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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Percy
Member
Posts: 15561
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 1 of 763 (796762)
01-04-2017 8:20 AM


Time to transition from The 2016 United States Presidential Election to this new thread to cover the Trump presidency.

Trump did a good thing yesterday in using the bully pulpit, er, tweets to force the Republicans to reverse their trashing of the independent ethics committee. Here are a couple other good things Trump wants to do:

  • Change health insurance to a single payer system. I'm not sure he was serious about this, and I don't know what the details are.

  • Repeal the tax law that allows the wealthy to transform interest earnings into long term capital gains that are taxed at about half the rate. This is the law that allows Mitt Romney to pay only 20% in taxes every year when his actual tax bracket is 39.6%.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 01-04-2017 2:38 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 111 by NoNukes, posted 01-13-2017 5:47 PM Percy has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9284
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 2 of 763 (796783)
01-04-2017 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
01-04-2017 8:20 AM


Tweets From Trump
It remains to be seen what effects the new president and presidency will have on History. One thing I have noticed is how effectively Trump uses Twitter. His tweets themselves become news, and i wonder if he will use this media as much when inaugurated.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 01-04-2017 8:20 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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 Message 4 by ProtoTypical, posted 01-04-2017 8:02 PM Phat has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2682
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 3 of 763 (796790)
01-04-2017 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Phat
01-04-2017 2:38 PM


Re: Tweets From Trump
Yea his first tweet will be can you believe the nuclear code is 00000000

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


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ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1701
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


(1)
Message 4 of 763 (796809)
01-04-2017 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Phat
01-04-2017 2:38 PM


Re: Tweets From Trump
One thing I have noticed is how effectively Trump uses Twitter.

Doesn't it strike you as kind of un-Presidential and more like El presidente? My impression is that it is intended only to manipulate the public opinion and has nothing to do with expressing his actual intent. I mean does he really intend to communicate with the Congress by way of Twitter? Has Twitter become the official podium? It seems off to me and more the behaviour of a celebrity than a public servant.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 24403
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 5 of 763 (796816)
01-04-2017 10:04 PM


May you live in interesting times
I wonder if Trump will even get to the Presidency, thanks to the endless efforts by the Democrats to sabotage him. Now Obama is trying to start a war with Russia, which I suppose he hopes will become Trump's problem Either that or create a national emergency that will give a reason for him to remain in office. He's just moved troops near the Russian border.

All this is based on the fake news that Russia interfered with our election. First it was how they hacked our voting machines, which happens to have been an impossibility. Now it's that they are behind the leaks of Democrats' emails which supposedly had the effect of giving Trump the edge in the election. (It's still likely that Trump won the popular vote despite the propaganda, because there was definitely election tempering that favored Hillary by the millions).

abe; Oh the biggest fake news of all I forgot to mention: that the Russians tried to sabotage the power grid in Vermont that powers the whole East Coast. Now I can't remember if it was this or the election fake news that's prompted the sabre-rattling by Obama. /abe

Julian Assange of Wikileaks has said clearly that there is absolutely no evidence that the Russians have had anything to do with any of this. There are rumors that there was definitely interference but not by Russia and that we'll eventually get to hear about it, but I'm wondering when. In any case Obama and the Democrats love their fake news so much they are trying to start a war over it. So far Putin has been acting rationally, apparently understanding what Obama is plotting, and wanting to wait to deal with Trump.

I don't know what is going to happen but I've prayed a lot more these last few weeks over the volatile political situation we're in than I've ever prayed in my life over any political national or world event.

Some people are saying we are blessed to be living in such interesting times. I get the idea but it's hard for me to share it. Old Chinese Curse: May you live in interesting times. These times are WAY too interesting for me.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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 Message 7 by NoNukes, posted 01-05-2017 2:01 AM Faith has responded
 Message 10 by herebedragons, posted 01-05-2017 8:56 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 13 by Modulous, posted 01-05-2017 2:06 PM Faith has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15756
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(3)
Message 6 of 763 (796819)
01-04-2017 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Faith
01-04-2017 10:04 PM


Re: May you live in interesting times
I wonder if Trump will even get to the Presidency, thanks to the endless efforts by the Democrats to sabotage him. Now Obama is trying to start a war with Russia, which I suppose he hopes will become Trump's problem Either that or create a national emergency that will give a reason for him to remain in office. He's just moved troops near the Russian border.

Bet?

