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Author Topic:   Brexit - Should they stay or should they go?
ramoss
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Posts: 3096
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 331 of 413 (844993)
12-09-2018 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 315 by Straggler
11-24-2018 3:33 PM



This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
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Posts: 14630
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 332 of 413 (845001)
12-10-2018 3:31 AM
Reply to: Message 325 by Diomedes
12-05-2018 9:55 AM


Re: Even more Brexit turmoil
The European Court of Justice has ruled that Britain can unilaterally cancel Brexit and keep the current terms of EU membership. The Government, of course, opposed.

I find that surprisingly generous. But it means that “no Brexit” is a real option.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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PaulK
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Posts: 14630
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 333 of 413 (845008)
12-10-2018 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 332 by PaulK
12-10-2018 3:31 AM


Re: Even more Brexit turmoil
And now it seems that May wants to delay (she says “defer”) the vote on her deal and renegotiate the Irish backstop. The SNP want Labour to call a vote of No Confidence. Parliament could vote down the attempt to delay the vote. 5 Tories have already said they will vote against the delay.

The way this is going, May might be moving out of Number Ten pretty soon.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Diomedes
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Posts: 778
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 334 of 413 (845012)
12-10-2018 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 333 by PaulK
12-10-2018 8:57 AM


Re: Even more Brexit turmoil
And now it seems that May wants to delay (she says “defer”) the vote on her deal and renegotiate the Irish backstop

Seems that is official now:

quote:
Theresa May says she has called off Tuesday's crucial vote on her Brexit deal because it would be "would be rejected by a significant margin".

She said MPs backed much of the deal she has struck with the EU but there was concern over the Northern Irish backstop.

But she said she believed she could still get the deal through if she addressed their concerns.

And that, she added, was what she intended to do in the next few days.

She said she would be speaking to EU leaders ahead of a summit later this week.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46509288

Well that is going to be interesting. The EU leaders had stated beforehand that the current deal was 'the only deal'. Not sure how receptive they will be to starting another round of negotiations.

The Pound-Sterling is getting hammered again. Now has dropped to 1.25 to the US dollar. All the uncertainty is causing major issues in the currency and stock markets.

I happened to watch an Intelligence Squared debate about Brexit on the weekend. Was fairly interesting. It's not up on their Youtube channel yet. But in a nutshell, it was three individuals discussing the three potential options on the table. May's Deal. No Deal/New Deal. And finally, a New Referendum. I'll provide a link once its up on Youtube.


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Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 14630
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 335 of 413 (845094)
12-12-2018 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 334 by Diomedes
12-10-2018 11:06 AM


Re: Even more Brexit turmoil
The Brexiteers are trying to get May kicked out. But even if they win she’ll be Prime Minister until the Tories select a new leader. Which will take up to six weeks. So even more Brexit drama (and Tory backstabbing) to come if she goes.

May has cancelled a meeting with Varadkar to fight the party No Confidence vote.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 778
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 336 of 413 (845101)
12-12-2018 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 335 by PaulK
12-12-2018 4:09 AM


Re: Even more Brexit turmoil
According to BBC News, it seems the majority of conservative MPs still support her:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46535739

quote:
So far, 174 Tory MPs have publicly said they will vote for her, with 34 publicly against, according to BBC research. She needs to secure the votes of 158 MPs to survive.

So if that spread holds, she may end up solidifying her position. If she loses, its going to wreak havoc on the already existing Brexit turmoil.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 337 by Tangle, posted 12-12-2018 11:34 AM Diomedes has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6497
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 337 of 413 (845121)
12-12-2018 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 336 by Diomedes
12-12-2018 9:31 AM


Re: Even more Brexit turmoil
Probably 20% are lying.

What a ball-breaking, insane clusterfuck.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 778
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 338 of 413 (845157)
12-12-2018 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 337 by Tangle
12-12-2018 11:34 AM


Re: Even more Brexit turmoil
Just flipped on BBC News and it appears May has won the confidence vote. So she will stay at the helm for now.

Still doesn't solve the problem of the Brexit deal. But at least it should silence some of the more strident voices in her party. Probably reduces the likelihood of anyone calling a general election as well.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by Tangle, posted 12-12-2018 11:34 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Taq
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Posts: 7643
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 339 of 413 (845163)
12-12-2018 5:36 PM


No Brexit?
Is No Brexit even on the table at this point. I don't follow UK politics that closely, but it would seem that given the slim margins for the Brexit victory and the obvious clusterf*** that will be caused by Brexit, is the UK public starting to rethink their vote?
Replies to this message:
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 Message 342 by PaulK, posted 12-13-2018 12:17 AM Taq has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6497
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 340 of 413 (845164)
12-12-2018 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 339 by Taq
12-12-2018 5:36 PM


Re: No Brexit?
The view is that a no-deal Brexit would not pass parliament but the current deal probably won't either so there's an increasing possibility of a slightly tweaked current deal being put to the people for us to decide for them.

Whether that referendum also offers no-Brexit choice and how it's worded will be another massive battle.

But maybe that's just wishful thinking, no-one actually knows.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by Taq, posted 12-12-2018 5:36 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3633
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 341 of 413 (845172)
12-12-2018 7:22 PM


Proud as an Eagle
Y’all should be proud of what’s happening. In your Island Laboratory the world gets to watch the workings of an actual democracy (regards to Her Majesty) under needlessly self-inflicted political stress in all its gory details.

It’s nice to know that we yanks aren’t the only people in the world who insist on screwing ourselves over … and over … and trying to take the whole world down with us.

I do wish things would be otherwise but at least I don’t feel so alone anymore.

You guys rate right up there.


Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 14630
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 342 of 413 (845183)
12-13-2018 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 339 by Taq
12-12-2018 5:36 PM


Re: No Brexit?
No Brexit is on the table in that the Government has the power to back out of Brexit. Whether Parliament has the will to do that is another matter. But at this stage the alternatives are so awful I wouldn’t rule it out. May’s deal is looking dead. A No Deal Brexit isn’t any more popular. Going back to the drawing board and starting again isn’t much better, either.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by Taq, posted 12-12-2018 5:36 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 6497
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 343 of 413 (845184)
12-13-2018 3:06 AM
Reply to: Message 341 by AZPaul3
12-12-2018 7:22 PM


Re: Proud as an Eagle
The only good thing about this entire mess is that we're not going to war over it. It's the democratic process doing its best.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by AZPaul3, posted 12-12-2018 7:22 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 344 by Pressie, posted 12-13-2018 6:46 AM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 345 by AZPaul3, posted 12-13-2018 9:16 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1985
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 344 of 413 (845192)
12-13-2018 6:46 AM
Reply to: Message 343 by Tangle
12-13-2018 3:06 AM


Re: Proud as an Eagle
Probably realistic, but I know and worked with quite a few Northern Irish Brits and Irish persons who wouln't be too happy about that one. The peace treaty is going to be non-applicable. The Good Friday Agreement. Expect IRA bombs in London again.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3633
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 345 of 413 (845195)
12-13-2018 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 343 by Tangle
12-13-2018 3:06 AM


Re: Proud as an Eagle
I don't think there is anything "good" about this situation and I hope you all can avoid punching each other in the nose.

The society trying to solve this problem is the same one that lacked the political suave to have avoided this mess in the first place. Can the institutions, having been thrown into a field of muck were every direction open is further into the muck, find a consensus on which path to take without popping people in the nose? Can you arrive at a lose-lose solution you can all agree with?

Can someone please explain some of the details of the Irish situation in this controversy? What are the issues there?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by Tangle, posted 12-13-2018 3:06 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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