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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3518
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 2626 of 2663 (843850)
11-21-2018 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 2625 by Minnemooseus
11-21-2018 9:52 PM


Re: I'm Done with Michael Avenatti
He may well be guilty, but this is a guilty until proven innocent system. In what conceivable way might Avenatti "prove himself innocent"?

In a court of law you are correct. In the court of public opinion things can be different. The only thing we can do is wait until all the liars stories are available and then compare. Let the investigation run its due.

Given the history of abuse in this country, especially among men of prominence and power, we must consider the victims statements as plausible, not necessarily true, but given the benefit of any doubt until something shows otherwise.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2625 by Minnemooseus, posted 11-21-2018 9:52 PM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1758
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


(5)
Message 2627 of 2663 (843851)
11-21-2018 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 2624 by Percy
11-21-2018 12:00 PM


Re: I'm Done with Michael Avenatti
Until proven otherwise Avenatti has disqualified himself as a politician

when did he ever qualify himself as a politician? this "lets get a celebrity to run instead of a politician" thinking needs to stop here and now.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2624 by Percy, posted 11-21-2018 12:00 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 2628 by AZPaul3, posted 11-21-2018 11:43 PM DrJones* has not yet responded
 Message 2630 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-22-2018 12:27 AM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3518
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 2628 of 2663 (843852)
11-21-2018 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 2627 by DrJones*
11-21-2018 11:32 PM


Re: I'm Done with Michael Avenatti
this "lets get a celebrity to run instead of a politician" thinking needs to stop here and now.

In this instant electronic media world there is no longer a difference.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2627 by DrJones*, posted 11-21-2018 11:32 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14547
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 2629 of 2663 (843853)
11-22-2018 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 2625 by Minnemooseus
11-21-2018 9:52 PM


Re: I'm Done with Michael Avenatti
quote:

He may well be guilty, but this is a guilty until proven innocent system. In what conceivable way might Avenatti "prove himself innocent"?

No, this is a balance of probabilities system. While the evidence against was weak - low quality sources, no idea as to the alleged victim’s identity - I was willing to suspend judgement. That’s changed.

Avenatti claims to have exonerating evidence. If he really does then he can produce it, and it can be evaluated. But at the moment the available evidence makes a good case against him.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2625 by Minnemooseus, posted 11-21-2018 9:52 PM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1895
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 2630 of 2663 (843854)
11-22-2018 12:27 AM
Reply to: Message 2627 by DrJones*
11-21-2018 11:32 PM


Re: I'm Done with Michael Avenatti
this "lets get a celebrity to run instead of a politician" thinking needs to stop here and now.

I agree with the sentiment. Most of the things most celebrities are celebrated for I find disqualifying to becoming policy makers.

I am delighted to see that several scientists were elected to Congress in the 2018 election. There were 6 or 7 or 8 depending on the timing of the news stories and several stories listed the types of scientist, including a nurse, these new members were.

A nurse scientist? I think nursing is a difficult and noble profession and I know nurses take quite a few science classes, but I don't think many nurses think of themselves as a scientist.

I hope for the sciencefication of both houses of Congress. The antisci movement in American society by the people who were too lazy or too stupid to learn basic science in high school can no longer be in charge of policy and management. It is becoming an unmitigated disaster for the U.S. but also messes things up for the rest of the planet, friend and foe alike.

I worry that the rhetoric and outright accusations we saw in many places around the country from Trump and Co. about voter fraud in this election is a trial run at declaring the 2020 election invalid, if Trump loses, and declaring himself the winner. They got a lot of Trumpets all riled up and threatening.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2627 by DrJones*, posted 11-21-2018 11:32 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6531
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 2631 of 2663 (843871)
11-22-2018 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 2625 by Minnemooseus
11-21-2018 9:52 PM


Different venues, different standards
I have to agree with several other responses, which is a sentiment I've felt since #MeToo became a thing.

Innocent until proven guilty is appropriate for a criminal trial when the accused is facing the loss of most of their civil liberties. We want to be as certain as we can that a person is guilty so that the state doesn't inflict such extreme punishments on an innocent person.

On the other hand, when it comes to holding an office of authority and trust, then I as a citizen have a duty to make sure the candidate is the person I want in that position. Remember, no one has a right to be a president, a senator, or a Supreme Court justice. In fact, I will say that it's not unreasonable to expect the candidate to "prove" that they deserve our trust and respect.

Edited by Chiroptera, : Rewrote the last sentence.


Hell hath no fury like a white man scorned. If you take nothing else from the Senate’s confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh, take that much. -- Kai Wright

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2625 by Minnemooseus, posted 11-21-2018 9:52 PM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17968
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 2632 of 2663 (843942)
11-23-2018 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 2625 by Minnemooseus
11-21-2018 9:52 PM


Re: I'm Done with Michael Avenatti
Minnemooseus writes:

I believe the woman. Until proven otherwise Avenatti has disqualified himself as a politician.

He may well be guilty, but this is a guilty until proven innocent system. In what conceivable way might Avenatti "prove himself innocent"?

