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Author Topic:   Can fundamentalists explain Job 26:12-13 for me?
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2131 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 76 of 114 (787462)
07-14-2016 10:50 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by LamarkNewAge
07-14-2016 1:19 PM


Re: Zoroastrianism is the reason the Ols Testament has ressurrection (albeit late).
LNA writes:
What is wrong with this conservative source?
Why do you characterize it as a "conservative" source? (Their notes don't seem very "conservative" to me.). Why do you only look at this one source, and refuse to look at other translations and sources?
I suggest looking at a number of good, modern translations (NASB, NIV, ESV, NET, HCSB, etc). Most of these can be found at BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.; the NET Bible with notes can be found at Matthew 1 | NET Bible.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-14-2016 1:19 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-15-2016 12:16 PM kbertsche has replied
 Message 78 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-15-2016 2:12 PM kbertsche has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 77 of 114 (787481)
07-15-2016 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by kbertsche
07-14-2016 10:50 PM


Re: Zoroastrianism is the reason the Ols Testament has ressurrection (albeit late).
quote:
Why do you characterize it as a "conservative" source? (Their notes don't seem very "conservative" to me.). Why do you only look at this one source, and refuse to look at other translations and sources?
Catholic Bishops have been packed packed packed with conservatives since John Paul II was Pope (the one from around 1980 to around 2005 or 2006), and Ratzinger was even more conservative.
Even the 20 years (or so) of liberal Popes from the late 1950s to the late 1970s saw not so liberal Bishops appointed by them. Like John Paul II.
Catholics have always been one of the conservative churches anyway.
quote:
I suggest looking at a number of good, modern translations (NASB, NIV, ESV, NET, HCSB, etc). Most of these can be found at BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.; the NET Bible with notes can be found at Matthew 1 | NET Bible.
I was attacked by a fundamentalist earlier for using the NIV for Is. 27 and the Leviathan verse.
Anyway, I do use multiple translations, but I don't "translation shop".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by kbertsche, posted 07-14-2016 10:50 PM kbertsche has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by kbertsche, posted 07-15-2016 2:14 PM LamarkNewAge has replied
 Message 80 by NoNukes, posted 07-15-2016 2:22 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 78 of 114 (787483)
07-15-2016 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by kbertsche
07-14-2016 10:50 PM


Catholic Bishops conservative? Hell yea.
quote:
How Pope Francis is stealthily reforming the most conservative institution on Earth
Damon Linker
e Roman Catholic Church is hands down the most conservative institution in the world.
By this I don't merely mean that it upholds a set of conservative religious ideas, although it most certainly does. I'm talking about the institution itself and the way it interacts with those ideas. With 2,000 years of tradition weighing on its shoulders, a theological commitment to defer to that tradition, an ecclesial habit of "thinking in terms of centuries," and a baroque structure of governance headed exclusively by appointees, run by often-corrupt, back-scratching bureaucrats, and lacking in even the slightest semblance of democratic accountability, the Catholic Church is one of the most sluggish, inertia-prone institutions imaginable.
....
Over 34 long years, Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI had appointed an enormous number of conservative bishops.
http://theweek.com/...ng-most-conservative-institution-earth
The ultra right-wing Andrew Breitbart sees "liberalism" in everything not 100% right wing. He would attack callers on C-SPAN who were anti-war yet called in on the Republican line. He refused to consider any anti-war person a Republican and wouldn't respond to their comments to discredit them. Callers were shouting in protest that they were true Republicans. "liberal" "liberal" "liberal" is the mantra that site levels at anybody to the left of Atilla the Hun.
quote:
US Bishops Elect Conservative 'Dream Team' for 2015 Rome Marriage Summit
In the wake of the confusing meeting in October, the American bishops are taking no chances with next year’s conclusion to the two-part marriage summit. They have sent a strong message, electing a solidly conservative team of bishops to represent the U.S. Church.
The president and vice president of the U.S. Bishops Conference, Archbishop Joseph Kurtz of Louisville and Cardinal Daniel DiNardo of Galveston-Houston, both with impeccable orthodox credentials, were a shoe-in for the team of four. Philadelphia’s Archbishop Charles Chaput, perhaps the strongest conservative voice in the U.S. episcopate, was also selected, joined by his protg, Archbishop Jos Gomez of Los Angeles, a member of Opus Dei.
The October summit sent mixed signals to Catholics around the world, due to a botched mid-summit message that seemed to question Catholic doctrine regarding the morality of homosexual relations and extramarital sex, and a media-driven narrative of liberal pope versus conservative bishops.
Now the U.S. bishops have taken matters into their own hands, leaving no room for doubt regarding where they stand.
....
US Bishops Elect Conservative 'Dream Team' for 2015 Rome Marriage Summit
Then
quote:
With Synod Picks, U.S. Bishops Lean Conservative - Newsweek
http://www.newsweek.com/...-philadelphia-and-l-attend-2015-m...
Nov 18, 2014 - The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) last week announced the selection of four ... The choices, whether conservative or moderate, were expected by some to shed light on how much the .... Most Read ...
On theological issues, the Catholic Bishops are conservative.
The political stances are more complicated, but the conservative theology drives their positions on many issues.
My source was conservative in every sense of the word.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by kbertsche, posted 07-14-2016 10:50 PM kbertsche has not replied

