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Author Topic:   The God That Paul Marketed Over Time.
jar
Member
Posts: 29429
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 211 of 267 (796895)
01-07-2017 7:12 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by Faith
01-06-2017 11:48 PM


Re: False Idols
There is no confusion since they are the exact same thing.

AbE:

It really is simple.

Judaism and Islam and Christianity are simply a thousand or so entirely different religions worshiping the same entity.

Edited by jar, : see AbE:


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 01-06-2017 11:48 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 4302
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 212 of 267 (796924)
01-07-2017 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Faith
01-06-2017 11:48 PM


Re: False Idols
Faith writes:

I keep wondering how anyone could confuse God with Allah. An extreme failure to read in context. But why? I don't get it.

It isn't about the name, it is about the true nature of God, and of course what that should mean to us as individuals or as a species.

In the case of Islam they revere the Koran and discern Allah's nature from that. Within the Koran Allah is depicted as a deity desiring peace and love. However it also depicts the deity as one who is violent and war like.

In the case of Christianity we revere the Bible and discern God's nature from that. Within the Bible God is depicted as a deity desiring peace and love. However it also depicts the deity as one who is violent and war like.

In either faith we can understand our deity as one who desires us to build peaceful bonds with our neighbours, and even our enemies, or, that we should slaughter them. Both positions can be held by understanding the holy books as being inerrant.

In actuality, in all faiths it so often becomes about trying to control God to further our own purposes whether it is to get a new car, destroy enemies, give us power or to allow us to live forever in comfort. It isn't a great analogy but we really should be asking not what God can do for us but what we can do to serve God.

Interestingly, and maybe tellingly enough the Koran starts off with a more peaceable deity and it seems as Mohammed gains political influence and power, he becomes increasingly more war like. In the Bible it generally starts with a more war like deity and climaxes in a deity that is peace loving, as we see His nature being perfectly embodied in Jesus.

In the case of Christianity we have to discern the message that God wants to convey when we read the BIble. In your case you understand that it is to be read exactly as written so that when Yahweh demands genocide or public stonings you take that as being fact, and justify it by saying that it is God's perfect justice that goes beyond human understanding. (I find that odd. If we our made in God's image then justice is something that we should have a reasonable grasp of.)

I however understand God as saying to us that genocide and public stoning is evil, and that those who either prophesied these actions or carried them out were wrong in doing so. In order to make the point we have Jesus. To understand what is of God in the Bible I use the lens of the incarnate Word of God, which is Jesus. As I said earlier, God's Word or Wisdom was embodied in a man, not in a book, or a collection of writings to be more exact.

The point is though that when you read some parts of the OT, you can find a theology that supports essentially the same theology followed by ISIS. Enemies are to be slaughtered and apostates put to death cruelly. It is government by fear as opposed to the Christ centred model of government by love.

I know that your experiences lead you to understand that God is a God of love, but your theology actually contradicts your beliefs.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 01-06-2017 11:48 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Faith, posted 01-07-2017 6:50 PM GDR has not yet responded
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Faith
Inactive Member


Message 213 of 267 (796928)
01-07-2017 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by GDR
01-07-2017 5:33 PM


Re: False Idols
Ah well. All I can really do is repeat that it's beyond me to understand how anyone can equate God with Allah in any way whatever.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by GDR, posted 01-07-2017 5:33 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 214 of 267 (796932)
01-07-2017 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by GDR
01-07-2017 5:33 PM


Re: False Idols
It isn't about the name, it is about the true nature of God, and of course what that should mean to us as individuals or as a species.

In the case of Islam they revere the Koran and discern Allah's nature from that. Within the Koran Allah is depicted as a deity desiring peace and love. However it also depicts the deity as one who is violent and war like.

There are a huge number of passages in the Koran, over a hundred if I'm not misremembering, that specifically directly order the reader to kill unbelievers. What sort of "peace and love" does this satanic entity actually promote in light of that?

In the case of Christianity we revere the Bible and discern God's nature from that. Within the Bible God is depicted as a deity desiring peace and love. However it also depicts the deity as one who is violent and war like.

