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Author Topic:   This belief thing
jar
Member
Posts: 29183
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 106 of 162 (783874)
05-09-2016 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Faith
05-09-2016 12:27 PM


Faith, please stop misrepresenting what I post, say or believe.
Faith writes:

Jar does something else. Since God is presented in the Bible as being both severe and merciful, wrathful and patient, jealous and longsuffering, jar decides there is more than one god there. Most normal readers of the Bible understand that there is a time for wrath and a time for patience in the same personality, but not jar.

That is simply not true Faith.

Stop misrepresenting what I say, believe or post.

YOU said "If the characteristics are different it seems likely we're not talking about the same person. "

I simply pointed out that if that were true then since the description of God in Genesis 1 is entirely different than the description of God found in Genesis 2&3, totally, completely mutually exclusive different descriptions, then by YOUR criteria it seems likely we're not talking about the same person.

It's not what I say it is what is actually written and applying YOUR criteria.

But that is also true of all the religions out there. Some are of course far more consistent describing the characteristics of a god then Christianity and the other two Judaic faiths, Judaism and Islam and Islam is more consistent in describing Allah than Christianity in describing the amalgam "Christian God" but all are simply the creations of humans and all simply reflect gods created by humans.

Religions are paths, human constructs that evolve and change as needed and desired and totally unrelated to whether or not there is some GOD.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Faith, posted 05-09-2016 12:27 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Faith, posted 05-09-2016 1:59 PM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25826
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 107 of 162 (783875)
05-09-2016 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by jar
05-09-2016 1:54 PM


Re: Faith, please stop misrepresenting what I post, say or believe.
I was guessing at why you come up with different gods, true, so I apologize for that, but you also haven't said exactly why you think there are different gods. Isn't it fair to suppose that you are seeing different characteristics given as descriptive of God in different parts of the scripture and concluding from that fact that there are different gods?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by jar, posted 05-09-2016 1:54 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by jar, posted 05-09-2016 2:27 PM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29183
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 108 of 162 (783878)
05-09-2016 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Faith
05-09-2016 1:59 PM


will the real god of the Bible please stand up?
Faith writes:

I was guessing at why you come up with different gods, true, so I apologize for that, but you also haven't said exactly why you think there are different gods. Isn't it fair to suppose that you are seeing different characteristics given as descriptive of God in different parts of the scripture and concluding from that fact that there are different gods?

I've covered that may times before but will try again since it is relevant to the whole topic of "This belief thing".

Beliefs change.

The people that developed the story found in Genesis 2&3 had a concept of what they thought the God they worshiped was like and it was a very human god, kinda bumbling, sometimes afraid, a learning on the job tinkerer but also affectionate, approachable, subject to not always telling quite the truth. But it was a comforting god and so that's the god they put in there stories.

The folk that wrote Genesis 1 came along long afterwards and they presented an entirely different description of God, one that was aloof, apart, not connecting in anyway with the creation but also supremely competent and all powerful. And so that is the god they wrote into their stories.

Still later during the initial consolidation period (likely during the Exile) all these different separate stories were mushed together into the written Torah and for some reason it was not a matter of making it one story but instead just minor rearrangements (the newer younger creating myth put first with the older creation myth second and the two different flood myths both included but in alternating chapters) and the whole bunch of unrelated tales that had grown up over long, long periods of time attributed to Moses who may of may not have even existed.

It's not really that there are two gods in the Bible but rather that there are no GODs in the Bible and just a collection of caricatures created by differing peoples, differing cultures during different eras and locations.

Still later the Christian writers added their own creations showing how they saw God and all those different creations have been accepted as relating to some "God of the Bible" that again varies as seen by the various audiences.

This is also true though of all religions, the grow and evolve as they are created by each new generation.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Faith, posted 05-09-2016 1:59 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Faith, posted 05-09-2016 2:40 PM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25826
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 109 of 162 (783881)
05-09-2016 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by jar
05-09-2016 2:27 PM


Re: will the real god of the Bible please stand up?
Well, my basic guess was correct except that you add your own words to the text ("bumbling" for cryin out loud) which is tampering with the text. Yes you've said all that before, I just have trouble believing anyone could say something so obnoxious about the God of the Bible. My characterization was right in principle, just left out your personal embellishments and interpretations.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by jar, posted 05-09-2016 2:27 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by jar, posted 05-09-2016 4:19 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7415
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 110 of 162 (783887)
05-09-2016 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Faith
05-09-2016 11:24 AM


Sorry if it seems long, you know how it goes

Where does the Koran describe the idolatrous religions?

http://quran.com/4/119
http://quran.com/5/3
http://quran.com/5/90
http://quran.com/6/74
http://quran.com/7/138
http://quran.com/7/145

It's not a history of idolatry

It's not really a history book. The Bible is a library of books, not all of them are history books.

