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Author Topic:   Presuppositionalism
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 31 of 142 (790166)
08-26-2016 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
08-21-2016 9:13 PM


Re: If The Shoe Fits...
Welcome back, ME!!!!!!!
I even suspect that there may be a fall of interpretation so my checklist confirms that I am a presuppositionalist. Now what?
I think it would be most important to realize that every worldview has presuppositions, including atheism. The number of them, the extent of them, is comparable in every worldview.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Phat, posted 08-21-2016 9:13 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by bluegenes, posted 08-27-2016 1:07 AM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 35 by Tangle, posted 08-27-2016 3:04 AM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 32 of 142 (790167)
08-26-2016 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by ringo
08-26-2016 11:41 AM


Re: Evidently Not
That's where you have it wrong. I don't need to "justify" my unbelief. Unbelief is the default condition. I don't need to justify my unbelief in your God any more than you have to justify your unbelief in Odin.
This implication of a neutrality in atheism is common in the atheist scientific world, but the fact is that every WORLDVIEW has opinions on how the world works - how a society should govern itself etc, and those opinions are on equal footing with religion concerning the threat they pose to the people at large which make up a society.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by ringo, posted 08-26-2016 11:41 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Riggamortis, posted 08-27-2016 1:58 AM marc9000 has replied
 Message 39 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-27-2016 10:58 AM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 40 by ringo, posted 08-27-2016 11:46 AM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 43 of 142 (790217)
08-27-2016 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Riggamortis
08-27-2016 1:58 AM


Re: Evidently Not
Welcome Riggamortis, I don't think we've met before.
If you presuppose the bible is true, you can easily dislike people just for being gay, for example.
I don't really agree with that - if a person applies the entire teaching of the Bible to his/her own life, it's not going to be easy to "dislike" someone who doesn't interfere with Bible believers (Christians) lives. What causes most of the dislike today is when gay people suddenly want brand new insertion of their lifestyle into the traditional public institution of marriage.
Which common atheist presuppositions pose a threat to society and how?
The main atheist presupposition is that life originated from naturalistic processes, something they can't prove. Further, their presupposition that there is no God leads directly to their belief that humans are the highest form of intelligence, and basic principles that the U.S. was founded on, like the 10 commandments, become subjective. This quickly balloons into lopsided political opinions, like a fear of global warming.
As an example, there is really no serious threat by the Christian community in the U.S. to give authorities permission to force their way into the private bedrooms of gay people and declare what they're doing to be illegal. But there IS a threat by the secular scientific community to demand that automobiles, after they're sold to a private owner, be monitored and regulated in how the engine is equipped, in the interest of controlling pollution standards that they themselves set.
But my main point is that those with any type of naturalist worldview have presuppositions that are comparable in number, severity, in EVERY way, to the worldview of religious people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Riggamortis, posted 08-27-2016 1:58 AM Riggamortis has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 44 of 142 (790219)
08-27-2016 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Tangle
08-27-2016 3:04 AM


Re: If The Shoe Fits...
Always the same mistake. Atheism is an absense of a religious worldview - it's no more a worldview than a disbelief in the tooth fairies is.
Here's the definition of "worldview";
quote:
1. The overall perspective from which one sees and interprets the world.
2. A collection of beliefs about life and the universe held by an individual or a group. In both senses also called Weltanschauung.
Worldview - definition of worldview by The Free Dictionary
Are you saying that atheists DON'T HAVE a naturalistic perspective from which they see and interpret the world? That they don't have a collection of beliefs about life and the universe?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Tangle, posted 08-27-2016 3:04 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 45 of 142 (790220)
08-27-2016 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by ringo
08-27-2016 11:46 AM


Re: Evidently Not
Who said anything about atheism? I was comparing one god with another.
Let's have a look at your message that I was responding to;
quote:
That's where you have it wrong. I don't need to "justify" my unbelief. Unbelief is the default condition. I don't need to justify my unbelief in your God any more than you have to justify your unbelief in Odin.
[bolded mine] You were referring to YOUR UNBELIEF. Looks like atheism to me.
The o/p implied that presuppositionalism is an issue only with religion. It's equally an issue with atheism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by ringo, posted 08-27-2016 11:46 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-28-2016 12:49 AM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 49 by ringo, posted 08-28-2016 2:08 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
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