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Author Topic:   Republican Healthcare Plan
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10127
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 166 of 187 (803151)
03-24-2017 4:24 PM


Republican Repeal and Replace bill pulled.
Of course these folks are going to eventually get it together and dismantle the Affordable Care Act, but...

CNN is reporting that Trump has asked Paul Ryan to pull the current bill to replace the ACA with something. Given the dozens of repeal votes during Obama's presidency, which we can now see were only made under the cover of knowing that those past repeals would never see the light of day, it is clear that there never was an actual Republican Plan.

Maybe someday there will be a Republican plan, but that plan certainly won't meet Trump's promise of giving better coverage to more people for less money.

ABC, Fox and NBC are confirming that Ryan has pulled the bill.

And I thought neocons sucked...


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by PaulK, posted 03-24-2017 5:15 PM NoNukes has responded
 Message 170 by Percy, posted 03-24-2017 6:15 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply
 Message 173 by 14174dm, posted 03-27-2017 7:25 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13391
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 167 of 187 (803153)
03-24-2017 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by NoNukes
03-24-2017 4:24 PM


Re: Republican Repeal and Replace bill pulled.
It was pulled because they couldn't get the votes. And that was partly because some Republicans didn't think it went far enough.

I wonder if Trump will fulfil his threat to "come after" the Republicans who would not support the bill. And if it will amount to anything more than malicious tweeting.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by NoNukes, posted 03-24-2017 4:24 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by jar, posted 03-24-2017 5:23 PM PaulK has not yet responded
 Message 172 by NoNukes, posted 03-25-2017 4:29 AM PaulK has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29820
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 168 of 187 (803154)
03-24-2017 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by PaulK
03-24-2017 5:15 PM


Re: Republican Repeal and Replace bill pulled.
Maybe he can send them a cease and desist order like he did on the kitty website.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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vimesey
Member
Posts: 888
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 169 of 187 (803156)
03-24-2017 6:08 PM


Shock news - it turns out Trump did once tell the truth !
If you can't make a deal with a politician, then there's certainly something wrong with you - you're not very good.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 16343
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 170 of 187 (803157)
03-24-2017 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by NoNukes
03-24-2017 4:24 PM


Re: Republican Repeal and Replace bill pulled.
NoNukes writes:

Of course these folks are going to eventually get it together and dismantle the Affordable Care Act, but...

Agreed.

Maybe someday there will be a Republican plan, but that plan certainly won't meet Trump's promise of giving better coverage to more people for less money.

I wonder if Trump supporters understood they were being lied to when Trump claimed they were replacing Obamacare with something better. Or maybe he meant it would be better for the rich.

As a compromise Obamacare is very likely not the best that could be done, but if the goal is to provide widely available and affordable health insurance then Trumpcare is several steps in the wrong direction from Obamacare. When most Republicans talk about improving Obamacare they don't mean improving it in terms of healthcare but in terms of limited government.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by NoNukes, posted 03-24-2017 4:24 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by jar, posted 03-24-2017 7:21 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29820
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


(2)
Message 171 of 187 (803159)
03-24-2017 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Percy
03-24-2017 6:15 PM


Re: Republican Repeal and Replace bill pulled.
What is really sad is if they would simply adopt a universal health care system like every other first world nation they would assure themselves long term success.

They are really stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10127
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 172 of 187 (803163)
03-25-2017 4:29 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by PaulK
03-24-2017 5:15 PM


Re: Republican Repeal and Replace bill pulled.
And that was partly because some Republicans didn't think it went far enough.

That's clearly only the glass empty part of it. Those tea party folk wanted it to repeal some very popular parts of Obamacare that the rest of the Republican party were either opposed to dropping or felt that their constituents were opposed to dropping.

I wonder if Trump will fulfil his threat to "come after" the Republicans who would not support the bill

Trump may not have the popularity to pull this off nationwide, but he can go after some Republicans that are in the reddest districts. Is going after tea party candidates in really red districts going to be a winning proposition? I think not.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by PaulK, posted 03-24-2017 5:15 PM PaulK has not yet responded

    
14174dm
Member
Posts: 128
Joined: 10-12-2015


(7)
Message 173 of 187 (803242)
03-27-2017 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by NoNukes
03-24-2017 4:24 PM


Re: Republican Repeal and Replace bill pulled.
So after six plus years of campaigning to repeal ObamaCare the Republicans had nothing other than "Repeal ObamaCare" when they won the House, the Senate & the Presidency. No plan at all.