All this is based on the fake news that Russia interfered with our election. First it was how they hacked our voting machines, which happens to have been an impossibility. Now it's that they are behind the leaks of Democrats' emails which supposedly had the effect of giving Trump the edge in the election. (It's still likely that Trump won the popular vote despite the propaganda, because there was definitely election tempering that favored Hillary by the millions).

Evidence?

Julian Assange of Wikileaks has said clearly that there is absolutely no evidence that the Russians have had anything to do with any of this. There are rumors that there was definitely interference but not by Russia and that we'll eventually get to hear about it, but I'm wondering when. In any case Obama and the Democrats love their fake news so much they are trying to start a war over it. So far Putin has been acting rationally, apparently understanding what Obama is plotting, and wanting to wait to deal with Trump.

Trump said that Russian hacking was a big problem ... back in 2014, before he realized it was good for him.

Some people are saying we are blessed to be living in such interesting times. I get the idea but it's hard for me to share it. Old Chinese Curse: May you live in interesting times.

Alternatively it seems you can have paranoid delusions and those are just as interesting.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9431
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 7 of 763 (796825)
01-05-2017 2:01 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Faith
01-04-2017 10:04 PM


Is this really representative of how conservatives think?
Faith writes:

I wonder if Trump will even get to the Presidency, thanks to the endless efforts by the Democrats to sabotage him. Now Obama is trying to start a war with Russia, which I suppose he hopes will become Trump's problem Either that or create a national emergency that will give a reason for him to remain in office. He's just moved troops near the Russian border.

Yikes!

Fortunately for us all, reality has a liberal bias.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Faith, posted 01-04-2017 10:04 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 24403
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 8 of 763 (796826)
01-05-2017 5:35 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by NoNukes
01-05-2017 2:01 AM


Re: Is this really representative of how conservatives think?
Which part of this news have you failed to hear because your ears are glued to the fake news sources of the MSM?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by NoNukes, posted 01-05-2017 2:01 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 15561
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


(7)
Message 9 of 763 (796835)
01-05-2017 8:31 AM


A Couple Requests
I'd like to make a couple requests:

  • The topic is not fake news. I suggest someone start a Fake News thread, and everytime an argument starts about fake news the participants can take discussion to that thread.

  • If you're commenting on a news story or about something you read in the news, provide a link.

I'm sorry to be moderating my own thread, I didn't expect to have to do this, but I was very generous in my opening post because I think it important we have a thread for rational and reasonable discussion of the Trump presidency that is rooted in fact. I won't be tolerating posts from the edge of sanity.

--Percy


    
herebedragons
Member
Posts: 1298
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 10 of 763 (796838)
01-05-2017 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Faith
01-04-2017 10:04 PM


Re: May you live in interesting times
Every topic you post on makes it seem as if you live in an alternate universe...

Now Obama is trying to start a war with Russia, which I suppose he hopes will become Trump's problem Either that or create a national emergency that will give a reason for him to remain in office. He's just moved troops near the Russian border.

This troop deployment began back in October in response to Russia making threatening gestures towards Lithuania and other NATO allies in the region. Russia is the aggressor (remember Crimea and the Ukraine? and more recently Syria?) and it seems they have it in their minds to expand the regions under their control. This troop deployment is a statement by the US that we will stand by our allies and defend them if necessary.

Don't get me wrong, the US is not an innocent, we are making power plays of our own. But this has nothing to do with Obama trying to start a war so he can remain in office. That is just crazy conspiracy theory nonsense. The transition of the presidency will happen on Jan 20th regardless of what is going on in Lithuania. It is less than 2 weeks away... this certainly won't escalate that quickly. No one (including the devil himself - Obama) wants a war with Russia... it's a war we can't win - and neither can they.

So far Putin has been acting rationally, apparently understanding what Obama is plotting, and wanting to wait to deal with Trump.

Putin acting rationally? Again, what alternate universe do you live in? Putin certainly IS waiting to deal with Trump because he knows he will get a much warmer reception and will have a much freer hand to do as he wishes. I guess that is rational... but not in a good way.

I don't know what is going to happen but I've prayed a lot more these last few weeks over the volatile political situation we're in than I've ever prayed in my life over any political national or world event.

