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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3456
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


Message 2056 of 2558 (834533)
06-07-2018 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 2055 by Chiroptera
06-07-2018 6:40 PM


I read somewhere ...

Not in those same words but the ideas I think you refer to appear in The Federalist Papers, nos. 65 & 66. These were particularly involved with the political nature of impeachment, as opposed to the criminal nature of other prosecutions, and why they chose a larger body of politicians to sit in judgement rather than a smaller panel of jurists.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2055 by Chiroptera, posted 06-07-2018 6:40 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2057 of 2558 (834535)
06-07-2018 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 2052 by Percy
06-07-2018 2:58 PM


Re: Trump accuses Canada of trying to burn White house in 1812
Canada was a British colony during the War of 1812, so even though having no choice in the matter they were on the British side and considered a threat. It's even possible Canadians served in the British unit that burned the White House, though who knows.

Really?

There was no Canada in 1812. And as an indication that Canada is a national security threat, citing the war of 1812 is even more ridiculous given that the burning of the US Capital was done by British Troops as a response to an invasion of Canada by the United States.

We might just as well cite attacks by Native Americans from what is now Canada on what is now the US as a current national security threat.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2052 by Percy, posted 06-07-2018 2:58 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2058 by xongsmith, posted 06-08-2018 3:23 AM NoNukes has not yet responded
 Message 2060 by Percy, posted 06-09-2018 8:29 AM NoNukes has responded
 Message 2068 by caffeine, posted 06-12-2018 12:35 PM NoNukes has responded

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1856
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


(2)
Message 2058 of 2558 (834541)
06-08-2018 3:23 AM
Reply to: Message 2057 by NoNukes
06-07-2018 11:34 PM


Re: Trump accuses Canada of trying to burn White house in 1812
Ah, Justin Trudeau should've just said back to Trump "...I know...they said it was a dump...."

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2057 by NoNukes, posted 06-07-2018 11:34 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15429
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


(3)
Message 2059 of 2558 (834549)
06-08-2018 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 2052 by Percy
06-07-2018 2:58 PM


Re: Trump accuses Canada of trying to burn White house in 1812
Percy writes:

It's even possible Canadians served in the British unit that burned the White House, though who knows.


To be fair, we do like to take credit for it.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2052 by Percy, posted 06-07-2018 2:58 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2061 by Percy, posted 06-09-2018 8:33 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17752
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2060 of 2558 (834631)
06-09-2018 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 2057 by NoNukes
06-07-2018 11:34 PM


Re: Trump accuses Canada of trying to burn White house in 1812
NoNukes writes:

Canada was a British colony during the War of 1812, so even though having no choice in the matter they were on the British side and considered a threat. It's even possible Canadians served in the British unit that burned the White House, though who knows.

Really?

Yes, really. This is just a bit of history with a bit of whimsical speculation. It doesn't mean Trump's citing the burning of the White House during the War of 1812 as evidence of US peril today at Canadian hands wasn't utter inanity.

There was no Canada in 1812.

Not sure what point you're making here. Sure things were organized politically a bit differently back then, but why is referring to it as Canada a problem?

And as an indication that Canada is a national security threat, citing the war of 1812 is even more ridiculous given that the burning of the US Capital was done by British Troops as a response to an invasion of Canada by the United States.

The burning of Washington was in part a reprisal for the burning of Port Dover on Lake Erie by American forces earlier in 1814. To speculate a bit, I think the British would have taken Washington anyway, but because of Port Dover they burned it, too.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2057 by NoNukes, posted 06-07-2018 11:34 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2065 by NoNukes, posted 06-10-2018 5:10 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17752
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 2061 of 2558 (834633)
06-09-2018 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 2059 by ringo
06-08-2018 11:55 AM


Re: Trump accuses Canada of trying to burn White house in 1812
ringo writes:

Percy writes:

It's even possible Canadians served in the British unit that burned the White House, though who knows.


To be fair, we do like to take credit for it.

Trudeau should have taken a tough line with Trump: "Yeah, and if you don't straighten up we'll burn it again!"

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2059 by ringo, posted 06-08-2018 11:55 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 2064 by dwise1, posted 06-10-2018 4:13 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17752
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2062 of 2558 (834641)
06-09-2018 9:04 AM


Reassessing Trump
When Trump became president I viewed him as a buffoon, and my concern was how well the country would survive having an incompetent in charge. I thought we'd emerge okay.

My views have changed. While Trump is ignorant and buffoonish concerning many things, he has the instincts, inclinations and innate cunning of a tyrant. I no longer think we'll emerge okay. His tax cuts will either cause extreme inflation or, more likely, a severe trimming of the federal budget through drastic cutbacks in social programs. Allies and trading partners will become more and more alienated, raising the price of goods and increasing inflation. There's some weird thing between Trump and Russia that will only become more weird, and there's no way to predict where it will lead. Tariffs will hurt American business and the unemployment trend will soon reverse and begin growing again, not this year, but soon enough to become an issue in the 2020 election. Recession is possible. The reversal of some of the protections put in place after the 2008 financial meltdown will cause yet another financial meltdown, though the timing and specifics are impossible to predict. Our institutions are under attack. Congress has become a Trump lackey. A constitutional crisis may yet rise out of Trump's efforts to hold Mueller at bay.

Relevant editorial in today's Washington Post: Trump is no joke

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 2074 by Stile, posted 06-13-2018 11:39 AM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17752
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2063 of 2558 (834697)
06-10-2018 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1481 by Modulous
10-29-2017 2:11 PM


Re: the attribution
Modulous writes:

No, there was a referendum to switch our General Election to AV or IRV, but the result was a 'No'.