No, He is a God of Law and Justice who punishes violations of the Moral Law. And the Bible teaches about the Moral Law so we'll know what is expected of us, and teaches about what punishments each sin deserves so we can't be taken by surprise by that either. And after making it clear that sin deservies severe punishment, God sends us a Savior to spare us its exacting terms. Allah has no excuse for His violence except that he won't tolerate infidels and he offers no salvation except conversion to Islam and "good works" like killing infidels, and his idea of heaven is carnal pleasure. Yech, blech, gag.

In either faith we can understand our deity as one who desires us to build peaceful bonds with our neighbours, and even our enemies, or, that we should slaughter them.

Absolute total flaming BS. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that tells us to slaughter anybody. Ever. The OT gives historical REPORTS on how God deals with violations of the Law "in the fullness of time." It also shows Him warning people through His prophets of judgment coming, even warning the pagan city of Nineveh besides His years and years of warnings to His own people. A REPORT IS NOT A COMMAND. Allah issues commande to commit murder of innocent people. THERE IS NO COMPARISON. Blech, gag.

Both positions can be held by understanding the holy books as being inerrant.

Utter flaming inability to read in context. Unbelievable.

In actuality, in all faiths it so often becomes about trying to control God to further our own purposes whether it is to get a new car, destroy enemies, give us power or to allow us to live forever in comfort.

What the---?? !!!! I have never, not once, prayed even remotely along such lines. Never. Read the Lord's Prayer. It leads us to pray that God's name be holy to us, that His will be done, not ours, that His kingdom come, and end the evils of this world, that He forgive us and prompt us to forgive, that He take care of our basic needs, you know, food and shelter and so on, not cars and comfort, although I suppose it wouldn't be amiss to ask for a humble car in dire need -- and not to destroy our enemies either. Where do you get such a notion? Not to lead us into temptation, to deliver us from evil and from Satan.

It isn't a great analogy but we really should be asking not what God can do for us but what we can do to serve God.

I often ask Him what He wants me to do, as I believe most Christians do. But there is nothing wrong with asking Him to take care of our needs and that is a line in the Lord's Prayer too. In fact there's something of pride and willfulness and holier-than-thouness in the idea we don't need to humble ourselves to asking for things we need. It also helps develop gratitude to ask and receive.

Interestingly, and maybe tellingly enough the Koran starts off with a more peaceable deity and it seems as Mohammed gains political influence and power, he becomes increasingly more war like. In the Bible it generally starts with a more war like deity and climaxes in a deity that is peace loving, as we see His nature being perfectly embodied in Jesus.

You understand NOTHING. Nothing.

In the case of Christianity we have to discern the message that God wants to convey when we read the BIble. In your case you understand that it is to be read exactly as written so that when Yahweh demands genocide or public stonings you take that as being fact, and justify it by saying that it is God's perfect justice that goes beyond human understanding. (I find that odd. If we our made in God's image then justice is something that we should have a reasonable grasp of.)

It is hard to wrap our minds around the need to annihilate an entire tribe of people. I don't claim to understand that. I can guess at it: whatever the sins of the tribe even the babies are contaminated with it, and saving the animals could just be an excuse to adopt the sinful practices of the tribe by keeping them in memory. I've seen similar explanations but how could we know for sure? And I don't expect to be fully conformed to the image of Christ in this life either, as scripture says we won't. We were MADE, CREATED, in the image of God, but that image was distorted at the Fall and won't be fully recovered in this life.

I however understand God as saying to us that genocide and public stoning is evil, and that those who either prophesied these actions or carried them out were wrong in doing so.

In other words you prefer your own imagination to what God actually says.

In order to make the point we have Jesus.

Jesus IS God. He is of the same substance as God. So say the Creeds.

To understand what is of God in the Bible I use the lens of the incarnate Word of God, which is Jesus.

And you pat yourself on the back for it too. If you decide that any part of the Bible is false, there is no way to claim that any other part is true. You pull the rug out from under your own silly buffet-style religion.

As I said earlier, God's Word or Wisdom was embodied in a man, not in a book, or a collection of writings to be more exact.

It's embodied in BOTH.

The point is though that when you read some parts of the OT, you can find a theology that supports essentially the same theology followed by ISIS.

Utter absolute blithering evil nonsense. NOBODY in the Bible goes around blowing people up, NOBODY goes around killing people at random. THAT'S SHEER EVIL, commanded by the devil-god Allah. You are mentally deranged on this point. They aren't killing "enemies" either. Just random human beings who don't share their beliefs.

