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Author Topic:   The 2016 United States Presidential Election
Faith
Member
Posts: 29164
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 811 of 892 (796772)
01-04-2017 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 810 by LamarkNewAge
01-04-2017 10:54 AM


Re: The Italian hotel owner
Just realized this is the thread about the election, where off topic posts have been seriously denounced, so I'm removing my post. If LamarkNewAge wants to post his somewhere else I'll answer it there.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 810 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-04-2017 10:54 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

    
AdminPhat
Administrator
Posts: 1875
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004


Message 812 of 892 (796782)
01-04-2017 2:35 PM


Closing
Lets move this discussion to Percys new thread.

The Trump Presidency

Closing, the election is over.

Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.


  • Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics.
  • Points should be supported with evidence and reasoned argumentation.
  • The sincerely held beliefs of other members deserve your respect. Please keep discussion civil. Argue the position, not the person.

  •     
    Admin
    Director
    Posts: 12556
    From: EvC Forum
    Joined: 06-14-2002


    Message 813 of 892 (796896)
    01-07-2017 7:51 AM


    Opening This Thread
    Since there's new news about the 2016 US presidential election, I am reopening this thread.

    --Percy
    EvC Forum Director

        
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 3456
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 2.0


    Message 814 of 892 (796901)
    01-07-2017 9:07 AM


    “So it could be somebody else. And I also know things that other people don’t know, and so they cannot be sure of the situation.”

    Asked what that information included, the president-elect said: “You will find out on Tuesday or Wednesday.” He did not elaborate, although in a statement released on Thursday in response to Obama’s sanctions, he said he would meet intelligence officials.



    Replies to this message:
     Message 815 by Faith, posted 01-07-2017 9:52 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

      
    Faith
    Member
    Posts: 29164
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 815 of 892 (796911)
    01-07-2017 9:52 AM
    Reply to: Message 814 by AZPaul3
    01-07-2017 9:07 AM


    Assange said it wasn't Russia. Now there is a conflict between two sources. Which one has the truth?
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 814 by AZPaul3, posted 01-07-2017 9:07 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

    Replies to this message:
     Message 816 by jar, posted 01-07-2017 10:02 AM Faith has not yet responded
     Message 817 by Modulous, posted 01-07-2017 10:31 AM Faith has responded

        
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 30707
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 1.7


    Message 816 of 892 (796912)
    01-07-2017 10:02 AM
    Reply to: Message 815 by Faith
    01-07-2017 9:52 AM


    Assange is a criminal who is fighting extradition to face trial.

    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 815 by Faith, posted 01-07-2017 9:52 AM Faith has not yet responded

      
    Modulous
    Member
    Posts: 7789
    From: Manchester, UK
    Joined: 05-01-2005
    Member Rating: 2.1


    (1)
    Message 817 of 892 (796914)
    01-07-2017 10:31 AM
    Reply to: Message 815 by Faith
    01-07-2017 9:52 AM


    Assange said it wasn't Russia

    How would he know this?

    Now there is a conflict between two sources.

    The consensus of the CIA.
    Fidelis Cybersecurity
    Crowdstrike
    Mandiant

    Which one has the truth?

    If I learned anything from the right wing about Assange it is that he is a sex crazed cult leader of a traitorous and criminal organisation in 'hiding' from the US government in 'Ecuador' because of his attacks on the CIA and endangering the lives of intelligence agents and other servicemen.

    If I learned anything from the left wing about Assange it is that Putin has used and defended him for years, and essentially gave him a job on RT and that despite saying he has damaging information regarding the Russian government, has not released it.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 815 by Faith, posted 01-07-2017 9:52 AM Faith has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 818 by Faith, posted 01-08-2017 6:47 AM Modulous has responded

      
    Faith
    Member
    Posts: 29164
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 818 of 892 (796941)
    01-08-2017 6:47 AM
    Reply to: Message 817 by Modulous
    01-07-2017 10:31 AM


    At the moment Assange is in favor with the Right, and it was in an interview by Sean Hannity that he said the Russians weren't involved. I'm waiting to see, myself.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 817 by Modulous, posted 01-07-2017 10:31 AM Modulous has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 819 by Modulous, posted 01-08-2017 11:53 AM Faith has responded

