PC Gone Too Far

Hi Percy, my 2 centavos. Ok, but the Wehrmacht did not have clean hands and where culpable of heinous war crimes of their own. Lest we forget.The time to honor the confederate war dead I believe is fading away into history. One of my ancestors from Kentucky served on both the Confederate side and Union Army later after the Civil War. Do we scorn the southern troops for doing what they thought was right? For fighting for their country? I don't, But nor should we honor them either for their cause was in the end less than honorable imo. A brave soldier is a brave soldier, but the cause in still important isn't it? The Civil War is perhaps the worst thing in American history to ever happen to our country. I believe the South, in a new form of rebellion, erected many many memorials to show the world they are not repentant and in fact just as adamant they were right in their cause. We know today that is not the case. It's time they came down. imo.Edited by 1.61803, : where for were

Yes but we are talking about a comparison between Confederate soldiers and the Wehrmacht vs SS.
My point was the all to common thought that the Wehrmacht was somehow not culpable in the the holocaust. And the answer is Yes, yes they were. Yes I agree. Bad phraseology on my part. Well we can remember them without building a monument to celebrate them can we not?

Hi Percy,Memorials can indeed go a long way in keeping the past in our consciousness. I think the place where I disagree with you is the words like "honor them".The concentration camp in Auschwitz is a example of a memorial.A bronze statue of Robert E. Lee charging on horse is a example of "honoring" Robert E. Lee it is a monument.The USS Arizona memorial in Hawaii is quite different than a monument honoring the Confederate founding father Jefferson Davis.I realize we disagree and thats fine, and I also get what you mean but I still think there is a distinction between a monument and a memorial. I have no problem with the Gettysberg memorial. A place of somber remembrance of the carnage and loss of all American participants. But a bronze statue or obelisk monument "honoring" the confederates is not really the same as remembering them is it?I guess I see monuments and memorials different than perhaps you do. I also feel that if given enough offense to enough people they should probably be evaluated to be relocated not because of political correctness in placating over sensitive citizen groups, but because it is the right thing to do in polite society imo.

When I was in Germany there were a multitude of WWII memorials and monuments. But any monument that had a swastika on it was stricken of it. And the image of Hitler does not dot the cities and parks.There is a reason for that and it is not because the Germans do not want to be reminded of their history.The Germans are a proud people but they are not proud of that chapter of history.The Southerners are a proud people and they (not all) are proud of that chapter of history. Lets face it.Is there a correlation between Germany WWII and Southern US and the Civil War? And just how does the Southerners square a abject, racist and exploitative past with today's message of unity and equality; if they want to continue to memorialize and honor the symbols of that racist past.Well of course the answer is they don't see them that way. They see it as part of their heritage and history that should be preserved and guarded. It is the Politically correct liberals that want to rob them of their heroes and battle flags.
One by one those swastikas are being stricken down and they hate it.

Hi Percy,I want to say that I am a veteran and lived in the south most of my life.I wrote a blank check with my life to the US Government so I can say there are few here who love their country more or understand the need to remember our vets.As I said before we do not agree and I think this is one particular subject I will not agree with you on. This is not a affront to you or your views. If it is not fine with you je suis desolie'. I always value what you have to say and learn a great deal from the forumites here. There is nothing wrong with your views other than we simply do not agree. I have been propagandized and indoctrinated as a former soldier so I wont pretend I am not bias in my views.You claim that PC has gone to far and yet you are here touting that the victors of a particular war must be sensitive to the losers and allow them to venerate,celebrate, pay tribute to them in the form of a public bust/statue/placard/obelisk irregardless of how many it may offend. That is some seriously PC crap if I ever heard it.You state that we should not parse words such as venerate, celebrate, pay tribute to vs the word " Remember " as in a memorial.I can remember Pol Pot and the atrocities of the Kymer Rouge by going to a museum But I doubt seriously you will find anyone erecting a tribute to him anywhere and there is a reason for that.I can remember and even feel remorse for the dead soldiers on both sides of the Civil War or WWII without having a huge bronze of Hitler standing in a public park. People have the right to venerate whom ever they want to but they do not have the right to publicly spit in the face of those who where victimized or take deep offense. Many see these tributes as symbols of remorseless unrepentant insults to be hurled at those who would not allow their execrable cause to come to fruition. They can venerate them in private and invite all their Southern Gentry, sons and daughters of the confederacy, KKK, neonazis, etc.. to pay homage to the vanquished leaders of their lost cause in their own private park.I personally have no problem with these confederate statues, markers, memorials. But I can see why many would. I do not see it as wrong for a dialog to relocate some of them is somehow going beyond the pale of being politically correct.

***Blink***~in the style of Rrhain

Hi Ringo.While this is probably true later in the years leading up to the war, I think it is more a factor of differences between the agrarian south vs the industrial north, the south being more suited to slave labor.
But I think your point is right the South was clinging to a non changing model compared to the dynamic North and burgeoning industrial age. According to Ken Burns's Documentary "The Civil War" the North in the worst years of the war was maintaining its all but most trivial traditions at various universities such as Harvard and Yale where in the South it was all but completely decimated by the war. It was sheer folly and complete mismanagement that allowed the war to continue for as long as it did according to some historians.

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It's not about their being good or bad people, it's about their standing on the historical Protestant doctrines according to Protestant zealots.

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Fixed.Edited by 1.61803, : No reason given.

Hi Percy, Have you ever seen this documentary?
What Our Fathers Did: A Nazi Legacy (2015) - IMDb "what our father's did"It is a documentary about three men who are placed together to come to terms with the past. 2 of the men are the sons of high ranking Nazi officers and the third man is the son of Jewish victims of the Holocaust.One of the sons in the film suffers from abject avoidance behavior and blame shifting when it comes to laying any responsibility or moral fall out from the deeds of his father, who so happens to be personally responsible for thousands of Jewish deaths.This son is unable to come to grips with what his father did.
He was only about 8 years old when the crimes happened. He himself is not guilty of anything. But throughout the film he is seen to rationalize and apologize and down right refuse to give credence to evidence of his fathers evil deeds.It is one thing to wish to protect and preserve the memory of those we revere. But I believe it is also important to accept that they are evil and perpetuated great evil and thus should be held in contempt for what they did. Even if it is ones own father it is important to lay those biases aside and validate the victims and survivors scorn of those that have done great evil to them.There is no honor among those who act dishonorably imo.Less we forget.

I will answer this with* what recently passedNobel prize winner Mr.
Elie Wiesel said once speaking about WWII

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Has Germany ever asked us to forgive? Mr. Wiesel asked. To my knowledge, no such plea was ever made. With whom am I to speak about forgiveness, I, who don’t believe in collective guilt? Who am I to believe in collective innocence?

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So the North was to just continue to practice laissez faire devil may care policy of the the Souths continued practice of slavery to include the desire to allow this practice to spread. In your opinion it is not for the Federal government to step in and put a stop to states practicing and perpetuating slavery. Because it is non of their business. Really?And for the record Slavery was wrong and still is wrong, no 'whether' to it. And if any states wish to practice states rights to re-institute slavery they will have to endure the full force of the Federal government to stop it. Yes States Rights to continue the abject inhuman practice of the human slavery.Edited by 1.61803, : changed what to with