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Author Topic:   Creation
Phat
Member
Posts: 11882
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1396 of 1473 (845486)
12-16-2018 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1394 by ringo
12-16-2018 1:29 PM


Obtuse vs Illiterate. Dad and Son spar
and then we have the other son in Canada...

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1394 by ringo, posted 12-16-2018 1:29 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1397 by ringo, posted 12-16-2018 1:56 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15986
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1397 of 1473 (845489)
12-16-2018 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1396 by Phat
12-16-2018 1:49 PM


Re: Obtuse vs Illiterate. Dad and Son spar
Your story doesn't address Tanypteryx's point at all.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1396 by Phat, posted 12-16-2018 1:49 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1398 by Phat, posted 12-16-2018 1:58 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11882
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1398 of 1473 (845491)
12-16-2018 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1397 by ringo
12-16-2018 1:56 PM


Re: Obtuse vs Illiterate. Dad and Son spar
Tanypteryx has a valid point in regards to science. My analogy was meant to show what I believe the motive is for ICANT even arguing. His aim is not to reinvent science. His aim is to convince you that God is the one exception to the rule that there is no absolute truth. You, of course, will continue to argue.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1397 by ringo, posted 12-16-2018 1:56 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1400 by ringo, posted 12-16-2018 2:05 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11882
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1399 of 1473 (845493)
12-16-2018 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1394 by ringo
12-16-2018 1:29 PM


Re: Creation
Your basic argument:
unless there is evidence pointing to a cause-effect relationship between prayer and _______, we can not conclude that prayer is effective.
Which extrapolates into: "Unless there is evidence pointing to a cause-effect relationship between GOD and_________, we cannot conclude that God exists or is effective." You will never convince the old man of that!

God cannot be proven using science.

God is a matter of Faith.

Whether God exists regardless of our faith may be proven at some point in the future. Or we may die never knowing. jar thinks we may know after we die.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1394 by ringo, posted 12-16-2018 1:29 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1401 by ringo, posted 12-16-2018 2:08 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15986
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1400 of 1473 (845495)
12-16-2018 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1398 by Phat
12-16-2018 1:58 PM


Re: Obtuse vs Illiterate. Dad and Son spar
Phat writes:

My analogy was meant to show what I believe the motive is for ICANT even arguing. His aim is not to reinvent science. His aim is to convince you that God is the one exception to the rule that there is no absolute truth.


That can't be right. He has used examples that have nothing to do with God. I think it's plain that he just doesn't understand what absolute means.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1398 by Phat, posted 12-16-2018 1:58 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15986
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1401 of 1473 (845498)
12-16-2018 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1399 by Phat
12-16-2018 2:02 PM


Re: Creation
Phat writes:

Which extrapolates into: "Unless there is evidence pointing to a cause-effect relationship between GOD and_________, we cannot conclude that God exists or is effective." You will never convince the old man of that!


Well, of course not. I wouldn't waste a word trying to convince him that water is wet. But hopefully somebody else will see how foolish his ideas are.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1399 by Phat, posted 12-16-2018 2:02 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1402 by Phat, posted 12-16-2018 2:17 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11882
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1402 of 1473 (845501)
12-16-2018 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1401 by ringo
12-16-2018 2:08 PM


Re: Creation
ringo writes:

I wouldn't waste a word trying to convince him that water is wet.

Is the fact that water is wet an absolute truth?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1401 by ringo, posted 12-16-2018 2:08 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1403 by ringo, posted 12-16-2018 2:28 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15986
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1403 of 1473 (845506)
12-16-2018 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1402 by Phat
12-16-2018 2:17 PM


Re: Creation
Phat writes:

Is the fact that water is wet an absolute truth?


It's a consensus.

And you're shooting yourself in the foot, deviating again from God being the only absolute truth.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1402 by Phat, posted 12-16-2018 2:17 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1404 by Phat, posted 12-16-2018 3:08 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11882
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1404 of 1473 (845516)
12-16-2018 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1403 by ringo
12-16-2018 2:28 PM


Re: Creation
No. I am concurring that God is the only necessary absolute truth. All else is consensus.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1403 by ringo, posted 12-16-2018 2:28 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1405 by ringo, posted 12-16-2018 3:11 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15986
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1405 of 1473 (845517)
12-16-2018 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1404 by Phat
12-16-2018 3:08 PM


Re: Creation
Phat writes:

I am concurring that God is the only necessary absolute truth.