You should read Chapter 7 - Abraham.

quote:
And We have certainly created you, [O Mankind], and given you [human] form. Then We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was not of those who prostrated.

[ Allah ] said, "What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?" [Satan] said, "I am better than him. You created me from fire and created him from clay."

[ Allah ] said, "Descend from Paradise, for it is not for you to be arrogant therein. So get out; indeed, you are of the debased.


It starts its history of disobedience and idolatry pretty early, wouldn't you say?

quote:
And "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat from wherever you will but do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."

But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal.

And he swore [by Allah ] to them, "Indeed, I am to you from among the sincere advisors."

So he made them fall, through deception. And when they tasted of the tree, their private parts became apparent to them, and they began to fasten together over themselves from the leaves of Paradise. And their Lord called to them, "Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you that Satan is to you a clear enemy?"

They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves, and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers."


quote:
And when they commit an immorality, they say, "We found our fathers doing it, and Allah has ordered us to do it." Say, "Indeed, Allah does not order immorality. Do you say about Allah that which you do not know?"

quote:
And who is more unjust than one who invents about Allah a lie or denies His verses? Those will attain their portion of the decree until when Our messengers come to them to take them in death, they will say, "Where are those you used to invoke besides Allah ?" They will say, "They have departed from us," and will bear witness against themselves that they were disbelievers.

quote:
We had certainly sent Noah to his people, and he said, "O my people, worship Allah ; you have no deity other than Him. Indeed, I fear for you the punishment of a tremendous Day.

[Noah] said, "O my people, there is not error in me, but I am a messenger from the Lord of the worlds."

I convey to you the messages of my Lord and advise you; and I know from Allah what you do not know.

Then do you wonder that there has come to you a reminder from your Lord through a man from among you, that he may warn you and that you may fear Allah so you might receive mercy."


Bear in mind that this is one Chapter. The whole Koran is about the length of Genesis, and covers lots of subjects, and most of the first five *books* of the Bible contain historical origin information of some sort.

quote:
Then do you wonder that there has come to you a reminder from your Lord through a man from among you, that he may warn you? And remember when He made you successors after the people of Noah and increased you in stature extensively. So remember the favors of Allah that you might succeed.

They said, "Have you come to us that we should worship Allah alone and leave what our fathers have worshipped? Then bring us what you promise us, if you should be of the truthful."

[Hud] said, "Already have defilement and anger fallen upon you from your Lord. Do you dispute with me concerning [mere] names you have named them, you and your fathers, for which Allah has not sent down any authority? Then wait; indeed, I am with you among those who wait."

So We saved him and those with him by mercy from Us. And We eliminated those who denied Our signs, and they were not [at all] believers.


It goes onto the fall of the Midianites for turning their back on God.

It also has the story of the Pharaoh and Moses.

quote:
And We took the Children of Israel across the sea; then they came upon a people intent in devotion to [some] idols of theirs. They said, "O Moses, make for us a god just as they have gods." He said, "Indeed, you are a people behaving ignorantly.

quote:
And the people of Moses made, after [his departure], from their ornaments a calf - an image having a lowing sound. Did they not see that it could neither speak to them nor guide them to a way? They took it [for worship], and they were wrongdoers.

quote:
And We divided them into twelve descendant tribes [as distinct] nations. And We inspired to Moses when his people implored him for water, "Strike with your staff the stone," and there gushed forth from it twelve springs. Every people knew its watering place. And We shaded them with clouds and sent down upon them manna and quails, [saying], "Eat from the good things with which We have provided you." And they wronged Us not, but they were [only] wronging themselves.

quote:
But those who hold fast to the Book and establish prayer - indeed, We will not allow to be lost the reward of the reformers.

There's lots more. I think that should count, right?

No, I meant it's unique in the sense that it is a history, and it's a history that is coherent over a millennia and a half of different writers.