  
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2131 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 79 of 114 (787484)
07-15-2016 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by LamarkNewAge
07-15-2016 12:16 PM


Re: Zoroastrianism is the reason the Ols Testament has ressurrection (albeit late).
LNA writes:
Catholic Bishops have been packed packed packed with conservatives since John Paul II was Pope (the one from around 1980 to around 2005 or 2006), and Ratzinger was even more conservative.
Even the 20 years (or so) of liberal Popes from the late 1950s to the late 1970s saw not so liberal Bishops appointed by them. Like John Paul II.
Catholics have always been one of the conservative churches anyway.
"Conservatism" vs "liberalism" is not a simple question. Catholics are very conservative in some areas, but liberal in others.
I was attacked by a fundamentalist earlier for using the NIV for Is. 27 and the Leviathan verse.
Yes, some fundamentalists think that the KJV is best, and that anything else is inferior. They won't be any happier with your use of a Catholic translation than the NIV. (Most Protestants are very skeptical of Catholic translations and interpretations. The Catholic Church has elevated "tradition" to have an equal authority to Scripture, so they allow their tradition to color their interpretation of Scripture.)
Anyway, I do use multiple translations, but I don't "translation shop".
I'm not at all suggesting that you "translation shop". I'm suggesting that you try to understand what the text is really saying. The best way to do this is to read it in the original language (Hebrew, not KJV!). But for those who don't read Hebrew, the second best is to read the text in multiple translations. This is NOT for the purpose of "translation shopping" to pick the one that you like best; it is more for "translation averaging" and for getting an idea of the possible range of meanings of the original text.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-15-2016 12:16 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by NoNukes, posted 07-15-2016 2:25 PM kbertsche has not replied
 Message 84 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-15-2016 5:12 PM kbertsche has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 80 of 114 (787485)
07-15-2016 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by LamarkNewAge
07-15-2016 12:16 PM


Re: Zoroastrianism is the reason the Ols Testament has ressurrection (albeit late).
Catholics have always been one of the conservative churches anyway.
With regard to understanding how fundamentalists view the Bible, Catholics are often not a great source. In particular, with regards to things involving a literal interpretation of evolution and the origin of the universe, Catholics are far more mainstream in their beliefs. Is that really a truth that you want to dispute? Catholics also differ from fundamentalists on small things related to salvation as well.
In fact, if you want to use Catholics as an example of how fundamentalists doctrine works, you've got a lot of ground work to lay. I doubt that it would even be worthwhile to do that work.
Whether or not Catholics are more politically liberal than fundamentalists is quite another question, but one that is not germane to this discussion. What is the case is that Catholics are not fundamentalists. There are parts of the Bible that the interpret far more literally than protestants and parts on which they are simply not literalists in any fashion. In fact Catholics have extra books in their Bible. Beyond that many fundamentalists rail against the Catholic Church, with some going so far as to consider the Pope the anti-Christ. Surely you know this already?
I was attacked by a fundamentalist earlier for using the NIV for Is. 27 and the Leviathan verse.
Duh!

