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Author Topic:   Brexit - Should they stay or should they go?
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5164
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 136 of 236 (786984)
06-30-2016 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Theodoric
06-30-2016 10:36 AM


Re: Boris isn't running to be PM
He's a despicable toerag - at best.

He's the general that took his troops into battle and then deserted before the first shot was fired.

Then there's the slimeball Gove who flatly denied wanting the job and even not being capable of it - 5 times, once a couple of weeks ago.

ĒThere are lots of other folk, including in the cabinet, who could easily be prime minister. Iím not one of them. I could not be prime minister. Iím not equipped to be prime minister. I donít want to be prime minister.Ē October 2012

Barring a miracle, we're fucked.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Theodoric, posted 06-30-2016 10:36 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by ringo, posted 06-30-2016 12:18 PM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 139 by Diomedes, posted 06-30-2016 3:52 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13885
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 137 of 236 (786990)
06-30-2016 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by caffeine
06-29-2016 1:56 PM


Re: Tribalism
caffeine writes:

'Dictatoial attitude' in this context meaning what?


You're the one who used the word. I'm suggesting that the time to get out is when the dictator shows up. You seem to be saying we should only get out if the dictator is really bad at it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by caffeine, posted 06-29-2016 1:56 PM caffeine has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by caffeine, posted 07-03-2016 6:05 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13885
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 138 of 236 (786991)
06-30-2016 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Tangle
06-30-2016 11:24 AM


Re: Boris isn't running to be PM
Tangle writes:

He's the general that took his troops into battle and then deserted before the first shot was fired.


You may be right about Boris Johnson specifically but your analogy does't work. The politician who leads a nation into war is seldom the best general to win the war.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Tangle, posted 06-30-2016 11:24 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 668
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 4.8


(3)
Message 139 of 236 (786992)
06-30-2016 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Tangle
06-30-2016 11:24 AM


Re: Boris isn't running to be PM
He's the general that took his troops into battle and then deserted before the first shot was fired.

Then there's the slimeball Gove who flatly denied wanting the job and even not being capable of it - 5 times, once a couple of weeks ago.

Looks like the name they are passing around now is Theresa May. No idea who that is. Mind you, I am an ignorant American.

BBC is now saying it could be a five way race:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36671336

quote:
Justice Secretary Michael Gove and Home Secretary Theresa May lead a five-way race to be the next Conservative Party leader and UK prime minister.

Minister Andrea Leadsom, MP Liam Fox and Work and Pensions Secretary Stephen Crabb are also in the running.


I say to whomever is running: the easiest way to clinch this is to make hats that say 'Make the UK Great Again' and promise to rebuild Hadrian's Wall. Just remember: the wall has to be UUUUGE!!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Tangle, posted 06-30-2016 11:24 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Pressie, posted 07-01-2016 7:25 AM Diomedes has not yet responded
 Message 159 by Diomedes, posted 07-05-2016 10:39 AM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1833
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 140 of 236 (787012)
07-01-2016 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Diomedes
06-30-2016 3:52 PM


Re: Boris isn't running to be PM
As another ignorant person on UK politics, I tried to find out what Theresa's policies on science would be.

Couldn't find much information anywhere except for a few reports on her wanting to send foreign students back to where they came from immediately after graduating. This would include some of the top student scientists in the world being sent away immediately after obtaining that paper officially declaring them to be 'scientists'.

Not a good policy for the UK. Also not a good policy for those students as the research facilities in their home countries are not always up to standard.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Diomedes, posted 06-30-2016 3:52 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by Tangle, posted 07-01-2016 8:05 AM Pressie has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5164
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 141 of 236 (787019)
07-01-2016 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by Pressie
07-01-2016 7:25 AM


Re: Boris isn't running to be PM
She's not anti-science or scientist - or anti-student. But we did have a problem with foreign 'students' coming here to 'study' at fake universities and never going home. She had to tighten up on that. It's just a visa thing really.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Pressie, posted 07-01-2016 7:25 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Pressie, posted 07-01-2016 8:43 AM Tangle has responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1833
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 142 of 236 (787023)
07-01-2016 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by Tangle
07-01-2016 8:05 AM


Re: Boris isn't running to be PM
Tangle writes:

She's not anti-science or scientist - or anti-student. But we did have a problem with foreign 'students' coming here to 'study' at fake universities and never going home. She had to tighten up on that. It's just a visa thing really.

Then tighten up on fake universities. Not students.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Tangle, posted 07-01-2016 8:05 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Tangle, posted 07-01-2016 9:16 AM Pressie has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5164
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 143 of 236 (787029)
07-01-2016 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by Pressie
07-01-2016 8:43 AM


Re: Boris isn't running to be PM
Pressie writes:

Then tighten up on fake universities.

She did.

Not students.

