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Author Topic:   On the origin of life
jar
Member
Posts: 28435
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 46 of 70 (790787)
09-05-2016 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Faith
09-05-2016 11:48 AM


Re: The Big Lie
Faith writes:


There is no "god character" in the Bible, there is only God Himself. God cannot lie but obviously you can. There is only one Flood in the Bible. Your two floods are just two different accounts of the same Flood.

So you assert Faith yet the two flood stories are mutually exclusive and the god character in Genesis 2 & 3 does lie.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Faith, posted 09-05-2016 11:48 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Lomu
Member (Idle past 97 days)
Posts: 11
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 12-11-2004


Message 47 of 70 (790794)
09-05-2016 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Theodoric
09-05-2016 9:37 AM


Yep- that's if you have a brand-new car Theodoric. But there's not too many of those around just yet- so most cars here still use the ABC-123 scheme.

Of course, it's still not completely cut-and-dried. Victorian government cars will start with an "M" whereas Federal government cars have a special "Z" plate. Hire cars will be a "VHA" etc. My two cars start with a "W" and a "Y".

Edited by Lomu, : Spelling


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Theodoric, posted 09-05-2016 9:37 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 12820
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 48 of 70 (790832)
09-06-2016 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Faith
09-03-2016 2:42 PM


Re: The Big Lie
Faith writes:

You choose to believe the serpent; I choose to believe God.


I just quoted what the Bible says: God confirmed that the serpent was telling the truth.

Faith writes:

You either believe God means good to us or not. Obvious you believe the latter, you believe the serpent, and I believe the former.


No you don't. You believe what apologists and commentators have told you. What the Bible actually says is that God and the serpent agreed: Adam and Eve became more like God. That may or may not be "good for us" but it's what the Bible says. If you're going to be a Bible literalist, you shouldn't throw the Bible out the window.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Faith, posted 09-03-2016 2:42 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Faith, posted 09-06-2016 1:06 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 23978
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 49 of 70 (790840)
09-06-2016 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by ringo
09-06-2016 11:44 AM


Re: The Big Lie
The accord between God and Satan is superficial. What Satan didn't say is that by disobeying we would all lose our connection with God, the first stage of death which is what God said would happen, which Satan denied; so being "like God" turns out to be an evil thing that is bad for us even if literally it is true.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by ringo, posted 09-06-2016 11:44 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by ringo, posted 09-06-2016 1:11 PM Faith has responded
 Message 52 by jar, posted 09-06-2016 2:04 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 12820
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 50 of 70 (790841)
09-06-2016 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Faith
09-06-2016 1:06 PM


Re: The Big Lie
Faith writes:

What Satan didn't say is that by disobeying we would all lose our connection with God, the first stage of death which is what God said would happen, which Satan denied;


God didn't say anything about the "first stage" of death. That's just something apologists made up. He said "death" and He specified the same day.

The "connection with God" thing is also made up and patently false. The Bible describes plenty of connections with God after the supposed "Fall".

Edited by ringo, : Spellin.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Faith, posted 09-06-2016 1:06 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 09-06-2016 1:41 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 23978
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 51 of 70 (790842)
09-06-2016 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by ringo
09-06-2016 1:11 PM


Re: The Big Lie
They did die the same day, you just don't know what it means. They died spiritually. If it hadn't been true that they would die then they wouldn't have died physically a thousand years later either, but they did. The commentators know what they are talking about; obviously you don't understand any of it.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by ringo, posted 09-06-2016 1:11 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by ringo, posted 09-07-2016 3:12 PM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 28435
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 52 of 70 (790845)
09-06-2016 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Faith
09-06-2016 1:06 PM


Re: The Big Lie
Faith writes:

The accord between God and Satan is superficial. What Satan didn't say is that by disobeying we would all lose our connection with God, the first stage of death which is what God said would happen, which Satan denied; so being "like God" turns out to be an evil thing that is bad for us even if literally it is true.

Except Faith, according to the story no one lost any connection with God. Nor is there any evidence of any spiritual death.

Edited by jar, : hit wrong key

Edited by jar, : there is no 8 in according


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5700
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 53 of 70 (790847)
09-06-2016 3:48 PM


I know it is difficult when the creator of the topic doesn't even discuss the topic, but could we stay on topic. I'd like to actually see some creationist responses to the substantive posts on this thread.

Alas, if the creator of the thread doesn't want to have a substantive conversation, then I fear the thread is dead anyway.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


    
ringo
Member
Posts: 12820
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 54 of 70 (790895)
09-07-2016 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Faith
09-06-2016 1:41 PM


Re: The Big Lie
Faith writes:

They did die the same day, you just don't know what it means.


I know what it means. You're just making up a different "meaning".

Faith writes:

They died spiritually.


It doesn't say that. And even if it was true, Adam and Eve had no way of knowing what "spiritual death" meant, so IF that was what God meant, He was still misleading them.

Faith writes:

If it hadn't been true that they would die then they wouldn't have died physically a thousand years later either, but they did.


You have to change the meaning of "die" and also the meaning of "the same day" for your interpretation to work. You might as well change the meaning of "God" and "serpent" while you're at it. And "tree" and "fruit" and "good" and "evil"....

