way, I'm feeling a lot better now in fact I feel twenty years younger at this stage. I'm thinking that writing the story from beginning to end might be the best way forward.

thank you for the good conversation it's appreciated


the first will be the last and the last will be the first.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1279 by ICANT, posted 11-29-2018 11:57 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1281 by ICANT, posted 12-01-2018 1:49 AM Son of Man has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6118
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1281 of 1358 (844499)
12-01-2018 1:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1280 by Son of Man
11-30-2018 6:25 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Man

Son of Man writes:

you are of the belief that aliens do not exist at all in any shape or form?

This world is not my home so that makes me an alien.

God and the angels including the devil are not citizens of this universe. The do travel around in it. The earth is Gods footstool.

Son of Man writes:

thank you for the good conversation it's appreciated

You are welcome.

God Bless.


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1280 by Son of Man, posted 11-30-2018 6:25 AM Son of Man has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6118
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1282 of 1358 (844500)
12-01-2018 2:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1277 by Son of Man
11-29-2018 6:21 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Man

Son of Man writes:

immaculate conception?

I forgot to mention something about immaculate conception. Which is a conception without copulation. In the late 1700's the first successful human artificial insemination was performed.

This proved you can have an immaculate conception without copulation.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1277 by Son of Man, posted 11-29-2018 6:21 AM Son of Man has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1289 by caffeine, posted 12-02-2018 1:54 PM ICANT has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1283 of 1358 (844535)
12-01-2018 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1278 by ringo
11-29-2018 11:01 AM


Re: Creation
Glad you admitted that! You only look at and go by present processes!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1278 by ringo, posted 11-29-2018 11:01 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1284 by Phat, posted 12-01-2018 2:42 PM creation has not yet responded
 Message 1287 by ringo, posted 12-02-2018 1:35 PM creation has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 11574
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1284 of 1358 (844541)
12-01-2018 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1283 by creation
12-01-2018 2:22 PM


Re: Creation
You have not addressed the reasoning whereby we should seriously consider any other process. Do you have anything apart from belief?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1283 by creation, posted 12-01-2018 2:22 PM creation has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1285 by ICANT, posted 12-01-2018 7:36 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6118
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1285 of 1358 (844555)
12-01-2018 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1284 by Phat
12-01-2018 2:42 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Phat

Phat writes:

You have not addressed the reasoning whereby we should seriously consider any other process. Do you have anything apart from belief?

Why would creation have anything other than belief?

That is the only thing anybody has.

Scientist believe the universe began to exist. Because it exists today. According to General relativity it could not have existed eternally in the past. If it had it would have reach equilibrium a long time ago. It would be dead with no life on it.

According to Alan Guth one of the key assumptions made in these theorems is that the energy-momentum tensor obeys the weak energy condition.

An assumption is a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof. Which means it is accepted as truth by faith.

Guth further stated:

quote:
If thermalized regions were able to form all the way to past infinity in the contracting spacetime, the whole universe would have been thermalized before inflationary expansion could begin
Quoted from "Inflationary spacetimes are not past-complete" by Arvind Borde, Alan Guth and Alexander Vilenkin.

So the universe had to have a beginning to exist.
My questionis how did it begin to exist?

Best scientific answer I have got so far is, "we don't know".

But I don't have to say "I don't know". Because I know God created the heavens and the earth.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1284 by Phat, posted 12-01-2018 2:42 PM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1286 by Tangle, posted 12-02-2018 3:35 AM ICANT has responded
 Message 1288 by ringo, posted 12-02-2018 1:37 PM ICANT has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6352
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 1286 of 1358 (844566)
12-02-2018 3:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1285 by ICANT
12-01-2018 7:36 PM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:

Quoted from "Inflationary spacetimes are not past-complete" by Arvind Borde, Alan Guth and Alexander Vilenkin.
So the universe had to have a beginning to exist.

Why do you creationists have to cherry pick stuff? Is it something that comes with the territory, that you have to be dishonest or is there a chunk of brain missing that deals with dispassionate analysis?

The universe does not have to have had a beginning, it could have always existed,. This is just one hypothesis:

quote:
Bottom line: Most of us understand the Big Bang as the idea that our entire universe came from a single point, what astrophysicists call a singularity. But we might not need a singularity to have a Big Bang, according to a new study by Ahmed Farag Ali in Egypt and coauthor Saurya Das in Canada. The catch according to astrophysicist Brian Koberlein is that, without the singularity, this model predicts that the universe had no beginning. It existed forever as a kind of quantum potential before collapsing into the hot dense state we call the Big Bang.

https://earthsky.org/...hat-if-the-universe-had-no-beginning

Best scientific answer I have got so far is, "we don't know".

So why say that they DO know? Why do that?

The truth is that we don't yet know and we may never know. But we have a number of ideas about it that we're testing against the evidence. That's how science works. It's a strength not a weakness.

But I don't have to say "I don't know". Because I know God created the heavens and the earth.

You don't know anything, not even how to go about working out what we do know or even reporting honestly what is said by those who'se job it is to work this stuff out. What you have is a primitive and superstitious belief that was disproved millenia ago and you're determined to defend at all costs. Including your honesty.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1285 by ICANT, posted 12-01-2018 7:36 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1291 by ICANT, posted 12-02-2018 4:42 PM Tangle has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15740
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1287 of 1358 (844588)
12-02-2018 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1283 by creation
12-01-2018 2:22 PM


Re: Creation
creation writes:

Glad you admitted that! You only look at and go by present processes!


Well, I'm glad you almost understood what I said - but I did say "known" processes, not "present" processes. If you can show us the processes that you believe happened in the past and are happening beyond our cosmic "fishbowl", we'll be sure to include those processes in our calculations. What we don't take into account is the fairy-tale processes that you make up in a sad attempt to prop up your religion.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1283 by creation, posted 12-01-2018 2:22 PM creation has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15740
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1288 of 1358 (844589)
12-02-2018 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1285 by ICANT
12-01-2018 7:36 PM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:

Why would creation have anything other than belief?


Because it's a science forum.

ICANT writes:

That is the only thing anybody has.


Nonsense. You're like the guy living in a cardboard box who thinks nobody has a better house than his.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1285 by ICANT, posted 12-01-2018 7:36 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1290 by ICANT, posted 12-02-2018 4:33 PM ringo has responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1551
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1289 of 1358 (844592)
12-02-2018 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1282 by ICANT
12-01-2018 2:19 AM


Re: Creation
[qs]in the late 1700's the first successful human artificial insemination was performed.[/b][/qs]

Is that a typo, or do you actually know of an artificial insemination in humans in the 18th century? A quick Google turns up nothing.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1282 by ICANT, posted 12-01-2018 2:19 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1294 by ICANT, posted 12-02-2018 4:52 PM caffeine has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6118
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1290 of 1358 (844598)
12-02-2018 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1288 by ringo
12-02-2018 1:37 PM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo

ringo writes:

Nonsense. You're like the guy living in a cardboard box who thinks nobody has a better house than his.

Creation is the subject of this discussion and there is nobody who has presented any scientific evidence supporting creation. Which is the origin of the universe.

If you have any scientific evidence that is not based on an assumption would you please present it and give me permission to use it in my book on creation?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1288 by ringo, posted 12-02-2018 1:37 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1292 by Phat, posted 12-02-2018 4:47 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 1293 by ringo, posted 12-02-2018 4:50 PM ICANT has responded

    
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