She didn't tighten up on students - other than the fake ones, but she is trying to enforce student visas. They're allowed here to study here on a visa, once their student days are over, they're supposed to go home. A lot weren't doing that. If they want to stay they need another visa - it's fair enough and no different from anywhere else.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Pressie, posted 07-01-2016 8:43 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Pressie, posted 07-01-2016 9:42 AM Tangle has responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1833
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 144 of 236 (787032)
07-01-2016 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by Tangle
07-01-2016 9:16 AM


Re: Boris isn't running to be PM
Tangle writes:

She did.

Not really. Fake universities are still operating all over the UK. With their fake students, too.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Tangle, posted 07-01-2016 9:16 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Tangle, posted 07-01-2016 10:07 AM Pressie has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5164
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 145 of 236 (787033)
07-01-2016 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by Pressie
07-01-2016 9:42 AM


Re: Boris isn't running to be PM
pressie writes:

Not really. Fake universities are still operating all over the UK. With their fake students, too.

I'm sure there are.
Similarly having laws, courts, prisons and a police force hasn't totally stopped crime.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Pressie, posted 07-01-2016 9:42 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Pressie, posted 07-03-2016 7:32 AM Tangle has responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1349
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 146 of 236 (787070)
07-03-2016 6:05 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by ringo
06-30-2016 12:13 PM


Re: Tribalism
You're the one who used the word. I'm suggesting that the time to get out is when the dictator shows up. You seem to be saying we should only get out if the dictator is really bad at it.

I used the word dictatorial to point out that the European Commission isn't. 'Not a dictator' is not the same thing as 'unsuccessful wannabe dictator'.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by ringo, posted 06-30-2016 12:13 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by ringo, posted 07-03-2016 2:25 PM caffeine has not yet responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1833
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 147 of 236 (787071)
07-03-2016 7:32 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by Tangle
07-01-2016 10:07 AM


Re: Boris isn't running to be PM
Sorry, Tangle. I got a bit carried away. I'm not doubting you. I don't know much about British politics.

My experience with the UK system is that my wife got her PhD in Inorganic Chemistry (specialising in some funny mineral containing REE's) from a well-known British Uni and had to leave the UK the day after the graduating ceremony...It worked out very well for us, though.

For most of her fellow 'students' getting PhD's in the natural sciences at the same ceremony (granted, they were only 9), it didn't work out very well, though. Research funding and lab equipment and everything associated with that not available...

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Tangle, posted 07-01-2016 10:07 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Tangle, posted 07-03-2016 8:06 AM Pressie has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5164
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 148 of 236 (787073)
07-03-2016 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by Pressie
07-03-2016 7:32 AM


Re: Boris isn't running to be PM
S'ok.

Studying here doesn't give you rights to remain after - that's always been the case, it's just that it's only fairly recently begun being really enforced. I suspect it's the same in most countries. If an EU citizen comes here to study, they can stay as long as they like of course - but that too will now change.

A bigger threat to universities from Brexit is the European grants which will no longer be available. Europe funds a very large amount of research in the UK.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Pressie, posted 07-03-2016 7:32 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Pressie, posted 07-03-2016 8:57 AM Tangle has responded
 Message 155 by Dr Jack, posted 07-04-2016 7:17 AM Tangle has responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1833
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 149 of 236 (787080)
07-03-2016 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by Tangle
07-03-2016 8:06 AM


Re: Boris isn't running to be PM
Tangle writes:

Studying here doesn't give you rights to remain after - that's always been the case, it's just that it's only fairly recently begun being really enforced.

My wife got her PhD there in 1989. From Exeter University. She had to leave the next day.

So, it's not so recently.

I think that it's bad for the UK and the rest of the world. Luckily for her she had an SA passport where mining companies could provide funding and labs and wonderful equipment to carry on with research.

It would have been so much better for the UK and her to have been allowed to keep on studying those minerals containing REE's from Cornwall where those strange minerals are found. In the UK.

Have you ever seen the faces of customs officers and the inside of police cells around cargo at Heathrow or at OR Tambo going mad about those tons of radioactive rocks being exported or imported? My wife did.

Nowadays the Chinese Government officials through Chinese companies control those REE's.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Tangle, posted 07-03-2016 8:06 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Tangle, posted 07-03-2016 9:49 AM Pressie has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5164
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 150 of 236 (787084)
07-03-2016 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by Pressie
07-03-2016 8:57 AM


Re: Boris isn't running to be PM
Pressie writes:

So, it's not so recently.

It pretty much always been so. But it's only recently that we've been doing anything about those that overstayed their visas. We had no way of 'counting them in and counting them out'.

You need a visa to study here and a visa to work here - it'll be the same in SA I guess? It is in most countries.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Pressie, posted 07-03-2016 8:57 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Pressie, posted 07-03-2016 9:53 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
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