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-15-2016 12:16 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 114 (787486)
07-15-2016 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by kbertsche
07-15-2016 2:14 PM


Re: Zoroastrianism is the reason the Ols Testament has ressurrection (albeit late).
But for those who don't read Hebrew, the second best is to read the text in multiple translations. This is NOT for the purpose of "translation shopping" to pick the one that you like best; it is more for "translation averaging" and for getting an idea of the possible range of meanings of the original text.
I would do this for the purpose of debates like this one, but I would not recommend this as a general practice for Christians. Some translations are just wrong.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by kbertsche, posted 07-15-2016 2:14 PM kbertsche has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 82 of 114 (787488)
07-15-2016 3:41 PM


"Conservatism" vs "liberalism" is not a simple question. - and I quoted kbertsche
Can we agree that this is a liberal source? With liberal references in his scholarship links?
Jesus Never Existed, After All | HuffPost Latest News
Now the site is politically liberal.
The article is from a historically liberal person with regards to New Testament scholarship.
But the site isn't exactly liberal in the way the article author is on historical and New Testament issues.
It is complicated.
I understand it all.

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 83 of 114 (787489)
07-15-2016 4:01 PM


the "liberal" Guardian of Europe writes a "conservative" piece?
Parts of Bible may have been written earlier than expected, archaeologists say | The Bible | The Guardian
Parts of Bible may have been written earlier than expected, archaeologists say
Using handwriting analysis technology, team found that a famous hoard of ancient Hebrew inscriptions were written by at least six different authors
This would support the idea that the Hebrew Bible predated the Babylonian Exile.
Is the Guardian "conservative" now?
Would fundamentalists agree with The Guardian over this site below (another of which has an author that wants to deny the existence of Jesus)?
Did Jesus really exist? - Macleans.ca
Does that make the Guardian "conservative"
John Dominic Crossan talked about the irony that he, once regarded as a "liberal", is now a "moderate", with all those around who make the case that Jesus never existed.
Bart Ehrman, recently, made the case that Jesus existed and is widely referenced by fundamentalists.
See this reference for an example
quote:
6 Shocking New Discoveries About Jesus of Nazareth
TheBlaze.com-Dec 22, 2015
However, in just the past few years archaeologists have uncovered some ... that of James the Just, the brother, step-brother or close relative of Jesus. ... including identifying Aramaic phrases embedded in the Greek texts of the ...
6 Shocking New Discoveries About Jesus of Nazareth - TheBlaze
I expected this fundi site below to reference Ehrman but it appears not to. I'm sure I could find a reference if I searched hard enough.
Sorry! - Deseret News
Ehrman gets letters from fundi scholars saying things like, "you are doing our dirty work for us" when he argues forcefully for the evidence of existence for Jesus.

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 84 of 114 (787491)
07-15-2016 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by kbertsche
07-15-2016 2:14 PM