But I don't suppose you see the irony in making up your own language to "prove" that the Bible is true.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 09-06-2016 1:41 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Pressie, posted 09-08-2016 8:20 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 56 by Faith, posted 09-08-2016 10:19 AM ringo has responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1479
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 55 of 70 (790936)
09-08-2016 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by ringo
09-07-2016 3:12 PM


Re: The Big Lie
Yeah. A lot of Christian religious people try to change the meaning of written words to what they want it to mean to suit their beliefs. One example is the meaning op the word "soon" being changed to "whenever it happens somewhere in future around 5 billion years from now".

Another example is when they want the meaning of the words "this generation" get changed to "any generation, whenever". That's what they want those words to mean. And then they call it it's a "prophesy" getting "fulfilled"!

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by ringo, posted 09-07-2016 3:12 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 23978
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 56 of 70 (790943)
09-08-2016 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by ringo
09-07-2016 3:12 PM


Re: The Big Lie
You have to change the meaning of "die" and also the meaning of "the same day" for your interpretation to work.

As with many things in the Bible, we are to learn from its use of the word "die" that it is not limited to the meaning we ordinarily attach to it. If of course you insist on that meaning you cannot learn anything from the Bible, in this case that the word applies to many shades of death. Not only total physical death where the organism stops breathing and its body returns to dust, which didn't happen to Adam and Eve and most of their progeny for almost a thousand years, but every kind of physical infirmity also entered the world at the Fall, disease being a form of death. Any kind of infirmity or deformity is a form of death because Creation started out absolutely perfect, free of any kind of sickness or imperfection.

You can also learn from the Bible that the first thing that happened at the Fall was that Adam and Eve hid from God whereas they used to "walk with" God in the Garden, having intimate communion with Him. This is one of the signs of the spiritual death that was the beginning of the fulfillment of the prophecy that they would die.

There are lots of ways our spiritual death is apparent throughout the history of fallen humanity since all the tribes became prey to the sins promoted by Satan and followed religions designed by him, most of us even losing the memory of the true God.

The main clue to our spiritual death is probably that Jesus came to "quicken" us, or bring us back to life from our normal condition of death, being "dead in sins." He is said to be a living spirit who rectifies what we lost at the Fall. When He sent the Holy Spirit to His disciples they became emboldened to preach the good news of this great redemption from the dead. It was through one man Adam that death came into the world, and through the one man Jesus that life is restored to us. That may be a bad paraphrase but I think it's close enough.

ABE: Hint: You can't really understand the Bible unless you have received the restoration of spiritual ife through Jesus, otherwise known as being "born again," or regenerated or "quickened."

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by ringo, posted 09-07-2016 3:12 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by ringo, posted 09-08-2016 11:45 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 58 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-08-2016 3:10 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 60 by Pressie, posted 09-09-2016 7:52 AM Faith has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 12820
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 57 of 70 (790947)
09-08-2016 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Faith
09-08-2016 10:19 AM


Re: The Big Lie
Faith writes:

As with many things in the Bible, we are to learn from its use of the word "die" that it is not limited to the meaning we ordinarily attach to it.


Like the word "literal". You claim to believe that the Bible is literally true but you really mean your beliefs have nothing to do with what the Bible says.

Faith writes:

If of course you insist on that meaning you cannot learn anything from the Bible, in this case that the word applies to many shades of death.


On the contrary, if you insist on words meaning what they actually mean, you can understand that the Bible is often wrong. You can force the Bible to be "right" by changing the meaning of all of the words - but you could do that with any other book too. You can get Treasure Island to predict who will win the next election if you redefine all of the words.

Faith writes:

... the first thing that happened at the Fall was that Adam and Eve hid from God....


Of course they did, because He lied to them about the consequences. They thought He was going to kill them on the spot.

Faith writes:

You can't really understand the Bible unless you have received the restoration of spiritual ife through Jesus, otherwise known as being "born again," or regenerated or "quickened."


So what do you need the Bible for at all? Why not just go with your "imparted" wisdom?

Edited by ringo, : Spellinge.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Faith, posted 09-08-2016 10:19 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11176
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 58 of 70 (790950)
09-08-2016 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Faith
09-08-2016 10:19 AM


Re: The Big Lie
Creation started out absolutely perfect...

Not according to Genesis. In Gen 2:18 the Lord says that it is not good for man to be alone. That's not perfection.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Faith, posted 09-08-2016 10:19 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Pressie
Member
Posts: 1479
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 59 of 70 (791001)
09-09-2016 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by New Cat's Eye
09-08-2016 3:10 PM


Re: The Big Lie
Cat Sci, you must be careful. You're going to be accused of blaming the supposed God for you being really, really bad in the supposed good creation. Because Adam and Eve supposedly ate some fruit. Even though you only turned up thousands of years later. You're bad!

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-08-2016 3:10 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1479
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 60 of 70 (791002)
09-09-2016 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Faith
09-08-2016 10:19 AM


Re: The Big Lie
Faith writes:

As with many things in the Bible, we are to learn from its use of the word "die" that it is not limited to the meaning we ordinarily attach to it.

Yeah, sure, when my parrot died, he could still fly around somehow.

Sorry, Faith. The word "die" means dead. Dead. Gone. Adios Amigos. Flesh rotting away. In equilibrium with the environment.

I realise that what you want is for words to mean something else...you want words to mean whatever you want to maintain your ridiculous faith.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Faith, posted 09-08-2016 10:19 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by jar, posted 09-09-2016 8:11 AM Pressie has not yet responded
 Message 62 by Faith, posted 09-09-2016 8:39 AM Pressie has responded

    
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