Enemies are to be slaughtered and apostates put to death cruelly. It is government by fear as opposed to the Christ centred model of government by love.

You talk just like the devil himself, lies lies lies, no sense whatever of the context of God's acts.

I know that your experiences lead you to understand that God is a God of love, but your theology actually contradicts your beliefs.

My theology is consistent with my experiences and beliefs and with all the hundreds of theologians I've learned from.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by GDR, posted 01-07-2017 5:33 PM GDR has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Modulous, posted 01-07-2017 11:07 PM Faith has responded

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7441
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 215 of 267 (796933)
01-07-2017 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Faith
01-06-2017 11:48 PM


Re: False Idols
I keep wondering how anyone could confuse God with Allah.

Muslims worship the God that created Adam and Eve from clay who were cast from Paradise after a temptation to eat forbidden fruit from Satan, who spoke to Abraham, who flooded the world but save Noah, who guided Moses through the wilderness, who made a covenant with Israelites and gave them the Law; denouncing worshippers of idols such as statues of cattle, the God who is written about in the Old Testament and who approves of the message of Jesus, who has the angels Gabriel and Michael. The God of history who is full of mercy and compassion and exorts his followers to kindness, compassion and charity while warning of the dangers of hell for those who indulge in sin. 'the Lord', 'God', the 'Master of the Day of Judgment.'

If you are thinking of a different God, then it's probably a different one than Paul marketed over time.

quote:
And keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and whatever good you send before for yourselves, you shall find it with God; surely God sees what you do.

And they say: None shall enter the garden (or paradise) except he who is a Jew or a Christian. These are their vain desires. Say: Bring your proof if you are truthful.

Yes! whoever submits himself entirely to God and he is the doer of good (to others) he has his reward from his Lord, and there is no fear for him nor shall he grieve.

Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth, and when He decrees an affair, He only says to it, Be, so there it is.

Surely We have sent you with the truth as a bearer of good news and as a warner, and you shall not be called upon to answer for the companions of the flaming fire.

Those to whom We have given the Book read it as it ought to be read. These believe in it; and whoever disbelieves in it, these it is that are the losers.

And who forsakes the religion of Abraham but he who makes himself a fool, and most certainly We chose him in this world, and in the hereafter he is most surely among the righteous.

When his Lord said to him, Be one who submits to God, he said: I submit myself to the Lord of the worlds.

Say: We believe in God and (in) that which had been revealed to us, and (in) that which was revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and (in) that which was given to Moses and Jesus, and (in) that which was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit.

(Receive) the baptism of God, and who is better than God in baptising? and Him do we serve.

Say: Do you dispute with us about God, and He is our Lord and your Lord, and we shall have our deeds and you shall have your deeds, and we are sincere to Him.

Nay! do you say that Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Are you better knowing or God? And who is more unjust than he who conceals a testimony that he has from God? And God is not at all heedless of what you do.

And your God is one God! there is no god but He;

O men! eat the lawful and good things out of what is in the earth, and do not follow the footsteps of the Satan; surely he is your open enemy.


Of course, you think they are wrong about some things - otherwise you'd be a Muslim. But then you think the Jews and Unitarians and Catholics are wrong too. People can be wrong about humans too. I bet you think the 'leftists' are wrong about certain facts regarding Trump - but it would be absurd to think that a 'leftist' and a 'rightist' are talking about different people just because they think they portray the history or character differently.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 01-06-2017 11:48 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by Faith, posted 01-07-2017 10:51 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 216 of 267 (796934)
01-07-2017 10:51 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Modulous
01-07-2017 10:47 PM


Re: False Idols
I know that these things are spiritually discerned so I suppose I can't really fault anybody for having such utterly wacko ideas, but I do keep having this optimistic idea that even unbelievers ought to be able to think logically and rationally despite being shown over and over how wrong I am about that.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Modulous, posted 01-07-2017 10:47 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7441
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 217 of 267 (796935)
01-07-2017 11:07 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Faith
01-07-2017 10:34 PM


Re: False Idols
There are a huge number of passages in the Koran, over a hundred if I'm not misremembering, that specifically directly order the reader to kill unbelievers. What sort of "peace and love" does this satanic entity actually promote in light of that?

quote:
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death

quote:
If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die

quote:
Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die:

quote:
Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death:

quote:
Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him.

quote:
A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones

quote:
And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.

quote:
And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

quote:
And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it: And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself;

No, He is a God of Law and Justice who punishes violations of the Moral Law.