This isn't a courtroom. This is about the character of someone you might want to hire in some capacity, perhaps as a lawyer, perhaps as an elected official. He doesn't rise above the "unimpeachable character" threshold in my book.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2625 by Minnemooseus, posted 11-21-2018 9:52 PM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17968
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 2633 of 2663 (843943)
11-23-2018 8:27 AM


Trump is Most Thankful for...Himself
What Trump is most thankful for this Thanksgiving is...himself: Trump Is ‘Most Thankful’ For His Own ‘Tremendous’ Work. Twitter’s Jaw Drops. I can just hear Trump at the Thanksgiving Day table:

quote:
Thank you dear Lord for me and my great accomplishments this year in tearing apart both the big and the small, both families and international alliances, both a free press and the global environment. We give further thanks for my building bridges between my administration and racists and white nationalists. We must also thank Mohammed bin Salman and Saudi Arabia for purchasing so many millions of dollars of our weapons of war so that they may bomb and starve the Shiite people of Yemen. And lastly but not least we must thank Vladamir Putin and Russia for making possible this wonderful dinner here at Mar-a-Lago. Amen.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 2634 by ringo, posted 11-23-2018 11:23 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15740
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 2634 of 2663 (843948)
11-23-2018 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 2633 by Percy
11-23-2018 8:27 AM


Re: Trump is Most Thankful for...Himself
I can just hear Trump at the Thanksgiving Day table:
"Dear Me, who art in the White House, hallowed be my name. My kingdom come. My will be done on earth as it is in heaven...."

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2633 by Percy, posted 11-23-2018 8:27 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17968
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 2635 of 2663 (844159)
11-26-2018 7:36 AM


The House Democratic Platform
Nancy Pelosi and John Sarbaines have published an opinion piece in today's Washington Post detailing the platform for the Democratic Party in the House (The Democratic majority’s first order of business: Restore democracy). It's ambitious and detailed. A summary:

  • Reform the recent tax cuts so the impact is greatest at the top, restoring fairness and reducing the deficit.

  • Bring a halt to partisan gerrymandering.

  • Restore the Voting Rights Act as a guarantor of the right to vote, bringing a halt to Republican voter suppression efforts.

  • Focus a spotlight on dark money in politics and reverse the effects the Supreme Cour's Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission decision, stopping the flood of money into political campaigns.

  • Close the revolving door between politician and industry, where former politicians go on to serve on the boards of major corporations, in effect selling their Washington connections and influence.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Formatting.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2636 by Pressie, posted 11-26-2018 7:54 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1965
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.0


(1)
Message 2636 of 2663 (844160)
11-26-2018 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 2635 by Percy
11-26-2018 7:36 AM


Re: The House Democratic Platform
Percy writes:

Close the revolving door between politician and industry, where former politicians go on to serve on the boards of major corporations, in effect selling their Washington connections and influence.

That must be stopped immediately. I remember Bill coming to Sydney and charging an arm and a leg just to talk nonsense while on the boards of quite a few major Aussie corporations just because what he was. It should be illegal.

Bill should be rocking in an armchair somewhere in Arkansas.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2635 by Percy, posted 11-26-2018 7:36 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17968
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 2637 of 2663 (844243)
11-27-2018 6:17 AM


Trump's Opportunity to Show He's Tough on Russia
Russia fired on three Ukrainian ships sailing off the coast of Crimea (which Russia annexed from the Ukraine in 2014) and then seized them, claiming they were in Russian territorial waters because Russia had temporarily closed an area of water for shipping. Details about how international waters became temporary Russian waters because Russia had closed an area of water were not in any article I read, but my guess is that does have some sort of legal basis that references treaties and/or international law.

Nicki Haley, the US representative at the UN, called the incident an "outrageous violation of sovereign Ukrainian territory." How will Trump deal with this, especially given his strong condemnation of Obama for allowing Russia to annex the Crimea?

Sources:


--Percy
Replies to this message:
 Message 2638 by caffeine, posted 11-27-2018 7:07 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 2639 by nwr, posted 11-27-2018 9:30 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1551
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 2638 of 2663 (844244)
11-27-2018 7:07 AM
Reply to: Message 2637 by Percy
11-27-2018 6:17 AM


Re: Trump's Opportunity to Show He's Tough on Russia
Details about how international waters became temporary Russian waters because Russia had closed an area of water were not in any article I read, but my guess is that does have some sort of legal basis that references treaties and/or international law.

These aren't international waters. Who they do belong to is a matter of dispute - Russia and Ukraine never came to any formal agreement on the exact borderlines; and obviously with recent events this is looking unlikely. The issue was mostly avoided by a treaty guaranteeing free navigation through the Kerch strait and throughout the Sea of Azov for Russian and Ukrainian vessels. The official Russian explanation is that the strait was blocked for security reasons; because the Ukrainian ships had not followed proper procedures for notifying the port authorities in Kerch, and had carried out 'dangerous manoeuvres'.

Edited by caffeine, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2637 by Percy, posted 11-27-2018 6:17 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5584
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 2639 of 2663 (844305)
11-27-2018 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 2637 by Percy
11-27-2018 6:17 AM


Re: Trump's Opportunity to Show He's Tough on Russia
How will Trump deal with this, especially given his strong condemnation of Obama for allowing Russia to annex the Crimea?

He will pretend to get tough on Russia. That might be enough to fool his supporters, but he won't really get tough. He has shown that he is not willing to get tough on Russia.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2637 by Percy, posted 11-27-2018 6:17 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 2640 by dwise1, posted 11-27-2018 10:02 PM nwr has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3207
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 2640 of 2663 (844307)
11-27-2018 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 2639 by nwr
11-27-2018 9:30 PM


Re: Trump's Opportunity to Show He's Tough on Russia
With all due respect ...

Trump is obviously drooling over the opportunity to give his beloved Vlad yet another very loving blow job: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4DdLYb5AvQ

In less graphic terms, Trump is so far into debt with the Russians that no personal debasement could ever be too great. Nothing means more to Trump than money.


This message is a reply to:
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