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Author Topic:   Terrible news. Just terrible. Urgent issue (antibiotic resistant bacteria hits USA!)
NoNukes
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Posts: 9998
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 31 of 42 (810243)
05-26-2017 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Taq
05-25-2017 6:29 PM


Re: Most deadly superbug (60% die) infected 122 this year (6 in 2016), 3/4 in NY City.
In fact, I will be at a massive conference next week on these very topics, so maybe I can bring back some updates for you.

Cool! I have yet to read anything about this issue that does not sound like the coming of the apocalypse. I look forward to the updates if you can do that.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Taq, posted 05-25-2017 6:29 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Taq, posted 06-07-2017 11:29 AM NoNukes has responded

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 910
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 32 of 42 (810563)
05-30-2017 8:49 PM


Trump budget is bonanza for defense contractors, disastrous for American safety.
See Monday, May 29, 2017 New York Times article, Proposed Cuts Alarm Bioterrorism Experts : 'They're Just Gutting Things ' by Emily Baumgaertner.

The New York Times is pro military spending and they never slant a story as indicating military contracts are corrupt, but the article couldn't help but notice that Americans are not "safe" under the Trump budget as it relates to deadly pathogens.

The various and specific cuts are jaw dropping .

I feel like we are always backtracking on research budgets.

I blame the Democrats more than Trump, because they don't make funding increases a priority, and even if there are some slight increases ( however rare as rare gets to see an actual yearly increase ), it doesn't keep up with inflation .

It was the Republican Senator Arlen Spector, in the 1990s, who last made actual funding increases a priority. He helped bring about a doubling of the NIH budget from 1996 to 2003, as part of his mid 1990s plan.

The budget is presently LOWER than the 2003 high, and before Trump gets his 18% cut.

We need a real opposition party.

Do we all have to drop like flies before it happens?


    
Taq
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Posts: 7201
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 33 of 42 (811349)
06-07-2017 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by NoNukes
05-26-2017 12:31 AM


Re: Most deadly superbug (60% die) infected 122 this year (6 in 2016), 3/4 in NY City.
NoNukes writes:

Cool! I have yet to read anything about this issue that does not sound like the coming of the apocalypse. I look forward to the updates if you can do that.

Got back from the conference yesterday and not a whole lot to report. Most of my time was spent on lectures and posters on other subjects, but I really didn't see anything on a superbug that was resistant to all known antibiotics. What I did see was tons of posters on new antibiotics that were active against bugs that had gained resistance to other antibiotics.

In other news, I attended an interesting symposium on the coevolution of microbiomes and their hosts. As it turns out, the phylogeny of gut bacteria follows the phylogeny of their hosts, especially when there is enough evolutionary distance between species to produce a strong phylogenetic signal. On top of that, transferring the gut bacteria from one species into another can cause disease or developmental issues, at least in the insect gut models that were presented.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by NoNukes, posted 05-26-2017 12:31 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-07-2017 6:26 PM Taq has responded
 Message 37 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-08-2017 10:42 PM Taq has responded
 Message 41 by NoNukes, posted 06-09-2017 2:20 PM Taq has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 910
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 34 of 42 (811419)
06-07-2017 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Taq
06-07-2017 11:29 AM


Re: Most deadly superbug (60% die) infected 122 this year (6 in 2016), 3/4 in NY City.
So what happens when a bug eats another bug? Do the bacteria get destroyed before becoming part of the eater's stomach biota ? Am I saying the question right? This is the bacteria that humans get from the mothers vagina during birth, right? Something that a person needs as part of their internal microbiota?

I never understood this issue.

I heard recently that a child benefits greatly to be around a dog in the early years. All the licking helps to create a resistance to bacteria, and the benefit comes only (?) when exposed in the early years.

Hear anything about phages (phago in Greek has to do with eating and SAR means flesh,so sarcophagus means flesh eater ) ?

Flesh eaters? They eat bacteria, right?