Just like Allah.

Allah has no excuse for His violence except that he won't tolerate infidels and he offers no salvation except conversion to Islam

Same with Yahweh, then.

and his idea of heaven is carnal pleasure

Not isn't.

quote:
The gardens of perpetual abode which they will enter along with those who do good from among their parents and their spouses and their offspring; and the angels will enter in upon them from every gate:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Faith, posted 01-07-2017 10:34 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by Faith, posted 01-07-2017 11:09 PM Modulous has responded
 Message 220 by Faith, posted 01-08-2017 6:33 AM Modulous has responded
 Message 228 by Faith, posted 01-08-2017 3:28 PM Modulous has responded

    
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 218 of 267 (796936)
01-07-2017 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Modulous
01-07-2017 11:07 PM


Re: False Idols
Context, context.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Modulous, posted 01-07-2017 11:07 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by Modulous, posted 01-07-2017 11:14 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7441
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 219 of 267 (796937)
01-07-2017 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by Faith
01-07-2017 11:09 PM


Re: False Idols
Context, context.

Exactly. When looked at in context, Allah requests much the same murder and mayhem as Yahweh does for the same kinds of reasons and requires staying of the hand and mercy in much the same conditions.

Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Faith, posted 01-07-2017 11:09 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 220 of 267 (796938)
01-08-2017 6:33 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by Modulous
01-07-2017 11:07 PM


Re: False Idols
I said there are direct commands to the individual Muslim reader of the Koran to murder infidels at will.

What you are quoting are God's commands to the Israelites about the right punishments for violation of the Law which are spelled out in great detail in the OT books of the Law. Laws given to the nation of Israel, to be executed by the nation of Israel on ITS OWN PEOPLE. THERE IS NO COMPARISON. Sheesh. Why are Leftists such wackos?

Oh and a "garden" is also a carnal image, as in earthly pleasures.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Modulous, posted 01-07-2017 11:07 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2017 6:38 AM Faith has responded
 Message 224 by Modulous, posted 01-08-2017 11:05 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5098
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 221 of 267 (796939)
01-08-2017 6:38 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by Faith
01-08-2017 6:33 AM


Re: False Idols
Sheesh indeed. Why are right wing, religious fundamentalists so, well, wrong?

5. Genocide after genocide after genocide.
In Joshua 6:20-21, God helps the Israelites destroy Jericho, killing “men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.” In Deuteronomy 2:32-35, God has the Israelites kill everyone in Heshbon, including children. In Deuteronomy 3:3-7, God has the Israelites do the same to the people of Bashan. In Numbers 31:7-18, the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they take as spoils of war. In 1 Samuel 15:1-9, God tells the Israelites to kill all the Amalekites – men, women, children, infants, and their cattle – for something the Amalekites’ ancestors had done 400 years earlier.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Faith, posted 01-08-2017 6:33 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Faith, posted 01-08-2017 6:42 AM Tangle has responded

  
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 222 of 267 (796940)
01-08-2017 6:42 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by Tangle
01-08-2017 6:38 AM


Re: False Idols
This has already been discussed to death. Genocide is murder, God condemns murder, God does not commit murder. God executes justice (the death penalty is not murder, contrary to the views of the logic-challenged bleeding hearts who love criminals and hate victims). Yes sometimes using His own ancient people for the job, sometimes using a foreign nation to judge His own people. This answers nothing I just wrote, which was about the LAW GIVEN TO THE ISRAELITES ABOUT INDIVIDUAL SINS. Which itself was given as a contrast with the Koran's specific commands to Muslim readers to kill innocent people, which we see in practice all the time these days.

Yes, sheesh again. Leftists seem to be severely challenged when it comes to reading in context.

