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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1273
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2581 of 2605 (842762)
11-07-2018 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 2573 by RAZD
11-07-2018 10:27 AM


Hopefully liberals are genuinely for rights of ALL.
On the Democrats.

quote:

They need to stop being anti-progressive and they need to return to being for workers.

"Workers" (meaning unions or not?) have a history of only wanting rights for themselves.

Historically, there have been lots of liberals who don't want blacks protected.

It took quite a while to get unions to see blacks as equals to whites.

To this day,union members (not just whites, but blacks too) talk endlessly about immigrants and foreigners somehow needing to be KEPT POOR because the "other's" increased wealth and rights will somehow take away from the worthy one.

I dont know too much about these jokers the Democrats just elected (they got 2 seats in southern Florida from what would have been pro immigration Republican areas), but we shall see if they genuinely believe in the rights of "others".

I remain skeptical.

One clue will be if Democrats start to support guest worker's programs (which means increasing the number alloted by many hundreds of thousands and making it much easier for foreigners to get approved).

Another clue will be whether Democrats open up and tell the truth about the worlds Communist partys being the driving force for civil rights and ALL workers rights (remember, the French Socialist party didn't support rights for the various colony's workers, ONLY French workers) as the Communist party was the only American party, in 1919, calling for civil rights.

The even bigger clue will be whether American unions stop their phony-baloney "concern" for foreigners "labor rights" just so they can stop cold trade deals. They need to prove they are concerned by supporting guest worker programs, and admit they do not and have not cared about foreign workers.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2573 by RAZD, posted 11-07-2018 10:27 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 2587 by Taq, posted 11-08-2018 12:06 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 19663
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 2582 of 2605 (842771)
11-08-2018 7:02 AM
Reply to: Message 2576 by Diomedes
11-07-2018 11:46 AM


Re: My take
I don't get the sense that Democrats are anti-progressive. ...

The DNC tried to squash a number of progressive candidates, and they have said that the progressives will be put on a leash if elected.

I think the solution is that Democrats need to start acting like liberals again. ...

Agreed, and that means more than supporting Medicare for All and $15/hr minimum wage. They need to welcome the other liberal parties into a broader liberal base, from the Green Party to the Working Families Party to the Social Democrats Party.

They need to be serious about climate change and how our armed forces are used around the world, take responsibility for the results of interfering in other countries that then results in refugees.

Have open nation wide primaries and use ranked or instant runoff voting to whittle down candidates to ones that are strong consensus candidates. The 2020 election could have a bucket load of candidates, and the archaic first-past-the-post single vote system is an abject failure at dealing with more than 2 candidates (why Arnold won governor of California).

Democrats need to start listening to the common man again ...

They need to take a good hard long look at what Beto O'Rourke accomplished in heavy red-state Texas, nearly winning (48.3% to 51% for Cruz).

... I would like to see Democrats having honest conversations with workers and finding real solutions to the problems they face. If workers are upset about jobs being shipped overseas, tackle that problem directly. If they are concerned about immigrants taking their jobs, talk to them and explain the truth. Ignoring their concerns just allows the fear mongering from the right to fester.

Education plus listening, and putting together an immigration program that meets the needs of people and the companies that need workers -- jobs Americans don't seem to want ...

Enjoy


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 2576 by Diomedes, posted 11-07-2018 11:46 AM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2586 by Diomedes, posted 11-08-2018 9:26 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
 Message 2591 by caffeine, posted 11-08-2018 1:41 PM RAZD has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17861
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 2583 of 2605 (842774)
11-08-2018 7:49 AM


CNN's Jim Acosta Barred from White House
Jim Acosta, CNN's White House correspondent, has been barred from the White House after yesterday's presidential press conference where he aggressively tried to ask two questions, refusing to yield the microphone to an intern after the first. Almost every reporter asked two questions. Trump verbally attacked Acosta for trying to ask his questions, as he did to several other reporters. See the 2nd video in Message 2580 for the attack on Acosta and NBC's Peter Alexander. See the 1st video starting at time 19:25 and watch for maybe 15 minutes to see Trump attack not just Acosta and Alexander, but also several other reporters.

CNN will have to give Jim Acosta a new assignment, and assign someone new to the White House.

--Percy


    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17861
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 2584 of 2605 (842775)
11-08-2018 8:47 AM


More 2018 Election Results
The Democrats experienced a great deal of success at the state level in the 2018 midterms. They flipped more than 300 state legislative seats, and they now have the majority of the nation's attorney general offices. As already reported Democrats picked up seven governorships.