        
    Modulous
    Member
    Posts: 7789
    From: Manchester, UK
    Joined: 05-01-2005
    Member Rating: 2.1


    (2)
    Message 819 of 892 (796947)
    01-08-2017 11:53 AM
    Reply to: Message 818 by Faith
    01-08-2017 6:47 AM


    At the moment Assange is in favor with the Right

    Yes. They favour him when he is supporting their narrative, they call him a sex mad raping traitor when he does not. I think there's a word for this inconsistency isn't there?

    quote:
    The latest round of publications of leaked classified U.S. documents through the shady organization called Wikileaks raises serious questions about the Obama administration’s incompetent handling of this whole fiasco.

    First and foremost, what steps were taken to stop Wikileaks director Julian Assange from distributing this highly sensitive classified material especially after he had already published material not once but twice in the previous months?

    He is an anti-American operative with blood on his hands. His past posting of classified documents revealed the identity of more than 100 Afghan sources to the Taliban. Why was he not pursued with the same urgency we pursue al-Qaeda and Taliban leaders?

    --Sarah Palin, 2010.


    and it was in an interview by Sean Hannity that he said the Russians weren't involved

    Right - but how would he know? It's not like Russian agents go around telling people they are Russian agents, so how would Assange know the source? How would a man living in a small room for the past several years have better information than the CIA?

    quote:
    ...including the names of 100 Afghans who are helping us privately identify Taliban leaders...all their lives have been put in jeapordy
    --Sean Hannity 2010.

    quote:
    a guy who sits around, sleeping on other people's couches, changing his hair colour in order to avoid our surveillance is bringing American diplomacy - of this great country - to its heels. It's just an incredible sign of weakness.

    -- Marc Thiessen, 2010 on the Hannity Show


    quote:
    why didn't they go after this guy? Why didn't they arrest him? Why didn't they stop this from being published when they had so much time to do it?

    -- Sean Hannity, 2010


    quote:
    We can stop pirating of music and Hollywood movies but we can't stop this guy from stealing classified documents that put people's lives at risk?

    -- Sean Hannity, 2010


    quote:
    The 2nd thing that I think you did for America, which I think is very important, is you exposed how corrupt our government is, and I'll get to that in a second.

    -- Sean Hannity, 2016


    quote:
    You view yourself as a journalist. Information came to you and you disseminated that information because you felt the public had a right to know.

    -- Sean Hannity, 2016


    quote:
    Understood. And my big fear 10 years ago, which you and I discussed the last time you were on my radio show when I wanted you arrested. I said. Because I felt you would release potential information that would result in methods and people potentially dying because there is so much, in terms of covert operations, people working under cover, you purposely choose not to publish that information. Correct?

    -- Sean Hannity, 2016


    quote:
    And that was my argument about why I think America owes you a debt of gratitude

    -- Sean Hannity, 2016


    Hrm.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 818 by Faith, posted 01-08-2017 6:47 AM Faith has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 820 by Faith, posted 01-08-2017 6:43 PM Modulous has responded

      
    Faith
    Member
    Posts: 29164
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 820 of 892 (796974)
    01-08-2017 6:43 PM
    Reply to: Message 819 by Modulous
    01-08-2017 11:53 AM


    David Knight of Infowars did a report on the report -- I think his segment will be repeated again later -- probably between 4 and 6 or 7 PST if anyone is interested. He's not the only one who pointed out that there is no evidence in the report, just a lot of assertions. The report refers to sources that are years old, two years, four years, eight years. It's unevidenced, it's bogus, it's just part of the anti-Trump program. And according to Knight it's about THEM controlling the voting systems.

    Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

    Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

    Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 819 by Modulous, posted 01-08-2017 11:53 AM Modulous has responded

    Replies to this message:
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    Modulous
    Member
    Posts: 7789
    From: Manchester, UK
    Joined: 05-01-2005
    Member Rating: 2.1


    Message 821 of 892 (796976)
    01-08-2017 7:35 PM
    Reply to: Message 820 by Faith
    01-08-2017 6:43 PM


    He's not the only one who pointed out that there is no evidence in the report, just a lot of assertions.