Any mouth wash news?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Taq, posted 06-07-2017 11:29 AM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Taq, posted 06-08-2017 11:07 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7201
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 35 of 42 (811459)
06-08-2017 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by LamarkNewAge
06-07-2017 6:26 PM


Re: Most deadly superbug (60% die) infected 122 this year (6 in 2016), 3/4 in NY City.
LamarckNewAge writes:

So what happens when a bug eats another bug?

Since they tend to be about the same size that isn't what usually happens. Instead, bacteria can release what are called bacteriocins which can cause surrounding bacteria to die and then break apart. The bacteria then soak up the resulting detritus.

This is the bacteria that humans get from the mothers vagina during birth, right? Something that a person needs as part of their internal microbiota?

That is also a very interesting lecture that I attended. As it turns out, vaginal and caesarean birth can have a big impact on the baby's gut flora. It does appear that vaginal birth allows the mother to seed the baby's gut flora. A caesarean birth results in a gut flora that has different ratios of standard bacterial groups which begins to resemble baby's from natural births after about a year.

I heard recently that a child benefits greatly to be around a dog in the early years. All the licking helps to create a resistance to bacteria, and the benefit comes only (?) when exposed in the early years.

I remember something about that, but it is a bit murkier. I think it has something to do with "training" T-cells, if my faulty memory is correct.

Hear anything about phages (phago in Greek has to do with eating and SAR means flesh,so sarcophagus means flesh eater ) ?

Flesh eaters? They eat bacteria, right?

Any mouth wash news?

There were posters and talks on phage, but I didn't attend any of those. I don't remember anything on mouthwash.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-07-2017 6:26 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-08-2017 10:24 PM Taq has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 910
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 36 of 42 (811508)
06-08-2017 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Taq
06-08-2017 11:07 AM


Re: Most deadly superbug (60% die) infected 122 this year (6 in 2016), 3/4 in NY City.
So the bacteria commonly get killed and then detritus gets soaked up by the host's bacteria?

I am going to have to ask what happens when the invading bacteria survive the invasion of the host. And how common is an invasion where the invasive bacterium survives.

How does this relate to evolution and the progressive changes in species?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Taq, posted 06-08-2017 11:07 AM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Taq, posted 06-09-2017 11:19 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 910
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 37 of 42 (811515)
06-08-2017 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Taq
06-07-2017 11:29 AM


Re: Most deadly superbug (60% die) infected 122 this year (6 in 2016), 3/4 in NY City.
Can you please explain the last paragraph of post 33.

This is the issue of "good bacteria " getting taken into custody of the host's gut then passed on to offspring for all future generations.

Are you saying that the typical event of the custody transfer ( for lack of a better description ) is a bad result in action.?

Just like the "bad mutations " of Neo Darwinian theory greatly outnumbering the beneficial ones?

What are the essential developments in this developing story?

This was a great and quite recent thing - good bacteria (with its own DNA independent of the host of the stomach that houses all the various bacteria ) that was constantly being added to the host's gut THEN passed on to offspring!

What exactly was "new" before (the lecture you just heard ) and then your description of what is "newer" (post lecture things ) now?

The next thing you learn will be the "newest" so please keep us updated.

Thanks.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Taq, posted 06-07-2017 11:29 AM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Taq, posted 06-09-2017 11:33 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

    
Larni
Member
Posts: 3951
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 38 of 42 (811527)
06-09-2017 4:02 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Faith
05-28-2016 3:38 AM


Re: Yup, us wackos and bigots see some heavy stuff coming
I'm not sure that you can say that Christian nations make medical discoveries.

That's a strange claim.

Edited by Larni, : No reason given.


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Faith, posted 05-28-2016 3:38 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7201
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 39 of 42 (811586)
06-09-2017 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by LamarkNewAge
06-08-2017 10:24 PM


Re: Most deadly superbug (60% die) infected 122 this year (6 in 2016), 3/4 in NY City.
So the bacteria commonly get killed and then detritus gets soaked up by the host's bacteria?

