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Author Topic:   The God That Paul Marketed Over Time.
jar
Member
Posts: 28437
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 256 of 262 (797176)
01-13-2017 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Phat
01-13-2017 12:51 PM


what does Mene, mene tekel upharsin mean?
Phat writes:

In reformed Judaism, behavior would count more than it would in evangelical Christianity.

If so, then Evangelical Christianity is not following Jesus; if what you say is true then Evangelical Christianity is the Goats in Matthew 25.

Phat writes:

Perhaps the question is what value do belief and trust have (if any) over behavior?

Once you bring up "value" you need to start talking in measurable things. How do you weigh belief & trust?

Phat writes:

Also...why is it that belief and trust...if embraced, do not lead to better behavior.

And the answer is indicated in the issue just above.

Belief & trust are imponderables. They are by definition incapable of being weighed or resolved or tested. They do not lead to anything other than faith and belief.

Work has value. Deeds can be measured. Jesus did not say trust that the hungry will get fed, trust that the naked will get clothed, believe that the homeless will be sheltered, believe the weak will be protected, have faith that the sick will be healed and have faith that the sorrowful will get comforted; Jesus said feed the hungry, clothe the naked, comfort the sorrowful, shelter the homeless, heal the sick, protect the weak, teach the children.

Works can be measured. Works have results. Works actually do things.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Phat, posted 01-13-2017 12:51 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by Phat, posted 01-16-2017 6:35 AM jar has not yet responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 4240
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 257 of 262 (797190)
01-13-2017 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by jar
01-13-2017 6:53 AM


Re: Pauls Belief
jar writes:

And I pointed out that your post did not show that Christians behaved differently than any others.
Stop and think.

How does the study you used show that Christians are more charitable than others?

First off, the point wasn't essentially about you being right or wrong. It is just that you post your assertions as fact, saying that the evidence and all the statistics back you up without posting any evidence or statistics, and then over several posts refuse to provide any. It is the sort of thing you delight in criticizing others for.

However, I'd suggest that just maybe you're going to the wrong church. In spending time with those in my church I see people committed to their marriages, and are committed to serving the community and the world with both time and money. I realize that is anecdotal and doesn't mean much in the larger picture but my personal experience in living and attending church in a variety of locations in Canada is that there is a marked difference in the behaviour and attitudes of those from the church group of friends and my secular group of friends.

As far as the study I posted. it points out that the areas in the US that are more inclined to be religious, out give the non-religious areas by a fairly large margin, including even to secular charitable organizations. You can make what you like out of the study.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by jar, posted 01-13-2017 6:53 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 258 of 262 (797248)
01-16-2017 6:35 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by jar
01-13-2017 3:20 PM


Re: what does Mene, mene tekel upharsin mean?
Jewish Encyclopedia writes:

Words written by a mysterious hand on the wall of Belshazzar's palace, and interpreted by Daniel as predicting the doom of the king and his dynasty. The incident is described as follows: Once when King Belshazzar was banqueting with his lords and drinking wine from the golden vessels of the Temple of Yhwh, a man's hand was seen writing on the wall certain mysterious words. Frightened by the apparition, the king ordered his astrologers to explain the inscription; but they were unable to read it. Daniel was then summoned to the royal palace; and the king promised him costly presents if he would decipher the inscription. Daniel read it "Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin" and explained it to mean that God had "numbered" the kingdom of Belshazzar and brought it to an end; that the king had been weighed and found wanting; and that his kingdom was divided and given to the Medes and Persians (Dan. v. 1-28).

So does the lesson have meaning for us today? After all our days are numbered. Have we been weighed according to what we do?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

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 Message 256 by jar, posted 01-13-2017 3:20 PM jar has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 12820
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 259 of 262 (797279)
01-16-2017 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by Faith
01-09-2017 6:17 PM


Re: Left Right Left
Faith writes:

Rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar's sounds to me like Jesus' distancing Himself from the things of government rather than saying anything about how government should be run.


Distancing Himself, maybe, but distancing US, no. Do you seriously advocate that Christians in a democracy should distance themselves from government?

Faith writes:

As I said Jesus did not address the state, He did not address government at all.


As I said, He addresses OUR ATTITUDE toward the state. He said that WE should acknowledge the state.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Faith, posted 01-09-2017 6:17 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 12820
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 260 of 262 (797280)
01-16-2017 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by Phat
01-11-2017 12:15 PM


Re: He completes the work in us
Phat writes:

What do you have against belief, apart from the unpardonable sin known as lack of evidence?


That's like asking what I have against death other than that it's fatal.

How many fatal flaws do you need?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Phat, posted 01-11-2017 12:15 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 01-19-2017 10:34 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 261 of 262 (797383)
01-19-2017 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by ringo
01-16-2017 10:52 AM


Re: He completes the work in us
how can you possibly equate belief with death? Your example does not compute!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by ringo, posted 01-16-2017 10:52 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by ringo, posted 01-19-2017 11:23 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 12820
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 262 of 262 (797387)
01-19-2017 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by Phat
01-19-2017 10:34 AM


Re: He completes the work in us
Phat writes:

how can you possibly equate belief with death? Your example does not compute!


I didn't "equate" belief with death.

You asked what I have against belief - apart from lack of evidence. Again, that's like asking what I have against jumping off a cliff - apart from breaking every bone in my body. Or asking what I have against serial killers - apart from them killing all of those people. Or asking what I have against losing my job - except that I'll be out on the street begging for spare change.

When there's a really, really bad consequence for something, why do I need a reason "apart" from that?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 01-19-2017 10:34 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
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