    To clarify: It's a declassified document, I've read it and it seems primarily to be aimed at informing people of signatures to look out for and basic precautions to inhibit the tactics the suspected groups from succeeding.

    It's not the actual CIA report that Trump and Obama have access to.

    Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 820 by Faith, posted 01-08-2017 6:43 PM Faith has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 822 by Riggamortis, posted 01-08-2017 11:52 PM Modulous has responded

      
    Riggamortis
    Member (Idle past 250 days)
    Posts: 167
    From: Australia
    Joined: 08-15-2016


    Message 822 of 892 (796978)
    01-08-2017 11:52 PM
    Reply to: Message 821 by Modulous
    01-08-2017 7:35 PM


    Evidence of Russia hacking
    So is there any actual evidence being presented of Russia doing the hacking or are we just to accept it on faith that the CIA wouldn't lie? Cos I'm pretty suspicious of that lot, to say the least..
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 821 by Modulous, posted 01-08-2017 7:35 PM Modulous has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 823 by NoNukes, posted 01-09-2017 2:16 AM Riggamortis has not yet responded
     Message 824 by vimesey, posted 01-09-2017 4:08 AM Riggamortis has responded
     Message 826 by Modulous, posted 01-09-2017 7:41 AM Riggamortis has not yet responded

      
    NoNukes
    Member
    Posts: 10865
    From: Central NC USA
    Joined: 08-13-2010
    Member Rating: 2.4


    Message 823 of 892 (796979)
    01-09-2017 2:16 AM
    Reply to: Message 822 by Riggamortis
    01-08-2017 11:52 PM


    Re: Evidence of Russia hacking
    So is there any actual evidence being presented of Russia doing the hacking or are we just to accept it on faith that the CIA wouldn't lie?

    That's an interesting question.

    All you personally are ever likely to get are summaries of conclusions and descriptions of the evidence. So at some point you are going to have to trust somebody or just call everyone liars. You have individual Congressional representatives who get more access than you do and who have seen more directly the the evidence, have the ability to evaluate the credibility of the witnesses, and who, nearly to a man/woman, have been convinced.

    Now that may or may not be enough for you, but with regards to classified information, you are not likely to get anything better. I admit to harboring some doubts that are not going to be assuaged, but my doubts don't include the idea that the intelligence folks are lying. Not that such a thing could not change.

    Individuals of course are free to make up their minds any way they chose. In some cases that means simply concluding whatever fits in with the rest of your mindset.


    Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

    History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

    Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

    Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 822 by Riggamortis, posted 01-08-2017 11:52 PM Riggamortis has not yet responded

        
    vimesey
    Member (Idle past 222 days)
    Posts: 888
    From: Birmingham, England
    Joined: 09-21-2011


    (1)
    Message 824 of 892 (796981)
    01-09-2017 4:08 AM
    Reply to: Message 822 by Riggamortis
    01-08-2017 11:52 PM


    Re: Evidence of Russia hacking
    In my view, it is far too big a political risk to lie about something that unequivocal at this stage. As NoNukes has said, they have to present classified evidence to members of the Houses, and for them to lie would be a blatant piece of political suicide. Can't see them being that stupid. They have to have something pretty solid, in order to be that unequivocal in public.

    (Just to clarify - I don't think the CIA are incapable of lying (hell, it's an essential skill in that line of work) - I just don't think they'd lie stupidly.)

    Edited by vimesey, : Clarification


    Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 822 by Riggamortis, posted 01-08-2017 11:52 PM Riggamortis has responded

    Replies to this message:
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     Message 827 by Riggamortis, posted 01-09-2017 8:47 AM vimesey has responded

        
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 30707
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 1.7


    (1)
    Message 825 of 892 (796983)
    01-09-2017 6:43 AM
    Reply to: Message 824 by vimesey
    01-09-2017 4:08 AM


    Re: Evidence of Russia hacking
    It's interesting that during the buildup to the first Gulf War it was not the heads of the FBI & CIA or even the DOD that were coming forward pushing evidence of any threat but rather the political arm. generally member of the Presidential cabinet that were claiming there was evidence.

    The actual spooks generally do not come forward publicly if they can avoid it, particularly they don't generally go public with a position that might jeopardize funding.


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
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