We could argue the toss on this, but the end result is that all books can claim some property that renders them unique. And being as the Bible is about 70 books depending on denomination, then there's plenty of material to claim uniqueness.

The Quran is unique in being written by a single illiterate goat herder, for example. Or is the only major religious text that claims to be the verbatim Word of God, dictated through a prophet?

quote:
but "female gods" raises questions. Could it be referring to Catholicism's saints and Virgin Mary?

Asherah, Allat. Or any other female goddess that people were trying to say were God's consort at the time it was written. There are the (in)famous Satanic Verses:

quote:
Have ye thought upon Al-Lat and Al-‘Uzzá
and Manāt, the third, the other?
These are the exalted gharāniq, whose intercession is hoped for.

All three are local female goddesses to the region.

But it isn't an answer to my claim, which was that the Bible gives a history of the world that explains how the idolatrous religions came about -- i.e. through the Fall, which gave Satan and his horde power to rule human beings and invent religions that put Satan in the place of God and deny the true God.

Has anyone ever told you that you should read things that you are going to criticize. As shown above, everything from the fall through Noah, Moses, Abraham, all of that.

Not only that but it specifically cites the Old Testament as Holy Scripture.

quote:
Was he not informed of the teachings in the scripture of Moses?

http://www.masjidtucson.org/quran/frames/ch53.html

quote:
[87:18] This is recorded in the earlier teachings.

[87:19] The teachings of Abraham and Moses.


The Book of Psalms gets the thumbs up:

quote:
[4:163] We have inspired you, as we inspired Noah and the prophets after him. And we inspired Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, the Patriarchs, Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon. And we gave David the Psalms.

[4:164] Messengers we have told you about, and messengers we never told you about. And GOD spoke to Moses directly.


It also speaks of The Gospel, though this is meant to be the Original Gospel, given to mankind by God - rather than the fragments that made it into the New Testament written by flawed people.

The problem is that Christianity is the only religion that is based on an abundance of eyewitness accounts.

Islam, Judaism and Buddhism, Sikhism can all claim to have this distinction too.

Islam has one witness, Mohammed himself, and he isn't witness to anything historical anyway, just to his meeting with the angel he calls Gabriel and what the angel dictated to him.

Nope. For one, Mohammed couldn't write. He dictated. To witnesses. Those witnesses also witnessed other miracles. Also - Abraham, Moses, Noah and Jesus don't count, suddenly?


So the nature of the belief is this:
Beliefs are stupid
Unless they are yours

Seriously though, belief is a funny thing, religious belief particularly. All religions, when they proclaim things to be one way, necessarily exclude the other options. Some religions were tolerant of adding new deities, or modifying existing ones, morphing their beliefs to suit the zeitgeist etc. But if you try and tell those religious people they are wrong to do this, and they'll make their displeasure known.

Other religions are utterly inflexible, or pretend to be. Unflexible beliefs can lead to strange places.

I tell you about a God who created Adam, who was tempted by Satan, punished by God. One of his descendants, Noah was given a heads up by God before flooding the world. God went to Abraham, and he went to Moses, he spoke with King Solomon and King David, destroyed the Midianites, etc etc and then tell you about a God called Allah
who created Adam, who was tempted by Satan, punished by Allah. One of his descendants, Noah was given a heads up by Allah before flooding the world. Allah went to Abraham, and he went to Moses, he spoke with King Solomon and King David, destroyed the Midianites, etc etc

And belief can make you think 'Hey you are talking about two completely different gods'.

If the characteristics are different it seems likely we're not talking about the same person.

Belief is good. We cannot function without belief.

The question that has plagued mankind for a long time:

which beliefs should I believe, and which ones are deceptions?

Is answered (I'm being loose) one of two ways

1) Theology. Pick a faith. Stick to it.
2) Philosophy: Try and figure out the best way to pick beliefs, then pick beliefs that mesh with this.

With some exceptions, the arguments for Islam and Christianity are the same. Picking either is as good as picking the other. It's little different than picking between Mozart and Beethoven. Christians will say there's is better because their unique book contains a history...prophecy....and witnesses.
Muslims will say the history had already been written. And not by Christians. They have a unique book dictated to mankind by God himself. Unedited, unchanged. Perfect, written in the most beautiful poetic forms that nobody has been able to replicate, proving its divine authorship.