This is true in some cases. In other cases, it is disease-causing bacteria that kill off the host flora and cause an infection. In other cases, the host flora just outcompetes any disease-causing bacteria or bacteria from other sources.

This is also why people can come down with serious infections after taking antibiotics, which happens to be research I am very familiar with. One of the prime examples is Clostridium difficile colitis which often occurs after a patient takes antibiotics and wipes out their normal flora. C. diff moves in and produces a serious and sometimes chronic and recurring infection. A lot of effort is being put into finding antibiotics that do a better job of preserving a patient's normal flora to prevent these types of opportunistic infections.

How does this relate to evolution and the progressive changes in species?

Evolution in the host can cause the bacteria's environment to change, and the bacteria evolve to that new environment. This process can also occur in the other direction. This process is broadly termed "co-evolution".

One of the interesting presentations I saw was how this type of co-evolution can aid in speciation. They cross bred two wasp species and saw that the hybrid larvae were not as viable as the larvae from intraspecies breeding. What they found is that the gut flora inherited from the mother was not compatible with the hybrid larvae and caused them to be less fit than larvae from intraspecies breeding. Their gut flora had evolved with each species to the point that they were not as compatible with the other species.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-08-2017 10:24 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7201
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 40 of 42 (811587)
06-09-2017 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by LamarkNewAge
06-08-2017 10:42 PM


Re: Most deadly superbug (60% die) infected 122 this year (6 in 2016), 3/4 in NY City.
LarmarckNewAge writes:

Are you saying that the typical event of the custody transfer ( for lack of a better description ) is a bad result in action.?

The transfer of maternal flora to child is usually considered a good thing.

What exactly was "new" before (the lecture you just heard ) and then your description of what is "newer" (post lecture things ) now?

I am not up on all of the literature in that specific field, so I can't confidently answer that question. However, research presented at meetings is usually the latest and newest stuff, so I can pass that on with hopes that it can answer your question.

In the previous study I talked about dealing with the natural v. caesarean births, part of that study was comparing the bacterial genomes found in the mother and child. They were able to track specific lineages of bacteria by measuring single nucleotide polymorphisms (i.e. SNP, or "snips"). Using this information they were able to demonstrate the age at which mother's flora appeared in the baby's gut. With caesarean delivery the mother's flora began appearing at about 1 year, but with natural child birth the mother's flora appeared right after birth.

This type of specific DNA information is probably the latest development in this type of research. They are able to screen vast amounts DNA and RNA to characterize and track complex communities of bacteria. A good analogy is the advancement of CPU speeds over the last 30 years. The ability to produce genetic data has somewhat followed Moore's law. It took a decade to sequence the first human genome, but now a single human genome can be sequenced in a matter of weeks (although with somewhat less coverage and accuracy compared to the human genome project). To use the computer analogy again, they have faster computers, and they have learned how to make multiple faster computers work in parallel with each other.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-08-2017 10:42 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9998
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 41 of 42 (811608)
06-09-2017 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Taq
06-07-2017 11:29 AM


Re: Most deadly superbug (60% die) infected 122 this year (6 in 2016), 3/4 in NY City.
ut I really didn't see anything on a superbug that was resistant to all known antibiotics. What I did see was tons of posters on new antibiotics that were active against bugs that had gained resistance to other antibiotics.

Thanks for bringing back the info. New antibiotics is at least some good news.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Not really, it is a theory that is imposed on nature so consistently that you think you are observing it. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Taq, posted 06-07-2017 11:29 AM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Taq, posted 06-09-2017 3:41 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7201
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 42 of 42 (811611)
06-09-2017 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by NoNukes
06-09-2017 2:20 PM


Re: Most deadly superbug (60% die) infected 122 this year (6 in 2016), 3/4 in NY City.
NoNukes writes:

Thanks for bringing back the info. New antibiotics is at least some good news.

The bad news is that new antibiotics are about $2-3k for a full round, at least here in the US.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by NoNukes, posted 06-09-2017 2:20 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
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