Stacy Abrams has not yet conceded the Georgia gubernatorial race, and her hope that uncounted early and absentee ballots will bring her close enough to Brian Kemp to force a runoff seems possible but unlikely.

Source

--Percy


    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17861
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 2585 of 2605 (842776)
11-08-2018 8:56 AM


The Constitutions Implied Powers
With all the clamor in the news about House Democrats planning investigations into the Trump administration, beginning with his tax returns and exercising an oversight responsibility completely abdicated by Republicans, it is worth mentioning that the Congress's oversight responsibility over the other branches is not an expressed power of the constitution. It is an implied power that has been ruled on several times by the Supreme Court. For those with an interest there's an article about it over at Wikipedia: Congressional Oversight

--Percy


    
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 739
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 2586 of 2605 (842777)
11-08-2018 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 2582 by RAZD
11-08-2018 7:02 AM


Re: My take
I don't get the sense that Democrats are anti-progressive. ...

The DNC tried to squash a number of progressive candidates

Granted. But I think that has more to do with just elitism than it does with anti-progressiveness. The Republicans tried to squash Trump's nomination as well. The establishment in both parties is very entrenched. Which is part in parcel with the problem and why we are seeing a wave of populism manifesting both here and overseas.

Have open nation wide primaries and use ranked or instant runoff voting to whittle down candidates to ones that are strong consensus candidates. The 2020 election could have a bucket load of candidates, and the archaic first-past-the-post single vote system is an abject failure at dealing with more than 2 candidates (why Arnold won governor of California).

In addition, get rid of the idiotic super delegate system in the Democratic presidential primary process. It is one of the most un-democratic concepts that can exist and smacks of the very elitism that causes people to chastise politicians. Say what you want about Republicans, but their nomination process is more democratic.

They need to take a good hard long look at what Beto O'Rourke accomplished in heavy red-state Texas, nearly winning (48.3% to 51% for Cruz).

From what I read, he is already under consideration for being a strong contender for the presidency on the Democrat side.

Education plus listening, and putting together an immigration program that meets the needs of people and the companies that need workers -- jobs Americans don't seem to want ...

And stop using labels against people who may have concerns about illegal immigration. The knee jerk reaction for many on the left when someone voices concern with illegal immigration is to just outright call them a racist. They did this in the UK as well leading up to Brexit. Which was mostly laughable since the vast majority of immigrants to the UK were from Poland, Romania and Bulgaria.

One other sidebar for the Democratic party: distance yourselves from the Clintons. Hillary Clinton is not popular even among many on the left after it came to light that she worked behind the scenes to railroad Bernie Sander's campaign. Also, while Bill Clinton is popular, allowing him to stump for the Democrats smacks of hypocrisy in light of #MeToo. As liberals, if we are going to be champions for women's rights and protection in the workplace, we have to acknowledge that Bill is not a great example of that mindset. I don't discount his accomplishments as president. I think he was an excellent president. But I also think Tiger Woods is an excellent golfer. But I wouldn't want either of my nieces anywhere near him.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2582 by RAZD, posted 11-08-2018 7:02 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 2596 by Percy, posted 11-08-2018 5:18 PM Diomedes has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7592
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 2587 of 2605 (842789)
11-08-2018 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 2581 by LamarkNewAge
11-07-2018 7:01 PM


Re: Hopefully liberals are genuinely for rights of ALL.
LamarkNewAge writes:

I dont know too much about these jokers the Democrats just elected (they got 2 seats in southern Florida from what would have been pro immigration Republican areas), but we shall see if they genuinely believe in the rights of "others".

I remain skeptical.

Pelosi has stated quite clearly that protecting DACA recipients is high on the priority list.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2581 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-07-2018 7:01 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11403
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2588 of 2605 (842790)
11-08-2018 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 2581 by LamarkNewAge
11-07-2018 7:01 PM


Re: Hopefully liberals are genuinely for rights of ALL.
LNA writes:

To this day, union members (not just whites, but blacks too) talk endlessly about immigrants and foreigners somehow needing to be KEPT POOR because the "other's" increased wealth and rights will somehow take away from the worthy one.

I am pro-union. A union is successful by promoting and training a controlled group of workers who gain wage increases based on experience and seniority. This system depends on unity and common purpose within this group of workers, as well as agreed upon wages and wage increases with the employer. To add guest workers to this equation can destroy the wage scale as the guest workers will work at lower wages than the agreed upon wages within the union/employer contract itself. Its not a matter of keeping anyone poor...its about controlling how many new workers the company is allowed to absorb in order to maintain wage balance within the industry.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2581 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-07-2018 7:01 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2589 by Tangle, posted 11-08-2018 1:33 PM Phat has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6229
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 2589 of 2605 (842791)
11-08-2018 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 2588 by Phat
11-08-2018 1:30 PM


Re: Hopefully liberals are genuinely for rights of ALL.
Phat writes:

I am pro-union. A union is successful by promoting and training a controlled group of workers who gain wage increases based on experience and seniority. This system depends on unity and common purpose within this group of workers, as well as agreed upon wages and wage increases with the employer.