Maine has switched to IRV and will use it in their June 12th primaries. Also on the ballot is an item about keeping IRV.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1481 by Modulous, posted 10-29-2017 2:11 PM Modulous has not yet responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3192
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 2064 of 2558 (834724)
06-10-2018 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 2061 by Percy
06-09-2018 8:33 AM


Re: Trump accuses Canada of trying to burn White house in 1812
Trudeau should have taken a tough line with Trump: "Yeah, and if you don't straighten up we'll burn it again!"

To Trump that isn't a threat. Instead, loss of the White House buildings la 1814 would only give him the excuse to move business to office spaces belonging to his businesses so he can lease them to the US Govt, at full price of course. Plus, those offices would be serviced (eg, catering, custodial) by others of Trump's businesses. And all the while, the cash will be flowing into Trump's own pockets.

Anyone who doubts that outcome, just consider how it's gone so far. Seemingly endless golf weekends at Trump resorts where the US Govt had to pay Trump for his large entourage to travel to and from that Trump resort where the US Govt had to pay Trump for their rooms and meals, again at full price I have to assume. Both campaign headquarters (2016 & 2020) are in Trump Tower where they pay a lease to Trump. While there, they are catered by Trump caterers. That's even more money flowing into Trump's pockets. With all this talk about Trump not wanting to win the election, it should seem odd that practically the very next day Trump filed to run for re-election. But considering how profitable Trump found his campaign to be, he wanted to keep that cash cow alive.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2061 by Percy, posted 06-09-2018 8:33 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2065 of 2558 (834739)
06-10-2018 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 2060 by Percy
06-09-2018 8:29 AM


Re: Trump accuses Canada of trying to burn White house in 1812
Not sure what point you're making here. Sure things were organized politically a bit differently back then, but why is referring to it as Canada a problem?

Because that would be incorrect and misleading? Did the example I gave about Native Americans not make my point.

What's wrong with referring to the British government in 1812 as Canada is that it is ridiculous.

ABE:

"political organized a bit differently"

Completely differently, Percy.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2060 by Percy, posted 06-09-2018 8:29 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2066 by Percy, posted 06-12-2018 10:12 AM NoNukes has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17752
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2066 of 2558 (834798)
06-12-2018 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 2065 by NoNukes
06-10-2018 5:10 PM


Re: Trump accuses Canada of trying to burn White house in 1812
NoNukes writes:

Because that would be incorrect and misleading? Did the example I gave about Native Americans not make my point.

Not really.

What's wrong with referring to the British government in 1812 as Canada is that it is ridiculous.

Agreed, though not anything I said.

"politically organized a bit differently"

Completely differently, Percy.

What was so different?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2065 by NoNukes, posted 06-10-2018 5:10 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2067 by NoNukes, posted 06-12-2018 12:06 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2067 of 2558 (834802)
06-12-2018 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 2066 by Percy
06-12-2018 10:12 AM


Re: Trump accuses Canada of trying to burn White house in 1812
What was so different?

I cannot take this question seriously. You may have the last word.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2066 by Percy, posted 06-12-2018 10:12 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1504
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 2068 of 2558 (834803)
06-12-2018 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 2057 by NoNukes
06-07-2018 11:34 PM


Re: Trump accuses Canada of trying to burn White house in 1812
There was no Canada in 1812.

There were two Canadas in 1812.

Not really sure what the relevance of this discussion is, but I have a more serious question.

Trump keeps justifying his tarrifs with comments about how bad the US trade deals are withother countries - is he right? I've not actually seen this addressed at all in the press.

One thing he tweeted about the other day was the extraordinarily high duty Canada slaps on US dairy imports, and it appears Trump was correct - Canada charges duty of 270% on dairy. It's not a duty targeted at the US, of course - it applies to everyone, though I'm sure it's likely that US dairy producers are worst hit for geographical reasons.

Clearly I don't understand things like NAFTA - how is it that Canada is slapping such enormous markups on imports from its NAFTA partners, and does the US have similar tarriffs on other products? In Europe we have a European Free Trade Area; within which there are almost no duties - that's kind of the point. Clearly NAFTA is not the same thing.

But my bigger question is whether Trump is actually right for once. Do American producers face bigger barriers in exportng to Europe or Canada than vice versa? Or is Trump once again talking out of his arse?


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 15429
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 2069 of 2558 (834804)
06-12-2018 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 2068 by caffeine
06-12-2018 12:35 PM


Re: Trump accuses Canada of trying to burn White house in 1812
caffeine writes:

... how is it that Canada is slapping such enormous markups on imports from its NAFTA partners...?


The US has a gun lobby; we have a milk lobby.

Supply management in the dairy industry is designed to stabilize the supply of milk in Canada and ensure a fair price for the producers without direct subsidies. My impression is that the policy exists largely to appease Quebec.

By the way:

quote:
U.S. dairy exports to Canada in 2016: US$631.6 million.

Canadian dairy exports to the U.S. in 2016: $112.6 million. source


So, waa waa waa, poor babies.

caffeine writes:

In Europe we have a European Free Trade Area; within which there are almost no duties - that's kind of the point. Clearly NAFTA is not the same thing.


"Free trade Agreement" is an oxymoron. If you have to agree on what isn't free, it isn't free.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2068 by caffeine, posted 06-12-2018 12:35 PM caffeine has not yet responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1726
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 2070 of 2558 (834805)
06-12-2018 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 2068 by caffeine
06-12-2018 12:35 PM


Re: Trump accuses Canada of trying to burn White house in 1812
nada charges duty of 270% on dairy. It's not a duty targeted at the US, of course - it applies to everyone, though I'm sure it's likely that US dairy producers are worst hit for geographical reasons.

the tariff is aimed at equalizing the prices between canadian dairy products and the heavily government subsidized US dairy products. (or so i've read)

Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
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