Usually, the belief is chosen, is the primary belief of the community. If nothing else, its easier to be in the majority. But the majority also gets more word of mouth discussions, they get more billboard space, they get to put their symbols on government property even if it is actually unconstitutional to do so. So the propaganda of family, friends, the local religious centres, co-workers - usually means people go with whatever is significant in their community.

Because religious belief is about community more than God. God is just a foci for Muslims, Jews, Christians whatever to come together regularly in a spirit of openness trust and goodness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Faith, posted 05-09-2016 11:24 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Tangle, posted 05-09-2016 3:56 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply
 Message 114 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-09-2016 4:47 PM Modulous has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4966
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 111 of 162 (783890)
05-09-2016 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Modulous
05-09-2016 3:16 PM


You need to add politics and power. Apt quote from another work of man's imagination - Game of Thrones.

The faith and the crown are the two pillars that hold up this world. One collapses so does the other. We must do everything necessary to protect one another.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Modulous, posted 05-09-2016 3:16 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29183
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 112 of 162 (783891)
05-09-2016 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Faith
05-09-2016 2:40 PM


Re: will the real god of the Bible please stand up?
Faith writes:

Well, my basic guess was correct except that you add your own words to the text ("bumbling" for cryin out loud) which is tampering with the text. Yes you've said all that before, I just have trouble believing anyone could say something so obnoxious about the God of the Bible. My characterization was right in principle, just left out your personal embellishments and interpretations.

You need to ask that of the people who wrote the story found in Genesis 2&3. Remember when the god character is trying to figure out what a helpmeet for Adam might be and so just brings different critters to see if they work and then when none of them work clones Eve (or Steve) from Adam. What else would anyone call that then bumbling? Fumbling? Groping? Indecisive? Confused? Unknowing? Ignorant?

Compare that behavior to the God character found in the much later Genesis 1 story from a different culture. In Genesis 1 the God character is sure and almost all knowing and does without hesitation.

The point Faith is that just as with all the world's religions those stories are just made up and reflect the people of the era rather than any actual God.

It's not a matter of what I say but rather what the authors wrote; not what I think but what they thought and expressed.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Faith, posted 05-09-2016 2:40 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by PaulK, posted 05-09-2016 4:40 PM jar has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12969
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 113 of 162 (783893)
05-09-2016 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by jar
05-09-2016 4:19 PM


Re: will the real god of the Bible please stand up?
This annoys me. It is not a "helpmeet", it is a "help meet" - that is a fitting or proper helper. if you are going to use translations that old, bear in mind that their vocabulary will be that old, and archaic uses, like that of "meet" will be found.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by jar, posted 05-09-2016 4:19 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by jar, posted 05-09-2016 4:53 PM PaulK has not yet responded

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 871
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 114 of 162 (783894)
05-09-2016 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Modulous
05-09-2016 3:16 PM


I think modern Islamic scholarship has evolved on some issues.
The tendency seems to be to see the Hebrew Bible as an imitation of much earlier events (that might not have even happened in Palestine). The Koran used Hebrew Bible prophets & characters but the current trends, among Muslims, seem to be to see those as imitations of earlier humans (say 2000 years earlier and perhaps in Arabia or Persia).

The Koran (and Muhammad) requires belief in the Torah of Moses, the Psalms of David, the Prophets, and the Gospels of Jesus in order to be a Muslim.

But the "Old Testament" people are put in a different time and place I think.

I hear lots of American black Muslims saying this anyway. (and lots of conspiracy theories on why the blackness of Biblical characters were covered up and how modern Jews are just Greeks and Germans imitating Black Prophets mentioned in the Koran and the Bible. But many black Christians say the same thing, except they say "Jews were black" which is actually quite simple because at least "Jews" are a common point of reference when talking to Christians. Many black Muslims have conspiracy theories so elaborate that I get confused. It's like they know the name of every tribe in the Bible and relate them to every ancient people. "The Hyksos were black" then "Romans, Greeks, Germans flooded the Middle east and North Africa" is all I can remember. )

I think even Arab Muslims now question the traditional time and place issues.