OH and by the way IIRC some of the instances you list were not ordered by God and actually against His will.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2017 6:38 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2017 7:51 AM Faith has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5098
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 223 of 267 (796942)
01-08-2017 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 222 by Faith
01-08-2017 6:42 AM


Re: False Idols
We know that you say that when there's a problem in the bible, it's not the bible that's wrong, it's our reading of it, but you know, repeted genocide is pretty hard to misinterpret.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Faith, posted 01-08-2017 6:42 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Faith, posted 01-08-2017 3:24 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7441
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 224 of 267 (796946)
01-08-2017 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by Faith
01-08-2017 6:33 AM


killing and heaven
I said there are direct commands to the individual Muslim reader of the Koran to murder infidels at will.

Yes, and I said that in context that's not the case.

quote:
Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.

Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.


quote:
And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.

quote:
but if they desist {persecuting you}, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

Read in full context, Allah is telling the Muslims AT THE TIME to kill the people, who AT THE TIME were trying to kill all the Muslims, drive them from their homes and destroy the word of God. Allah says that any time IN GENERAL people do this, they are to be fought against (with moderation) until they stop their evil actions. Killing others is permissible, in much the same as the OT, to prevent the victory of evil:

quote:
So they put them to flight by Allah's permission. And David slew Goliath, and Allah gave him kingdom and wisdom, and taught him of what He pleased. And were it not for Allah's repelling some men with others, the earth would certainly be in a state of disorder; but Allah is Gracious to the creatures.

What you are quoting are God's commands to the Israelites about the right punishments for violation of the Law which are spelled out in great detail in the OT books of the Law.

Well no, I was (mostly) quoting the Law, which was given to Jacob and reiterated to Moses and others.

Laws given to the nation of Israel, to be executed by the nation of Israel on ITS OWN PEOPLE.

The Law was not just given to the nation of Israel, it was given to Jacob and his descendants. They applied to Moses who never entered what would become the Kingdom of Israel, and they applied to Jews who were exiled from the Kingdom of Israel. They applied to Paul when he was in Anatolia. You seem to have, as ever, confused the covenant with the Law.

The covenant also wasn't to the nation of Israel but to the descendants of Jacob. The covenant was for Jacob and his descendants to obey the Law and in return God will protect and elevate the descendants of Jacob (there were several covenants, so I'm just covering the most relevant one (ie., the Israelites)). This isn't to say the Law doesn't apply to everyone else (it does), it's just that the descendants of Jacob had a contract with God which provided them with rewards for obeying it not just punishments for disobeying it.

Also, the bit about sieging a city and killing all the men inside and enslaving the women and children is not part of the Law.

THERE IS NO COMPARISON.

Well actually, there is. The people the Koran says you should kill are idolaters who are trying to kill Muslims, until they stop trying to kill Muslims. The people the Bible says you should kill are people who are picking up sticks on Saturday (Numbers 15:32-36, which does not occur in the nation of Israel). Oh wait, the Bible is worse.

Sheesh. Why are Leftists such wackos?

Because we've read the Bible and the Koran?

Oh and a "garden" is also a carnal image, as in earthly pleasures.

I see, so the Garden of Eden (ie., Paradise) is and was a place of carnal pleasures. I'll keep that in mind. Well in that case:

quote:
The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls.

The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia in length, and as wide and high as it is long.

The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubits thick.

The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass.

The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst

The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass.

I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.


quote:
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever.

quote:
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven

Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Faith, posted 01-08-2017 6:33 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9887
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 225 of 267 (796952)
01-08-2017 2:04 PM


Left Right Left
One quick point that I will say is that among believers there are people on all ends of the political spectrum. God is not an exclusive revelation only to the political right.

I happen to be a political moderate myself.

Christian Left

quote:
The most common religious viewpoint which might be described as ‘left wing’ is social justice, or care for the poor and the oppressed. Supporters of this might encourage universal health care, welfare provision, subsidized education, foreign aid, and Affirmative Action for improving the conditions of the disadvantaged. Stemming from egalitarian values (and what Jesus Himself said), adherents of the Christian left consider it part of their religious duty to take actions on behalf of the oppressed.

The Christian Left holds that social justice, renunciation of power, humility, forgiveness, and private observation of prayer (as opposed to publicly mandated prayer), are mandated by the Gospel (Matthew 6:5-6). The Bible contains accounts of Jesus repeatedly advocating for the poor and outcast over the wealthy, powerful, and religious. The Christian Left maintains that such a stance is relevant and important.


Edited by Phat, : added jabberwocky


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by Faith, posted 01-08-2017 3:11 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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