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Author Topic:   Still small voice of God found
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2 of 77 (789628)
08-17-2016 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tangle
08-17-2016 2:59 AM


God In A Box
Way to put God in a box, Bro!
God created your brain long before you were even capable of figuring it out! That being said, this is/was useful information.
It explains why atheists as well as believers in false religions are even any good at all! Humans are capable of empathy. It is a gift.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tangle, posted 08-17-2016 2:59 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Tangle, posted 08-17-2016 10:16 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 4 by ringo, posted 08-17-2016 11:56 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 27 of 77 (789727)
08-18-2016 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by GDR
08-18-2016 1:36 PM


Whatever
GDR,responding to Ringo writes:
I agree it is not a perfect world. Natural disasters and disease are a part of it. If there is no prime mover then natural evolutionary processes hasn't been so hot either. However, IMHO God does deal with these things by working through the hearts of people to bring some relief to those who suffer from these things.
We either believe in a Creator of all seen and unseen who actually has an interest in us as humans...so much so that He was made man.....or we end up with the "whatever" school of random chance. I may have mentioned before that I do not believe in chance.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by GDR, posted 08-18-2016 1:36 PM GDR has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Tangle, posted 08-18-2016 4:41 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 28 of 77 (789728)
08-18-2016 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by ringo
08-18-2016 2:27 PM


Re: God In A Box
Ringo writes:
Evolution is a natural process; what happens happens, whether anybody likes it or not. It's hard to conceive of a "prime mover" that would provide such aimless motion.
Agreed. i cannot conceive of a "prime mover" who is impersonal and random.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by ringo, posted 08-18-2016 2:27 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by ringo, posted 08-19-2016 11:40 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 30 of 77 (789745)
08-18-2016 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Tangle
08-18-2016 4:41 PM


Re: Whatever
So how do you determine chance if you cannot determine probability?
One cannot say that there is a "high liklihood" that something occurred if they cannot nail it down to 51% or greater of if they cannot calculate the exact maths needed.
Evidence requires precise verifiable calculations. Just because they can determine the ingredients does not mean they can replicate the stew.
Also...all three of these documents are arrogant, unsubstantiated, and far from conclusive. Jesus lives...regardless of what the puny human animal thinks about itself and its place in the universe.
Humanist Manifesto
Humanist Manifesti II
Humanist Manifesto III
Oh and by the way...
The universe doesnt care..
The universe is not alive.
Edited by Phat, : added manifesto fiasco
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Tangle, posted 08-18-2016 4:41 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Tangle, posted 08-19-2016 2:16 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 36 of 77 (789768)
08-19-2016 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Pressie
08-19-2016 7:05 AM


Re: God In A Box
I consist of chemicals. Mindless chemicals. I grew in my mother. As mindless particles getting together to what I am today. I'm not too sure why you think it's a problem.
I would argue that if you think your original source was mindless and that there is no God, you are still mindless.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Pressie, posted 08-19-2016 7:05 AM Pressie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Pressie, posted 08-19-2016 8:51 AM Phat has replied
 Message 45 by Riggamortis, posted 08-19-2016 1:05 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 37 of 77 (789769)
08-19-2016 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Tangle
08-19-2016 2:28 AM


Re: God In A Box
Sure, we can make shit up without evidence and replace rational thought with wishful thinking. It's a process mankind has used for thousands of years.
Happily, it's now changing - even your beliefs are much diluted compared to your ancestors. We've chased all Gods back to into deism and may well go further.
And thats the problem. You have effectively replace God with human wisdom. And you see no problem with that.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Tangle, posted 08-19-2016 2:28 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Tangle, posted 08-19-2016 9:08 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 38 of 77 (789770)
08-19-2016 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Pressie
08-19-2016 7:05 AM


Re: God In A Box
Why do you think I'm 'that' aimless?
Quite seriously, Pressie... I wont accuse you of being mindless nor aimless. I just think you have come to some harmful conclusions. There is nothing about a belief in God that should scare you, concern you, or handicap you.
Personally, I find people who have concluded otherwise to have ...well....to have made an error in their thinking.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Pressie, posted 08-19-2016 7:05 AM Pressie has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 40 of 77 (789774)
08-19-2016 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Pressie
08-19-2016 8:51 AM


Re: God In A Box
Should I try to explain it more carefully to be understandable? When some parts of the DNA from my father and some parts of the DNA from my mother combined (by way of chemical reactions), I was formed. Chemicals. All just chemical reactions. I am the result of a chemical reaction. And then, after that, lots and lots of chemical reactions were involved. Now I'm still here more than fifty years later.
Are you concluding that from mindlessness, mindfulness formed?
I suppose my argument necessitates an intelligent designer rather than a random process that leads eventually to mindfulness.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Pressie, posted 08-19-2016 8:51 AM Pressie has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Tangle, posted 08-19-2016 9:16 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 47 of 77 (789801)
08-19-2016 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Riggamortis
08-19-2016 1:05 PM


Re: God In A Box
Just the fact that you label my belief as fantasy puts you at the same level I am at.
Christianity is not a fantasy. Perhaps the Humanist Manifesto folks are also sincere, but in my opinion they too have a fantasy in that they think humanity will solve its problems without need of a God.
Welcome to EvC, by the way. We usually disagree here...and that makes it fun!
I will help you start a topic. I set you up Here. Feel free to add to it or edit it as you wish. One of us will promote it for you after you respond to it.
Edited by Phat, : added new information.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Riggamortis, posted 08-19-2016 1:05 PM Riggamortis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Riggamortis, posted 08-20-2016 6:41 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 51 of 77 (789841)
08-20-2016 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Riggamortis
08-20-2016 6:41 PM


Re: God In A Box
You can delete the other thread.
We close them---we never actually delete threads. My apologies for assuming that you wanted to start one. I have since done as you suggested and started A Believers Critique Of The Humanist Manifesto.
Perhaps they are sincere? What are you trying to imply here? That they know god exists, but are using the guise of helping others as a method to convince people to reject him? You realise it's not just your pet jesus they reject, right?
i am aware of what they reject and address it in my new thread. Perhaps we can discuss it there.
(Once someone promotes it)
Again...welcome to EvC.
Edited by Phat, : spellcheck

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Riggamortis, posted 08-20-2016 6:41 PM Riggamortis has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 74 of 77 (790007)
08-23-2016 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by ringo
08-23-2016 11:52 AM


God steps out of the box yet remains quiet
Ringo writes:
Well, you're arguing against evolutionary theory by bringing God into it. Superfluous additions to reality are just as bad as denying reality.
Oh how we love to argue!
So tell me why evolutionary theory couldn't be factual with God as a reality?
Seems to me that God is not only outside of the box but made the very box possible. That being said, I will agree with the argument that says that God is un necessary to explain evolution.
Thats as far as I will go. I am not prepared to support the idea that God is un necessary period...nor should you, Ringo. Being agnostic is enough for you to handle. Atheism is an unnecessary step.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by ringo, posted 08-23-2016 11:52 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by ringo, posted 08-23-2016 12:15 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 75 of 77 (790008)
08-23-2016 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Tangle
08-22-2016 4:29 PM


Refusal to believe without Evidence
Nothing points to external intervention.
Nothing in your mind, perhaps. But you want it that way.
I have a theory--in general,not about you personally.
Humans that believe in anything prefer their beliefs to be agreeable to themselves.
Humans do not want/need or have to believe in something disagreeable.
My premise is that GOD is agreeable to some and disagreeable to others. I would expect that this by and large determines their stance on His possible/probable existence.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Tangle, posted 08-22-2016 4:29 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Tangle, posted 08-23-2016 12:32 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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