Hey, smells of socialism to me.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2588 by Phat, posted 11-08-2018 1:30 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2590 by Phat, posted 11-08-2018 1:39 PM Tangle has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11403
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2590 of 2605 (842792)
11-08-2018 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 2589 by Tangle
11-08-2018 1:33 PM


Re: Hopefully liberals are genuinely for rights of ALL.
Unions are socialist to a limited degree, but they look out for the interests of local populations first before inviting workers in from all over. At my place of employment, we seem to have trouble even keeping domestic workers employed in new positions. We could take on guest workers to a limited degree, but they would have to join the union of course.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2589 by Tangle, posted 11-08-2018 1:33 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2592 by Tangle, posted 11-08-2018 1:47 PM Phat has responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1513
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 2591 of 2605 (842793)
11-08-2018 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 2582 by RAZD
11-08-2018 7:02 AM


Re: My take
quote:
Have open nation wide primaries and use ranked or instant runoff voting to whittle down candidates to ones that are strong consensus candidates. The 2020 election could have a bucket load of candidates, and the archaic first-past-the-post single vote system is an abject failure at dealing with more than 2 candidates (why Arnold won governor of California).

If you had some kind of runoff voting system then there's no need for open primaries. The only reason you have this strange primary system in the US is because your system favours everyone deciding to get behind one of two candidates. Change the system to one without this bias and the Republican and Democratic parties would be free to fracture into parties representing the half a dozen or so ideologies they currently subsume.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2582 by RAZD, posted 11-08-2018 7:02 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2594 by Taq, posted 11-08-2018 3:19 PM caffeine has responded
 Message 2598 by RAZD, posted 11-09-2018 8:50 AM caffeine has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6229
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 2592 of 2605 (842794)
11-08-2018 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 2590 by Phat
11-08-2018 1:39 PM


Re: Hopefully liberals are genuinely for rights of ALL.
Phat writes:

Unions are socialist to a limited degree

You realise that socialism was founded on unionisation or workers collectives? They're pretty much its basic building block. Sheesh, you'll be a liberal next.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2590 by Phat, posted 11-08-2018 1:39 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2593 by Phat, posted 11-08-2018 1:53 PM Tangle has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11403
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2593 of 2605 (842795)
11-08-2018 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 2592 by Tangle
11-08-2018 1:47 PM


Re: Hopefully liberals are genuinely for rights of ALL.
I conside myself a political moderate. There are aspects of both platforms that I like...but at 59 years of age, with health conditions and need of a secure pension, I opt to support the union that I belong to. The corporations will spit you out and get rid of you when they no longer have use for you. Many of Trumps base are anti-union.

For a worker with no college education (though I am smarter than many of my college friends) supporting the union is my best ticket to a decent retirement.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2592 by Tangle, posted 11-08-2018 1:47 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2595 by Tangle, posted 11-08-2018 4:37 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7592
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 2594 of 2605 (842798)
11-08-2018 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 2591 by caffeine
11-08-2018 1:41 PM


Re: My take
caffeine writes:

If you had some kind of runoff voting system then there's no need for open primaries. The only reason you have this strange primary system in the US is because your system favours everyone deciding to get behind one of two candidates. Change the system to one without this bias and the Republican and Democratic parties would be free to fracture into parties representing the half a dozen or so ideologies they currently subsume.

That wouldn't work. If one party fields 5 candidates while the other party fields 1 candidate then the party with 1 candidate will have a much better chance of winning. If you take the top 2 candidates and then a run off you can have a situation where 2 candidates from the same party are running which favors running just 2 candidates in the initial election. If you take the top vote getters in each party and then have them go head to head you have the primary system.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2591 by caffeine, posted 11-08-2018 1:41 PM caffeine has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2603 by caffeine, posted 11-10-2018 5:12 AM Taq has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6229
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 2595 of 2605 (842816)
11-08-2018 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 2593 by Phat
11-08-2018 1:53 PM


Re: Hopefully liberals are genuinely for rights of ALL.
Phat writes:

supporting the union is my best ticket to a decent retirement.

And supporting a church is you best ticket to a decent afterlife.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2593 by Phat, posted 11-08-2018 1:53 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
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