"the original language (Hebrew, not KJV!)."
quote:
I'm not at all suggesting that you "translation shop". I'm suggesting that you try to understand what the text is really saying. The best way to do this is to read it in the original language (Hebrew, not KJV!). But for those who don't read Hebrew, the second best is to read the text in multiple translations. This is NOT for the purpose of "translation shopping" to pick the one that you like best; it is more for "translation averaging" and for getting an idea of the possible range of meanings of the original text.
Our disagreement with Psalms 49 and 73 is one of interpretation.
The disagreement over Job 26:12-13 is the one where the translation of all modern scholars is being denied by some (not you though?)
I have now shown that both the NRSV and Catholic Bishops support the standard modern translation of Job 26. (which fits in with the Septuagint of 200 BCE).
Getting the "conservatives" to admit that Genesis 1 and the textual description there supports the notion of a universe of water held back by a firmament (whether an actual dome or atmospheric barrier to the waters above is another issue) is another issue.
But, lets look at the language and what "heavens" (Hebrew shamayim can be considered plural or singular as it has a plural ending) means. It is the word in Genesis 1.
And God said:
'Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters.'
waters is mayim in Hebrew. A plural ending.
water or waters can be the translation.
Here will be links from http://jbqnew.jewishbible.org/...loads/403/jbq_403_mayim.pdf
quote:
Thereafter, in verses 7-8, the waters were split into the waters above and
below the expanse (raki'a); later, on the second day, the expanse separating the
waters came to be called shamayim (sky). In verses 9-10 the water below the
sky was rearranged to form sea and dry land, "the earth." Through these passages
we may rightly visualize water and soil all mixed up before Creation. Set
in the design of "chaos-order", the muddy space was subsequently divided to
expose a new substance, the earth, on which the terrestrial creatures might live.
Nations of antiquity regarded the expanse called shamayim (sky) as a kind of
dome supporting the water above so that it would not leak and collapse. That is
why some passages in the Bible variously describe the expanse as the pillars of heaven (Job 26:11) and the foundations of heaven (II Sam. 22:8). It seems
probable that the dome was also understood to be hard and transparent, like a
sheet of glass or a space packed with air. Ancient folk might therefore have
believed that the dome was pushing hard against the water above and the water
below, which once formed a single body but were now split as a "pair".
....
The article goes on to explain that it makes sense if one sees the division of the waters by a firmament INTO TWO PARTS as the reason for the plural ending for the word that can be used as a singular type of word "water". A very rare situation.
quote:
The word shamayim (sky, heaven), which is closely associated with water in
the cosmologies and takes the same intriguing dual ending, could be explained
in the same manner. A point of interest here is that fact that the words denoting
"sky' in the Semitic languages are all spelled by prefixing s/sh to the words
meaning "water" in general.16 Simply understood, for example, shamayim in
Hebrew or Aramaic and am in Akkadian could be seen as a term combining
"of/one of which"(a) and "waters" (mayim/m). One might therefore assume
that the sky was "one of the waters/of the waters." Or, as Gerardo Sachs
maintains, since the Hebrew letter shin "placed before a three-letter root extends
the underlying idea to the utmost", sha-mayim is the superlative of
mayim, which suggests that there was water above the sky.17 This kind of idea,
though proposed by some, is usually rejected. J.A. Soggin criticizes such a
notion as a conceit of popular etymology that takes advantage of the assonance
of the words.
18 However, I would contend that popular etymology is in fact a
sensible way to figure out the development of a word circulated, verbally or
literally, among primitive peoples. As for those fundamental terms, water and
sky, their development could have been fostered by the utterly practical linguistic
exercises of the common people in their understanding of a word's form,
whatever the rules of grammar might say. A prime example discussed here is
mayim (water), which ancient folk clearly perceived and articulated as a pair.
It says Shamu is the Akkadian word for heavens.
Sha means "one of" in Akkadian
mu is the word for water in Akkadian (may plus the im plural ending makes mayim in Hebrew)
Yom is the Hebrew word for day(and the word yom is also meaning "storm" in Job) and it is umma in Sumerian. Both "day" and "storm" were umma before becoming yom in Hebrew. I think day is um(U) in Akkadian but Im not sure.
The strange case of the plural Hebrew word of "water" and "heaven" could be explained in this way.
mayim "water" or "waters"
shamayim "heaven" or "heavens"
The possibility further backs up the plain reading of the text which has water above and water below the firmament.
It works according to the rules of Semitic languages and transmigration of words.
It fits in with the concepts the people held.
It fits scripture.
Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by kbertsche, posted 07-15-2016 2:14 PM kbertsche has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 85 of 114 (787559)
07-17-2016 4:18 PM


Been trying to find references to the firmament and sun.
I did a google search to see if there was any archaeological artwork. I was hoping to find Jewish artwork.
Google
I found what might be a Talmud quote in a free journal article.
quote:
Archaeological Discussions - jstor
JSTOR: Access Check
JSTOR
by WN Bates - ‎1913
Centaurs in Ancient Art. - In his Centaurs in Ancient Art Professor. PAUL V. C. .... among the monuments discovered in the Royal Tombs at Abydos and. Nagada ...... Talmud: "It seems to thee as if the sun rubbed itself across the firmament, ...... the central mass, the dome and lantern, the wide arcades in the original project ...
Its a long article that is flipping slowly.
There is Classical Christian commentary that is quoted.
Big Christian players too.
These ancient comments should not be ignored. But they seem to be.

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2329 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 86 of 114 (808705)
05-12-2017 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by LamarkNewAge
07-06-2016 11:06 AM


Re: Text of Job 26.
Interesting, I know about Rahab , the Lords harlot, saved and forgiven.. but never focused in on your verses.... Job Yes, but Rahab..... in the waters NO....
I like solving mysteries and so let me think and pray about it.

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-06-2016 11:06 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Davidjay, posted 05-12-2017 9:58 AM Davidjay has replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2329 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 87 of 114 (808706)
05-12-2017 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Davidjay
05-12-2017 9:56 AM


Re: Text of Job 26.
First, worldly Jews, unebelieving Jews like worldly Christians and unbelieveing Christians can deem Job and Gensis as myths, but logical rational scientific real Christians and real Jews would not.
Its literal and means what it says when taken together with all other scriptures and science and math, etc etc...
So clean up your fragments in your mind and start a fresh.

