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Author Topic:   The Great Creationist Fossil Failure
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 256 of 1163 (787308)
07-09-2016 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Faith
07-09-2016 12:43 PM


Re: Paleogeology resources
Faith writes:
... unlike the expertise required to fly a 747, one would think the geology professionals would want the average person to have access to such basic data.
The geology professionals are busy doing geology just like the aviation professionals are busy doing aviation. They don't have much interest in dumbing down their expertise for you just so you can tell them they're wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Faith, posted 07-09-2016 12:43 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by Faith, posted 07-09-2016 1:48 PM ringo has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 257 of 1163 (787309)
07-09-2016 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Faith
07-09-2016 12:43 PM


Re: Paleogeology resources
Faith writes:
...one would think the geology professionals would want the average person to have access to such basic data.
The average person has total and full access.
School text books are available at every level of interest, there are public museums everywhere, you can walk into a university library and pick up a book, there's loads of 101 stuff on the web. But if you want to debate with professionals, you have to learn like the professionals.
Your problem is that you're trying to argue from ignorance about stuff that has been studied for literally millions of man-years by professionals. You can't take on geology, molecular biology, evolutionary biology, nuclear physics, dendrochronology, palaeontology from your armchair without a single qualification to your name - then complain that you don't understand it but it's all wrong anyway.
I'm lost in wonder at the hubris of it.
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Faith, posted 07-09-2016 12:43 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Faith, posted 07-09-2016 1:55 PM Tangle has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 258 of 1163 (787310)
07-09-2016 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by ringo
07-09-2016 1:10 PM


Re: Paleogeology resources
Science is regularly presented to the public. No reason whatever that the fossil record wouldn't be also, at least comprehensive digests of the whole panorama of information rather than the bits and pieces we usually get.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by ringo, posted 07-09-2016 1:10 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by ringo, posted 07-10-2016 2:15 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 259 of 1163 (787311)
07-09-2016 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Faith
07-09-2016 12:17 PM


Re: Paleogeology resources
It's nice to know all that information is available, as I thought it ought to be, but unfortunately it's not exactly layman-friendly. To make use of it to study the claims of the fossil record would require a lot of translation of terms for starters.
There are probably dictionaries online too. I'd guess.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Faith, posted 07-09-2016 12:17 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 260 of 1163 (787312)
07-09-2016 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Tangle
07-09-2016 1:23 PM


Re: Paleogeology resources
I'm not in the slightest interested in "taking on" the details of all science. I have a few issues that interest me, and in this case it would be very helpful to have a larger overview of the whole range of fossils discovered and their locations and so on than is usually presented to the public. I know you would like to define for me what I SHOULD be interested in but oddly enough I do have an agenda of my own that you apparently don't grasp.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Tangle, posted 07-09-2016 1:23 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Tangle, posted 07-09-2016 3:11 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 262 by edge, posted 07-09-2016 4:10 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 263 by jar, posted 07-09-2016 5:19 PM Faith has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 261 of 1163 (787314)
07-09-2016 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Faith
07-09-2016 1:55 PM


Re: Paleogeology resources
Faith writes:
. I know you would like to define for me what I SHOULD be interested in but oddly enough I do have an agenda of my own that you apparently don't grasp.
Your agenda is in plain sight and is extremely easy to grasp.
Your problem is that your agenda isn't science's agenda. Science is not going to bend to your personal requirements. If you want to understand it, you have to make the effort. Complaints that you can't, but that you're right anyway, are rather laughable don't you think?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Faith, posted 07-09-2016 1:55 PM Faith has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(2)
Message 262 of 1163 (787317)
07-09-2016 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Faith
07-09-2016 1:55 PM


Re: Paleogeology resources
I'm not in the slightest interested in "taking on" the details of all science.
Well, then you've got a problem. The thing about all of that information out there is that you have to want to access it and understand it. Casually dismissing it is not the way to gain an understanding.
It is the nature of an advanced science to have generated huge amounts of information. It cannot all be presented to the general public, but textbooks, science publications and universities are glad to help.
I have a few issues that interest me, and in this case it would be very helpful to have a larger overview of the whole range of fossils discovered and their locations and so on than is usually presented to the public.
Well, we can't do that here, even though we have tried to some degree to help.
I know you would like to define for me what I SHOULD be interested in ...
Right. I'm sure you would know how to create a curriculum of geological courses.
... but oddly enough I do have an agenda of my own ...
No kidding ...
... that you apparently don't grasp.
Yep, it's all us. Nothing to do with your presentation. Nothing to do with your admitted and willful ignorance.
And it's our problem...
Sorry, Faith, but a little humility would do you a world of good.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Faith, posted 07-09-2016 1:55 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(3)
Message 263 of 1163 (787321)
07-09-2016 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Faith
07-09-2016 1:55 PM