There is no doubt that we are living in very scary times. But it boggles my mind that you think Trump is our national savior. I get it that you think he was a better choice than Hillary, I get that. But to heap so much praise on the man, and to think that he is going to rescue the US from all evil - that he is a gift from God, just blows my mind. The man is a loose cannon, he just cannot restrain himself from shooting off at the mouth. He is surrounding himself with rich and powerful men just like himself. His promise to "drain the swamp" is empty. Keep in mind that lobbying goes both ways - that is, there are lobbyists on both sides of many issues (ex. there are lobbyists that lobby in favor of relaxing environmental regulations and there are those that lobby in favor of increasing environmental regulations). What Trump appears to be doing is removing the voices of those that oppose him and simply surrounding himself with those that agree with him. Scary, scary, scary.

I predict that we will see some increased prosperity under a Trump administration, but I fear what that prosperity will cost us.

Some people are saying we are blessed to be living in such interesting times. I get the idea but it's hard for me to share it. Old Chinese Curse: May you live in interesting times. These times are WAY too interesting for me.

I concur with this sentiment. I think our world politics could use a bit more boring and mundane. But, don't think for a second, though, that your man Trump is into boring and mundane.

ABE: Per Percy's request here are some related news articles

US troops will head to Poland - July, 2016

US troops heading to front of new Cold War with Putin - Oct, 2016

US sends special forces to RUSSIAN BORDER as Nato is poised to strike back against Vladimir Putin’s ‘aggression’ - Jan, 2017

HBD

Edited by herebedragons, : No reason given.

Edited by herebedragons, : No reason given.


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.5


(5)
Message 11 of 763 (796850)
01-05-2017 12:04 PM


In farewell to U.S. military, Obama calls for ‘seamless’ transition of power to Trump

quote:
“We’ve got to make sure that during this transition period that there is a seamless passing of the baton, that there’s continuity,” Obama said. He said it was critical to ensure that “we are doing everything we can to make sure that the next president will benefit from the same kinds of outstanding advice and service that these people around the table have provided me.”

quote:
Obama’s comments as he sat down with the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the military’s combatant commanders came amid concerns in military and diplomatic circles about how Trump may handle national security challenges. Over the last few days, Trump has disputed the U.S. intelligence community’s assessments about Russian hacking, insisted without explanation that North Korea won’t develop a nuclear weapon that could hit the U.S. and questioned the worth of the United Nations.

quote:
Obama said he was optimistic about the country’s future because the military upholds “the values of rule of law and professionalism and integrity, and recognizes our constitutional structure and maintains strict adherence and respect for civilian authority and democratic practices in determining how we use the awesome force of the American military.”

The contrast between the outgoing and incoming Presidents is quite clear. Obama has conducted himself with dignity and has brought honor to the United States, while Trump displays his ignorance and stupidity daily and is an embarrassment to civilization.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 28667
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 12 of 763 (796851)
01-05-2017 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Tanypteryx
01-05-2017 12:04 PM


It will be interesting to see if the Military Oath of Office becomes an issue as well as the built in conflict found in oath taken by National Guard troops.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Modulous
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Posts: 7407
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 13 of 763 (796854)
01-05-2017 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Faith
01-04-2017 10:04 PM


quick counterpoint
Faith writes:

First it was how they hacked our voting machines, which happens to have been an impossibility.

Faith writes:

Anyway here's some evidence from voter fraud expert Bev Harris. Mostly it's about how the votes are easy to manipulate

Message 454

Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Faith, posted 01-04-2017 10:04 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 24403
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 14 of 763 (796856)
01-05-2017 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Modulous
01-05-2017 2:06 PM


Re: quick counterpoint
Not from Russia.

abe: The word "hacking" unfortunately implies the internet. The machines are not connected to the internet. The internet is the only way they could be hacked from Russia. They are, however, hackable from a central computer, not the internet, but a central computer on a network with the machines. The data from the machines comes into this central computer which can then manipulate it to give different results. Even this network is limited, as I understand it, connecting a limited number of voting machines. But something like this is what Bev Harris was talking about, not internet hacking.

I'm no tech wizard to put it mildly, so all I'm saying is the best I could do with what I got out of Harriis' presentation. There's no point in discussing it further here and I wouldn't have much more to contribute if the topic got moved to another thread either, but if anyone wants to conytinue it, it would have to be moved.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Percy
Member
Posts: 15561
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


(4)
Message 15 of 763 (796859)
01-05-2017 3:28 PM


I hope there won't be a discussion about what Faith really meant when she first said our voting machines were hackable, then said it was impossible the Russians hacked them, then said "not from Russia." It will never be sorted out and it isn't worth derailing the thread.

--Percy


    
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