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Author Topic:   The Science in Creationism
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


(1)
Message 150 of 986 (783360)
05-05-2016 2:04 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by Dawn Bertot
05-04-2016 11:57 PM


Re: Show Me The Evidence
Dawn Bertot writes:
quote:
No jar I don't need to provide these things anymore than you will provide anything more than indirect evidence for the conclusions of evolution
Unless you willing to provide direct evidence for your conclusions.
Can you do that?
Yes. Is there something specific in the evidence that you find lacking?
Remember, the bones were there and they are here now.
Remember, the DNA was there and is here now.
We have seen evolution happen right in front of our eyes. Here's an experiment you can do in the privacy of your own bio lab. It doesn't cost much and you can get the materials from any reputable biological supply house.
Take a single E. coli bacterium of K-type. This means the bacterium is susceptible to T4 phage. Let this bacterium reproduce until it forms a lawn. Then, infect the lawn with T4 phage.
What do we expect to happen? That's right, plaques should start to form and, eventually, the entire lawn will die. After all, every single bacterium in the lawn is descended from a single ancestor, so if the ancestor is susceptible, then all the offspring should be susceptible, too.
But what we actually see is that some colonies of bacteria in the lawn are not affected by the phage.
How can this be? Again, the entire lawn is descended from a single ancestor. They should all behave identically. If one is susceptible, then they're all susceptible. If one is immune, then they're all immune. This can't be an example of "adaptation" because if one could do it, they all could do it.
But since there is a discrepancy, we are left with only one conclusion: The bacteria evolved. There must be a genetic difference between the bacteria that are surviving and those that died.
Indeed, we call the new bacteria K-4 because they are immune to T4 phage.
But we're not done. Take a single K-4 bacterium and repeat the process: Let it reproduce to form a lawn and then infect the lawn with T4 phage.
What do we expect to happen? That's right: Absolutely nothing. All of the bacteria are descended from a single ancestor that is immune to T4 phage. Therefore, they all should survive and we shouldn't see any plaques form.
But we do. Plaques do, indeed start to form. How can this be? Again, all the bacteria in the lawn are descended from a single ancestor that was immune to T4 phage, so they should all behave identically. If one is immune, then all are immune. There must be something else going on.
Something evolved, but the question is what. What evolved? Could it be the bacteria experiencing a reversion mutation back to K-type? No, that can't be it. Suppose any given bacteria did revert back to wild. It is surrounded by K-4 type who are immune to T4 phage. As soon as the lawn is infected, those few bacteria will die and immediately be replaced by the offspring of the immune K-4 bacteria. We would never see any plaques forming because the immune bacteria keep filling in any holes that appear.
So if it isn't the bacteria that evolved, it must be the phage. And, indeed, we call the new phage T4h as it has evolved a new host specificity.
There is a similar experiment where you take bacteria that have had their lactose operons removed and they evolve to be able to digest lactose again.
You might want to look up the information regarding the development of bacteria capable of digesting nylon oligimers. It's the result of a single frame-shift mutation.
But wait, I know what you're going to say: "It's still a bacterium." Well, of course. What were you expecting? An ostrich? That would be a massive contradiction to evolution as we understand it. This was just a tiny experiment that shows you proof of concept. If you are willing to put in the effort and learn more about the science of evolutionary biology, you will learn more about the direct evidence we have. You will learn about genetic evidence showing directly how two organisms are related (or do you deny the validity of paternity tests?) You will learn about the fossil evidence that shows that this organism existed before that one and how one organism was the ancestor of another. You can watch, for example, as the bones of the reptilian jaw become the bones of the mammalian ear. And if you're willing to do the work, you can even do experiments whereby you directly observe speciation happen in both the lab and the wild.
Again, I have to ask you: What is the specific problem you have with the massive amount of direct evidence we have for evolution?

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Dawn Bertot, posted 05-04-2016 11:57 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Dawn Bertot, posted 05-05-2016 8:39 AM Rrhain has not replied

  
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