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Author Topic:   Dialogue with a Nonbeliever
Theodorus
Junior Member (Idle past 49 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 12-29-2016


Message 1 of 41 (796667)
01-02-2017 6:15 PM


A new (e)book on the creation vs. evolution topic:

Dialogue with a Nonbeliever: About Science and the Limits of Knowledge, the Big Bang and Evolution, Ancient Christianity & Modern Heterodoxy ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NCOR83Z/ ).


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15930
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 2 of 41 (796670)
01-02-2017 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Theodorus
01-02-2017 6:15 PM


Looks like an anthology of Creationism's Greatest Mistakes. Ooh look, it's even got " Joshua’s Long Day" in it!
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 2750
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 3 of 41 (796672)
01-02-2017 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Dr Adequate
01-02-2017 8:54 PM


"Joshua's Long Day"? Really? That was the second creationist claim thrown at me back in 1970 and it proved to me that creationist claims are nonsense. I was skeptical of the first (living fresh-water mollusc carbon-dated to be thousands of years old -- simply due to the reservoir effect as clearly and explicitly explained by the scientific source), but "Joshua's Long Day" claimed for computers incredible magical powers that I knew were utterly impossible even a decade before the microcomputer era, nearly a decade before my own computer education started. This claim is so bad that most Christian sites I've found that talk about do so to refute it and warn against using it. And here the author even works as a computer programmer and he couldn't tell how bogus it is? Inconceivable!

Out of curiosity, it claims to be a dialogue with a non-believer. Is it really? With whom specifically? Or is it just a rehash of the standard fundamentalist make-believe conversation in which the believer stumps the non-believer with every question and the non-believer or a by-stander ends up converting. During my time with the Jesus Freaks (circa 1970), their proselytizing training materials were filled with such "dialogues", including so many Chick Pubs tracts (those were a hoot and a half!). Disgusting how they believed they couldn't convert anyone just by presenting their religion honestly, but rather had to deceive or bully people into converting. Says a lot about their religion.

Edited by dwise1, : "reservoir effect"


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dwise1
Member
Posts: 2750
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 4 of 41 (796673)
01-02-2017 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Theodorus
01-02-2017 6:15 PM


Does anybody else smell spam?
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 12689
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 5 of 41 (796680)
01-03-2017 3:00 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by dwise1
01-02-2017 9:22 PM


The complete absence of any discussion makes it look like nothing more than advertising.

The introduction is not promising either. the author starts with the assumption that the scientific attempt to understand the universe and its history is an attempt to counter the "obvious" existence of God. Which pretty much concedes the case right at the start.

Also it is clear that this is an apologetic for the Eastern Orthodox Church, and although the introduction claims to be fictionalised accounts of real events, it is very likely that there is more fiction there than the author would admit or even realise.


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Theodorus
Junior Member (Idle past 49 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 12-29-2016


Message 6 of 41 (796683)
01-03-2017 7:05 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by dwise1
01-02-2017 9:15 PM


'but "Joshua's Long Day" claimed for computers incredible magical powers that I knew were utterly impossible'

If you're referring to the alleged discovery of the missing day by NASA's computers, then the book doesn't even allude to that theory.

Edited by Theodorus, : No reason given.


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RAZD
Member
Posts: 18483
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 7 of 41 (796685)
01-03-2017 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Theodorus
01-03-2017 7:05 AM


Welcome to the fray, Theodorus,

but "Joshua's Long Day" claimed for computers incredible magical powers that I knew were utterly impossible'

If you're referring to the alleged discovery of the missing day by NASA's computers, then the book doesn't even allude to that theory.

So what does the book say about Joshua's Long Day" then -- in your words?

Enjoy

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 28851
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 8 of 41 (796686)
01-03-2017 8:18 AM


What utter crap.

Yet more reason that no Creationist should ever be trusted with any position that requires evidence based decision making.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

  
Theodorus
Junior Member (Idle past 49 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 12-29-2016


Message 9 of 41 (796688)
01-03-2017 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by RAZD
01-03-2017 8:05 AM


RAZD writes:

So what does the book say about Joshua's Long Day" then -- in your words?

