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Author Topic:   Still small voice of God found
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 4 of 77 (789638)
08-17-2016 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Phat
08-17-2016 8:44 AM


Re: God In A Box
Phat writes:
It is a gift.
It's the gift of evolution - like binocular vision and opposable thumbs.
Edited by ringo, : Phixed quote.
Edited by ringo, : Fixed quote again. Now it's twice as right.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 08-17-2016 8:44 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by GDR, posted 08-17-2016 2:17 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 22 of 77 (789709)
08-18-2016 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by GDR
08-17-2016 2:17 PM


Re: God In A Box
GDR writes:
..and evolution is a gift - from God.
Evolution is a gift from Biology, Chemistry, Physics. You might as well say that cancer is a gift from God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by GDR, posted 08-17-2016 2:17 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by GDR, posted 08-18-2016 1:36 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 26 of 77 (789724)
08-18-2016 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by GDR
08-18-2016 1:36 PM


Re: God In A Box
GDR writes:
If there is no prime mover then natural evolutionary processes hasn't been so hot either.
We wouldn't expect it to be. Evolution is a natural process; what happens happens, whether anybody likes it or not. It's hard to conceive of a "prime mover" that would provide such aimless motion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by GDR, posted 08-18-2016 1:36 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 08-18-2016 3:10 PM ringo has replied
 Message 31 by GDR, posted 08-18-2016 7:27 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 43 of 77 (789790)
08-19-2016 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
08-18-2016 3:10 PM


Re: God In A Box
Phat writes:
i cannot conceive of a "prime mover" who is impersonal and random.
Reality is mindless and sometimes random. What I'm saying is that if there is a "prime mover" responsible for that mindlessness, it is necessarily "impersonal".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 08-18-2016 3:10 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 44 of 77 (789791)
08-19-2016 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by GDR
08-18-2016 7:27 PM


Re: God In A Box
GDR writes:
... in order to get from mindless particles to life of any kind let alone sentient life can't be that aimless.
Sure it can. A mountain is complex but nobody suggests that it had to be "designed" by anything but aimless natural processes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by GDR, posted 08-18-2016 7:27 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by GDR, posted 08-19-2016 1:49 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 48 of 77 (789830)
08-20-2016 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by GDR
08-19-2016 1:49 PM


Re: God In A Box
GDR writes:
It is one thing to get to mountains from mindless and probably dimensionless particles, but it is another step further to get to sentient beings with an understanding of morality.
That's an empty claim. In fact, mindless evolution does a better job of explaining morality than religion does. As often as not, it's the mind that gets in the way of morality. And especially, it's the many different "voices of God" that get in the way of morality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by GDR, posted 08-19-2016 1:49 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by GDR, posted 08-20-2016 6:40 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 60 of 77 (789867)
08-21-2016 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by GDR
08-20-2016 6:40 PM


Re: God In A Box
GDR writes:
Certainly we can see that there are natural processes involved but we cannot tell whether or not evolution has an intelligent agent as its cause or not.
So you're just preaching Intelligent Design, which is just another form of creationism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by GDR, posted 08-20-2016 6:40 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by GDR, posted 08-21-2016 9:22 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 67 of 77 (789927)
08-22-2016 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by GDR
08-21-2016 9:22 PM


Re: God In A Box
GDR writes:
I'm theistic so I believe that there is an intelligent designer but I do not agree with "Intelligent Design" the political movement.
That's a pretty fine distinction - like saying you like everything about Donald Trump except his socks.
GDR writes:
They have corrupted a self-explanatory phrase....
It isn't self-explanatory; it's an empty catch-phrase.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by GDR, posted 08-21-2016 9:22 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by GDR, posted 08-22-2016 2:09 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 73 of 77 (790004)
08-23-2016 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by GDR
08-22-2016 2:09 PM


Re: God In A Box
GDR writes:
There is the "Intelligent Design" movement which purports to be scientific and argues against evolutionary theory.
Well, you're arguing against evolutionary theory by bringing God into it. Superfluous additions to reality are just as bad as denying reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by GDR, posted 08-22-2016 2:09 PM GDR has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Phat, posted 08-23-2016 12:04 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 76 of 77 (790009)
08-23-2016 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Phat
08-23-2016 12:04 PM


Re: God steps out of the box yet remains quiet
Phat writes:
So tell me why evolutionary theory couldn't be factual with God as a reality?
Tell me why the Eiffel Tower couldn't be factual with Bigfoot as a reality.
It could. But the Eiffel Tower can be explained quite nicely without reference to Bigfoot, so why bring Bigfoot into it?
Phat writes:
Seems to me that God is not only outside of the box but made the very box possible.
People are always trying to think outside the box before they understand the box. If you haven't studied the box thoroughly, how do you know whether you're inside or out?
Phat writes:
I am not prepared to support the idea that God is un necessary period...nor should you, Ringo.
I'm prepared to support the idea that the god you try to market is not only unnecessary; it's downright detrimental.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Phat, posted 08-23-2016 12:04 PM Phat has not replied

  
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