WTF.

Basically the Republicans are now promising to screw up ObamaCare until it collapses and hope the voters won't notice their thumbs on the scales.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by NoNukes, posted 03-24-2017 4:24 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1036
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 174 of 187 (803468)
03-30-2017 11:32 PM


Dangerous situation RECENT STEPHEN BRILL March 29 Washington Post article.
I have a copy of the March 29 Washington Post and Stephen Brill actually admitted he is "carrying water for the insurance companies " in his How to Keep Trump Honest on Obamacare article. I will paste 3 breathtaking paragraphs soon but can't right now. He said that insurers are on consumers side because they "pay medical bills " and want to save money on bills just like the consumers they cover. He then jumped right to the issue of Trump keeping "his promise to bring prescription drug prices down to where they are in every other developed country, which is at least 40 percent below what we pay, based on my research." The Brill sleight of hand is as breathtaking as it is sly. The insurance companies ALREADY negotiate prices down as Brill points out in his book but leaves out in the article. In this article, he slides from the issue of private insurance premiums and deductibles, as his piece is (bait and switch tactic aside ) about, to the issue of Medicare. Most readers won't notice or even be aware of the particulars especially the separate issues of Medicare bills compared to exploding private insurance premiums and deductibles. He then also fails to mention that all profits will then be eliminated and that ironically will solve the Prescription Drug price problem for good. No more R and D will happen and no new drugs will be developed which will mean that all drugs will be older drugs which in turn will have the patents expire (per the existing law ) in seven years. That "solution " would have worked wonders had we used it in 2000 when prescribed drugs costed 100 billion dollars a year. If not for allowing the 15 to 20 percent profits in the prescriptiondrug industry then the added costs from newly developed drugs since then wouldn't need to be an issue as the lifesaving discoveries wouldn't exist and thus OUT with the 300 billion dollar prescription drug costs per year Americans must pay. That includes the 45 billion that went to profits last year. Save that 1 percent in total health care costs and Brill speculates "could translate into a drop of 6 to 8 percent in premiums " reduced for Medicare beneficiary costs. The insurance company premiums and deductibles should be proof of the near total irrelevancy of this dangerous idea. Paul Krugman actually made a 100 flawless article in a recent New York Times issue. He said that Obama Care is having premium and deductible problems simply due to underfunded subsidies. Correct. He said that Obama Care has cost less than a third of the projected costs forecasted when it passed nearly a decade ago and it actually makes up a taxpayer funded expense of only 0.7 percent of GDP. An increase in subsidies of just 0.2 percent would eliminate alot of the brutal deductibles and would help solve 2 problems at once. The lower deductibles would have the effect of attracting insurance purchasers while the increased customer dollars would keep insurance company profits high enough that the result would be lower chances of premium and deductibles getting raised by the private insurers themselves. All while the government covers the costs of most of the 6000 dollars in deductibles the poor consumers suffer from.
Replies to this message:
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 Message 176 by NoNukes, posted 03-31-2017 1:34 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1036
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 175 of 187 (803469)
03-31-2017 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by LamarkNewAge
03-30-2017 11:32 PM


Re: Dangerous situation RECENT STEPHEN BRILL March 29 Washington Post article.
Typing is hard for a number of reasons. I am going to have to point out that Krugman actually said that the ObamaCare costs are only two thirds of the best projections from around 2010. Only 0.7 percent of GDP if you confine costs to the amount that the government pays for the subsidies, Medicaid expansion, Medicare Drug changes, and other additional services. I guess that means the cost is around 140 billion dollars a year and the 826 billion dollars for the first 10 years were a major distortion since the beginning of the major funding wouldn't be till around the middle of the decade. I find it so ironic that Obama Care supporters used ignorance as a weapon to ( in their minds ) help make the program sellable (as if Americans would know what the practical difference would have been between 82 billion dollars a year and whatever the actual yearly cost was assumed to be ), when all this nickel and dime-ing seems to be the best observable explanation for the massive failure that Obama Care has genuinely been and ultimately always will be.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by LamarkNewAge, posted 03-30-2017 11:32 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10127
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 176 of 187 (803470)
03-31-2017 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by LamarkNewAge
03-30-2017 11:32 PM