It's about the legends/myths found worldwide that seem to verify the biblical account.

However, I think it may be better if you read the chapter yourself. Also, seeing your signature, I suspect you might also like the chapter "An Extremely Absurd Theory," it is about Bertrand Russell's teapot and Last Thursdayism.

Amazon allows you to return the eBook, so you can read them for free. I apologize if this sounds ironic, I have no such intentions.

Edited by Theodorus, : No reason given.


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vimesey
Member
Posts: 849
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 10 of 41 (796693)
01-03-2017 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Theodorus
01-03-2017 8:52 AM


Hi Theodorus - I'm afraid the rules of this forum require you to at least paraphrase the contents of texts which you refer people to. It saves lots of people a load of time, and as I say, them's the rules. So can you sketch out the book's thesis, with regard to Joshua's long day please ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

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RAZD
Member
Posts: 18483
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 11 of 41 (796694)
01-03-2017 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Theodorus
01-03-2017 8:52 AM


Not a book club
RAZD writes:

So what does the book say about Joshua's Long Day" then -- in your words?

It's about the legends/myths found worldwide that seem to verify the biblical account.

Curiously I notice that you did not actually answer the question.

However, I think it may be better if you read the chapter yourself. ...

Unfortunately, for you, this is not a book club, but a debate site. You are supposed to present an argument and use quotes from citations to support your position. That way I am debating with you and not a book or a website.

... Also, seeing your signature, I suspect you might also like the chapter "An Extremely Absurd Theory," it is about Bertrand Russell's teapot and Last Thursdayism.

I'm familiar with the argument, but would be curious to see what you think the book says about it. You seem to be waffling on your personal position.

Amazon allows you to return the eBook, so you can read them for free. I apologize if this sounds ironic, I have no such intentions.

Or your only purpose here is to increase use of the Amazon site.

abe: Actually this forum is to present information about books and their availability, and any debate should be taken to a new topic. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : edit


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 28851
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 12 of 41 (796725)
01-03-2017 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Theodorus
01-03-2017 8:52 AM


Too too funny.
It's about the legends/myths found worldwide that seem to verify the biblical account.

That was certainly worth far more than just a chuckle. Legends and myths that seem to verify legends and myths.

Whodathunkit.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Faith
Member
Posts: 24846
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 13 of 41 (796738)
01-03-2017 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by jar
01-03-2017 6:22 PM


Re: Too too funny.
what a ridiculous comment. If there are legends and myths worldwide that seem to validate the Biblical account, and I don't know if there are, but if there are then it is good evidence. Not evidence a Bible believer should need, of course, since we know it's God's word, but good evidence for unbelievers.

Duh.


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Replies to this message:
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Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6096
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003
Member Rating: 4.4


(3)
Message 14 of 41 (796753)
01-03-2017 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
01-03-2017 7:52 PM


Re: Too too funny.
Faith writes:

quote:
what a ridiculous comment.

Foreshadowing.

quote:
If there are legends and myths worldwide that seem to validate the Biblical account, and I don't know if there are,

There aren't.

quote:
but if there are then it is good evidence.

No, it isn't. You assume that similar stories have a single origin. Instead, they can have similar circumstances. For example, there are many flood stories around the world. But the fact that there are stories about a flood killing everything except for a single family in a boat with some animals (you do notice that the Bible's story of Noah is quite similar to the older, Babylonian story of Ut-Napishtim, yes?) doesn't mean there really was a global flood.

Why?

Because you only seem to find these stories in places that experience floods. In cultures that live in places where flooding hardly ever happens, you don't find flood stories. That there are flood stories across disparate cultures isn't evidence of a global flood. It's simply evidence that there are cultures that live in flood plains.

quote:
Not evidence a Bible believer should need, of course, since we know it's God's word, but good evidence for unbelievers.

Not in the slightest. As you said: What a ridiculous comment.


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

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Faith
Member
Posts: 24846
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 15 of 41 (796754)
01-03-2017 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Rrhain
01-03-2017 10:19 PM


Re: Too too funny.

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