Re: Paleogeology resources
Faith writes:
I'm not in the slightest interested in "taking on" the details of all science
And that is why you will continue to be willfully ignorant when it comes to science, geology, anthropology, physics, history and reality.
Faith writes:
I know you would like to define for me what I SHOULD be interested in but oddly enough I do have an agenda of my own that you apparently don't grasp.
Oh, we all grasp your agenda. Dogma over facts. It seems you can add "the Bible" to the list of things where you have not the slightest interested in taking on the details.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Faith, posted 07-09-2016 1:55 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by Faith, posted 07-10-2016 1:59 AM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 264 of 1163 (787334)
07-10-2016 1:59 AM
Reply to: Message 263 by jar
07-09-2016 5:19 PM


Re: Paleogeology resources
You are requiring of me far more than is expected of a scientist in any particular field.
Also you obviously have no idea of my agenda, why I prefer particular arguments over others.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by jar, posted 07-09-2016 5:19 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by NoNukes, posted 07-10-2016 2:11 AM Faith has replied
 Message 267 by jar, posted 07-10-2016 8:58 AM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 265 of 1163 (787335)
07-10-2016 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 264 by Faith
07-10-2016 1:59 AM


Re: Paleogeology resources
You are requiring of me far more than is expected of a scientist in any particular field.
It might well be reasonable for a biologist not to study genetics, for example, if he is not going to expound on traits are formed. But if he wanted to discuss an evolution topic that touched on genetics, we would certainly expect him to make some study of the topics. But as long as he is 'staying in his lane' no one expects a scientist to know everything. If a biologist were to give us some bad info and then tell us that he was not interested in a related topic that contradicted him, then he'd get the some treatment you get here.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Faith, posted 07-10-2016 1:59 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Faith, posted 07-10-2016 3:07 AM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 266 of 1163 (787336)
07-10-2016 3:07 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by NoNukes
07-10-2016 2:11 AM


Re: Paleogeology resources
That is an unfair requirement when the point is a very limited point that does not require extensive knowledge of a whole field. But of course unnecessary and extravagant requirements serve the goal of defeating the creationist by hook or by crook.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by NoNukes, posted 07-10-2016 2:11 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-10-2016 2:38 PM Faith has replied
 Message 288 by NoNukes, posted 07-12-2016 1:17 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 267 of 1163 (787339)
07-10-2016 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 264 by Faith
07-10-2016 1:59 AM


Re: Paleogeology resources
Well, no, I am not requiring anything of you I would not expect from anyone that is honest, scientist or layman.
Faith writes:
Also you obviously have no idea of my agenda, why I prefer particular arguments over others.
Of course I and most everyone else is fully aware of your agenda; you want to try to explain away the obvious factual errors found throughout the Bible stories. Unfortunately that is impossible and no one has ever been able to provide ANY flood model that explains the actual evidence.
Oh, the apologists can make shit up and the Christian Cult of Ignorance will swallow their nonsense, but all they have is still just nonsense.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Faith, posted 07-10-2016 1:59 AM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(4)
Message 268 of 1163 (787343)
07-10-2016 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by Faith
07-09-2016 1:48 PM


Re: Paleogeology resources
Faith writes:
Science is regularly presented to the public. No reason whatever that the fossil record wouldn't be also, at least comprehensive digests of the whole panorama of information rather than the bits and pieces we usually get.
As a creationist, comprehensive information is not your friend. The deeper you dig, the harder it is to get out of the hole.
And the bizarre irony of it is you complaining that the information that will sink your boat is not accessible enough.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Faith, posted 07-09-2016 1:48 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 269 of 1163 (787345)
07-10-2016 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Faith
07-10-2016 3:07 AM


Re: Paleogeology resources
That is an unfair requirement when the point is a very limited point that does not require extensive knowledge of a whole field.
I'm puzzled now, Faith, because didn't you ask for a list of ALL THE FOSSILS?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Faith, posted 07-10-2016 3:07 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by Faith, posted 07-10-2016 11:10 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 270 of 1163 (787348)
07-10-2016 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by Dr Adequate
07-10-2016 2:38 PM


Re: Paleogeology resources
I would like to be able to see how the claim of the fossil order holds up across all the evidence, not particularly for the sake of my own arguments, however. I'm glad to know the information is out there, but I don't think I'll be able to sort through it to answer my questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-10-2016 2:38 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by Tangle, posted 07-11-2016 2:59 AM Faith has replied

  
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