Re: Dangerous situation RECENT STEPHEN BRILL March 29 Washington Post article.
quote:

Countless lines of densely packed type without a hint of structure

Seriously brother? How about some honey instead of vinegar.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by LamarkNewAge, posted 03-30-2017 11:32 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by LamarkNewAge, posted 03-31-2017 2:16 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1036
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 177 of 187 (803472)
03-31-2017 2:16 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by NoNukes
03-31-2017 1:34 AM


Re: Dangerous situation RECENT STEPHEN BRILL March 29 Washington Post article.
My heart just about stopped! See March 29, 2017 Washington Post article, Trump now says he wants to work with Democrats by Abby Phillip, Ashley Parker, and David WEigel. "One of the few Democrats that Trump talked with on health - care issues was Zeke Emmanuel... who has met with Trump three times since the election. " O dear God! The end of any meaningful "health care " for all but the rich could be around the corner FOR EVER AND EVER, A-MEN!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by NoNukes, posted 03-31-2017 1:34 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1036
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 178 of 187 (803530)
04-01-2017 4:40 PM


Brill quote
quote:

Am I carrying water for the insurance companies? It took me a while, but after four years of writing about the ins and outs of Obamacare and the health-care economy in general, I came to what should have been an obvious realization: When it comes to health care, the insurers — however lousy their customer service and opaque or worse their practices — are the only industry players on the consumers’ side of the equation. Like us, they pay medical bills. Everyone else dispenses them.

Which brings us to a third way Trump could enhance, rather than undermine, the opportunity for his constituents to get affordable health care. He simply has to keep his promise to bring prescription drug prices down to where they are in every other developed country, which is at least 40 percent below what we pay, based on my research. He could do it by using Medicare’s negotiating power, through a legislated set of price controls, or both.

The 40 percent cut could translate into a drop of 6 to 8 percent in premiums that the president has said are far too high. And it could reduce Medicare spending by $350 billion to $500 billion over 10 years, far more than the rejected Trump-Ryan bill was projected to save.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/...a0-1489b735b3a3_story.html


Washington post has a disclosure that he works for an insurance company at bottom of print article.

Brill is influential.
His 2012 Time piece was well received and frequently referenced.

His 40% figure ignores rebates which make a difference of some $50 billion a year I think.


    
Percy
Member
Posts: 16343
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


(2)
Message 179 of 187 (820331)
09-19-2017 9:33 AM


The Republicans Try, Try Again
Just to get this on the record, the Republicans are again trying to push a repeal of Obamacare through the Senate: New Republican Healthcare Bill

This bill would have these effects:

  • Cause around 30 million people to lose insurance.

  • Let states decide whether to cover pre-existing conditions.

  • Put a cap on Medicaid funding that would cut benefits for seniors and the disabled.

  • Replace insurance and Medicaid subsidies with block grants to states with no mandate for how the funds be spent.

  • Eliminate federal subsidies and the no-insurance penalty, destabilizing funding for Obamacare.

Modern non-third world nations take care of their people. It's like the Republicans come from the 16th century.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 670
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 180 of 187 (820334)
09-19-2017 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by Percy
09-19-2017 9:33 AM


Re: The Republicans Try, Try Again
Cause around 30 million people to lose insurance.

The preceding statement adequately summarizes to me just how ethically bereft some politicians (and people) truly are. How precisely is it an improvement to remove 30 million people from having health insurance? How does this benefit our country?

The true irony is that many of these people will just start leveraging emergency rooms for their standard medical needs, since it is against the law to turn anyone away from medical service. It's funny how Republicans can reconcile that notion with their capitalistic predilections. But mandate the purchasing of insurance to mitigate that cost? Can't do that because it's socialism. And we all know socialism is evil.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Percy, posted 09-19-2017 9:33 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

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