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Davidjay, posted 05-12-2017 9:56 AM Davidjay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Davidjay, posted 05-12-2017 11:10 AM Davidjay has replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2329 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 88 of 114 (808721)
05-12-2017 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by Davidjay
05-12-2017 9:58 AM


Re: Text of Job 26.
Let me first answer you Land.. before the others come and demand answers for their questions... so as to stop discussions.
**********************
Job 26:1 But Job answered and said,
Job 26:2 How hast thou helped [him that is] without power? [how] savest thou the arm [that hath] no strength?
Job 26:3 How hast thou counselled [him that hath] no wisdom? and [how] hast thou plentifully declared the thing as it is?
Job 26:4 To whom hast thou uttered words? and whose spirit came from thee?
Job 26:5 Dead [things] are formed from under the waters, and the inhabitants thereof.
Job 26:6 Hell [is] naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.
Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, [and] hangeth the earth upon nothing.
Job 26:8 He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them.
Job 26:9 He holdeth back the face of his throne, [and] spreadeth his cloud upon it.
Job 26:10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
Job 26:11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.
Job 26:12 He divideth the sea with his power, and by his understanding he smiteth through the proud.
Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.
Job 26:14 Lo, these [are] parts of his ways: but how little a portion is heard of him? but the thunder of his power who can understand?
********************************
So do note first of all, that the Earth is hung upon nothing.... it is a planet and is a circle or sphere as mentioned elsewhere in the Old Testament. And note how Job blasts the heathen and those in hell etc.... as they have no covering...
Note, that in this same verse, there is an empty space in the north... this being confirmed by astronomers ..... in our time, but lets move on... to the topic more specifically.
Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.
Crooked serpent, is that what was translated as Rahab in new translations. KJV says crooked serpent and usually this is the best and most consistent translation, rather than Rahab.
Lets look into this ?
Crooked serpent makes sense, because leviathon was a sea serpent and these sea serpents survived the world wide flood... and leviathon is talked about throughout Job.
But Ill have to refresh my memory and do more research and figure out this mystery.
Its also beneficial for evolutionists who should be aware of the bible references to stars, and to sea monsters IE Large reptiles in the water or seas, and on land behemoths as again mentioned in Job.
Jobs dating is after Creation and not before in some wierd evolutionary eon or era or age.
He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, [and] hangeth the earth upon nothing.

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Davidjay, posted 05-12-2017 9:58 AM Davidjay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Davidjay, posted 05-12-2017 11:20 AM Davidjay has replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2329 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 89 of 114 (808726)
05-12-2017 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by Davidjay
05-12-2017 11:10 AM


Re: Text of Job 26.
Landmark, to get away from the various translations, leading to semantic differences, I shall stick to the tried and proven KJV....only.
Rahab, which I had never read before in Job, seems to be some sort of translation of some version concerning the serpent, or monster or sea reptile, that Job refers to... rather confusing, using the Name Rahab for a sea reptile complicating the great story and truth and true history of Rahab the harlot who helped the faithful Jews to conquer Jericho..
SEE WallsofJericho
So there be our first answer.... poor translation, but lets stick to the meaning of the word.... crooked serpent or sea reptile.... so we get away from the semantics that some seminarians or cemetarians get into to justify their semantic studies. and a wasting away of their lifes.

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Davidjay, posted 05-12-2017 11:10 AM Davidjay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Davidjay, posted 05-12-2017 11:23 AM Davidjay has replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2329 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 90 of 114 (808727)
05-12-2017 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Davidjay
05-12-2017 11:20 AM


Re: Leviathon is crooked serpent of Job 26
The crooked serpent of Job 26 is referenced many times by Job in His BOOK of TRUTH.
Great read for anyone, great moral, great TRUTHS.
SEE Google search as levaithon is the crooked serpent mentioned elsewhere
leviathan bible verse - Google Search
Ok study these websites and read your KJV and reply with comments etc..
Get back to me on this before others try and interuprt this discussion.
Thanks
Yours Truly
David
Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.

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The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Davidjay, posted 05-12-2017 11:20 AM Davidjay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Davidjay, posted 05-12-2017 6:47 PM Davidjay has replied

  
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