In what way is God "necessary"?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1404 by Phat, posted 12-16-2018 3:08 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1414 by Phat, posted 12-17-2018 10:47 AM ringo has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6180
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


(1)
Message 1406 of 1473 (845530)
12-16-2018 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1388 by AZPaul3
12-15-2018 4:50 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Paul

AZPaul writes:

What there is no evidence for, none at all, is the speculation that some god popped the universe into existence or had anything at all to do with anything in this universe. There is no reason, even vanishingly small, to entertain the notion. No level of confidence need be assessed. It does not enter the picture in anyway. If some evidence is found, and verified, this may change. Until then, god is out.

Sounds like you believe that statement to be an absolute truth.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1388 by AZPaul3, posted 12-15-2018 4:50 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1412 by AZPaul3, posted 12-17-2018 1:59 AM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6180
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 1407 of 1473 (845532)
12-16-2018 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1390 by DrJones*
12-15-2018 6:04 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Dr.

Dr writes:

you could be hallucinating your sobriety.

I think that would be kind of hard as I have not had a drink since 1962.

Dr writes:

don't be an idiot, obviously from the context of his writing he meant two of Earth's moon.

He said he looked up and saw 2 moons. Well I informed everyone there is 181 in our solar system which is many more than 2. Did you know there was 181 in our solar system?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1390 by DrJones*, posted 12-15-2018 6:04 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1408 by DrJones*, posted 12-16-2018 8:46 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

    
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1783
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 1408 of 1473 (845534)
12-16-2018 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1407 by ICANT
12-16-2018 8:35 PM


Re: Creation
I think that would be kind of hard as I have not had a drink since 1962.

or so you think

Well I informed everyone there is 181 in our solar system which is many more than 2.

so you ignored the context of his statement and just spouted out some information with no thought to continuing the discussion.

id you know there was 181 in our solar system?

I didn't know the exact number but I knew there were lots. I also knew want he meant by his statement and didn't try to ignore his argument.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1407 by ICANT, posted 12-16-2018 8:35 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6180
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 1409 of 1473 (845535)
12-16-2018 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1392 by Tanypteryx
12-15-2018 7:14 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Tanypteryx

Tanypteryx writes:

The scientific method since it was first defined as a methodical way to study and understand things has been a highly successful way to gain knowledge.

And most of that knowledge has had to be discarded because no one was looking for the truth.

Tanypteryx writes:

Was this a question or a statement? I never waste resources.

There has been billions wasted because what was promoted as real science had to be discarded as junk science.

Tanyhpteryx writes:

There are enough resources to do science and solve human issues. You guys aren't successfully doing either one.

Not when we are 21 trillion dollars in debt. If the other world goverments decided to set up their own monetery system and dump the dollar as the world currency we would be bankrupt. Because they would not have to use dollars to do business with each other. That would mean we could not print dollars to do business with them.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1392 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-15-2018 7:14 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1410 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-16-2018 9:38 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1921
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 1410 of 1473 (845539)
12-16-2018 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1409 by ICANT
12-16-2018 8:46 PM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:

Tanypteryx writes:

The scientific method since it was first defined as a methodical way to study and understand things has been a highly successful way to gain knowledge.

And most of that knowledge has had to be discarded because no one was looking for the truth.

That's a bit vague. I suspect it's bullshit.

ICANT writes:

Tanypteryx writes:

Was this a question or a statement? I never waste resources.

There has been billions wasted because what was promoted as real science had to be discarded as junk science.

And more vague bullshit.

ICANT writes:

Tanypteryx writes:

There are enough resources to do science and solve human issues. You guys aren't successfully doing either one.

Not when we are 21 trillion dollars in debt. If the other world goverments decided to set up their own monetery system and dump the dollar as the world currency we would be bankrupt. Because they would not have to use dollars to do business with each other. That would mean we could not print dollars to do business with them.

Sounds like you're ready to line some more billionaire pockets to fix things.

So, how come your god hasn't vanquished the evil scientists yet?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1409 by ICANT, posted 12-16-2018 8:46 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

    
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