Now they say that there is a possibility of Solomon living in Arabia perhaps 5000 BCE.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Modulous, posted 05-09-2016 3:16 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Modulous, posted 05-09-2016 5:23 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29183
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 115 of 162 (783897)
05-09-2016 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by PaulK
05-09-2016 4:40 PM


Re: will the real god of the Bible please stand up?
Exactly, a proper helper. Now you might think that God having made critters male and female he made them, would know that a fit helper from Adam would be a female human. But it seems that God really can't figure that out without first trying all the already made critters (the story is not clear whether the god character offered Adam a choice between a male critter and a female critter).

But I like words such as meet and fructify and oblate and widdershins.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by PaulK, posted 05-09-2016 4:40 PM PaulK has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7034
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 116 of 162 (783898)
05-09-2016 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tangle
04-26-2016 12:13 AM


Everywhere supertitions and proverbs were rife. Each country seems to have it's own versions of auspicious omens, charms and lucky numbers. In Vietnam it was 3, Hong Kong 8 and so on. The daft things that we have about astrology they take very seriously, as they do with their year of birth - dog, rat, monkey etc.

I used to have a Thai co-worker who was going to buy a house, but decided not to after conferring with her mother. As it turns out, their family astrologer said that it was a bad time to buy. In talking to her, her family isn't the exception. They are the norm.

With a little chuckle, she let me know that Western cultural norms seem just as weird in Asia as house buying astrologers are in Western cultures.

I think you are correct when you say that human cultures just need something to believe in, something to blame. Our human adaptations which gave us the ability to make useful associations also comes with the less common ability to make false associations, or so it would appear.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tangle, posted 04-26-2016 12:13 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7415
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 117 of 162 (783899)
05-09-2016 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by LamarkNewAge
05-09-2016 4:47 PM


Re: I think modern Islamic scholarship has evolved on some issues.
I think modern Islamic scholarship has evolved on some issues.

That's why it's called modern, surely?

But the "Old Testament" people are put in a different time and place I think.

I'll need evidence. The default position is not to call Allah a liar. Everything he says is literally and figuratively true.

I hear lots of American black Muslims saying this anyway. (and lots of conspiracy theories on why the blackness of Biblical characters were covered up and how modern Jews are just Greeks and Germans imitating Black Prophets mentioned in the Koran and the Bible. But many black Christians say the same thing, except they say "Jews were black" which is actually quite simple because at least "Jews" are a common point of reference when talking to Christians. Many black Muslims have conspiracy theories so elaborate that I get confused. It's like they know the name of every tribe in the Bible and relate them to every ancient people. "The Hyksos were black" then "Romans, Greeks, Germans flooded the Middle east and North Africa" is all I can remember. )

What the fuck was that?

I think even Arab Muslims now question the traditional time and place issues.

What made you think this?

Now they say that there is a possibility of Solomon living in Arabia perhaps 5000 BCE.

Who says?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-09-2016 4:47 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by PaulK, posted 05-09-2016 5:31 PM Modulous has responded
 Message 121 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-10-2016 4:59 PM Modulous has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12969
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 118 of 162 (783900)
05-09-2016 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Modulous
05-09-2016 5:23 PM


Re: I think modern Islamic scholarship has evolved on some issues.
Could be the influence of the Nation of Islam, which has been rather nutty in various ways.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Modulous, posted 05-09-2016 5:23 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Modulous, posted 05-09-2016 5:39 PM PaulK has responded

    
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7415
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 119 of 162 (783901)
05-09-2016 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by PaulK
05-09-2016 5:31 PM


Re: I think modern Islamic scholarship has evolved on some issues.
Could be the influence of the Nation of Islam, which has been rather nutty in various ways.

Ah....Culture. Where someone can say 'black Muslims' and anticipate that the other person will picture an eccentric group comprising of a few tens of thousands rather than, you know the millions of people that are black, Muslim and not in the Nation of Islam.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by PaulK, posted 05-09-2016 5:31 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by PaulK, posted 05-10-2016 1:06 AM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12969
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 120 of 162 (783923)
05-10-2016 1:06 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by Modulous
05-09-2016 5:39 PM


Re: I think modern Islamic scholarship has evolved on some issues.
I've read enough of LamarckNewAge's posts to suspect it is the sort of thing he'd do. And to be fair the crazier ideas would stick in the mind more and it isn't as if ordinary Muslims are going to spontaneously start denying them any more than Christians would start spontaneously denying Mormon ideas.
This message is a reply to:
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