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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
jar
Member
Posts: 29803
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 391 of 1568 (799824)
02-16-2017 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 390 by RAZD
02-16-2017 7:29 AM


likely not treason
RAZD writes:

And I certainly don't think any appointments should be approved until this Russian scandal is sorted out -- if Russia did alter the outcome of the election in exchange for lifting sanctions that is treason.

I'm not at all sure that is true. Consider the issue of Iran refusing to release hostage until after the election and which had a direct bearing on the outcome of the election and the later Iran Contra affair and the destruction of documentation by the Reagan administration where neither were considered treason.

Edited by jar, : fix sub-titles


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Percy
Member
Posts: 16339
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 392 of 1568 (799825)
02-16-2017 8:24 AM


Topic Reminder
This isn't a thread for trashing Trump. It's for rational fact-based discussion of the Trump presidency.

--Percy


    
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 670
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 393 of 1568 (799828)
02-16-2017 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 255 by Diomedes
02-01-2017 9:48 AM


Fox News Under Federal Investigation
http://money.cnn.com/...-s-attorney-investigation/index.html

quote:
The U.S. Justice Department is investigating whether Fox News failed to inform shareholders about settlements made with employees who charged former chairman and CEO Roger Ailes with sexual harassment, a source with knowledge of the matter told CNNMoney.

"I was told by the U.S. attorney's office there is an ongoing criminal investigation, relating to these allegations, all of these allegations," Burstein said, according to The New York Daily News. The subpoena, which was issued by U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara's office, included "alleged violations of criminal law by Fox," Burstein said.


Now I am not sure if this is fake news about real news network for real news about a fake news network. Or if this is all 'alternative facts'. I'm so confused...


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Percy
Member
Posts: 16339
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 394 of 1568 (799833)
02-16-2017 2:00 PM


Trump Press Conference: Surreal
I've been watching for about a half hour, it's surreal, this is live coverage, I don't know how much is left: Trump Press Conference.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
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vimesey
Member
Posts: 888
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 395 of 1568 (799834)
02-16-2017 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 394 by Percy
02-16-2017 2:00 PM


Re: Trump Press Conference: Surreal
It won't make any difference to the dyed-in-the-wool Trump supporters. If he consumed a baby live on stage, they'd cheer for him.

What might happen, I guess, is that increasing numbers of Republicans might start to realise that the guy is totally out of control, and that they need to wrest back the reigns of power.

Not a great alternative, but it has to be a safer bet.

Kudos to the reporter who caught him out on the biggest victory thing though :-)


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

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jar
Member
Posts: 29803
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 396 of 1568 (799838)
02-16-2017 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 394 by Percy
02-16-2017 2:00 PM


Re: Trump Press Conference: Surreal
It will play well. He does understand where his support lies.

But history shows that over the long term it is unwise to piss on the person that controls the news and the keeper of the secrets.

Now it is simply a matter of seeing if history holds true.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Phat
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Posts: 10240
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 397 of 1568 (799840)
02-16-2017 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 396 by jar
02-16-2017 3:39 PM


Re: Trump Press Conference: Surreal
One theme that I noticed was that Trump claimed that the "classified" or "confidential" discussions that he had with foreign leaders were "illegally" making their way into the press.

How would this happen?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 13374
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 398 of 1568 (799841)
02-16-2017 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 397 by Phat
02-16-2017 4:05 PM


Re: Trump Press Conference: Surreal
quote:

One theme that I noticed was that Trump claimed that the "classified" or "confidential" discussions that he had with foreign leaders were "illegally" making their way into the press.
How would this happen?

I think he means the reports on his phone calls released by his press office...


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jar
Member
Posts: 29803
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


(1)
Message 399 of 1568 (799842)
02-16-2017 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 397 by Phat
02-16-2017 4:05 PM


Re: Trump Press Conference: Surreal
Phat writes:

One theme that I noticed was that Trump claimed that the "classified" or "confidential" discussions that he had with foreign leaders were "illegally" making their way into the press.

How would this happen?

There are many nefarious ways that could happen. For example there could be people standing around watching and taking selfies and tweeting while he is holding "classified" or "confidential" discussions with foreign leaders or maybe he could be using an unsecured cell phone that is subject to being tapped and monitored or maybe his calls are being monitored by US or foreign governments and the contents leaked to the media or maybe he pissed off the intelligence community and called them incompetent and you cannot expect incompetent people to be able to keep secrets can you?

AbE: One thing that has to be emphasized, particularly in this case.

If an Intelligence Agency is legitimately listening and monitoring foreign communications and a US citizens calls that foreign person, guess what happens? Even though the US Citizens was not targeted that conversation gets recorded.

The fact that stuff like this is showing up is simply more evidence that Trump and Company are clueless when it comes to governing.

Edited by jar, : see AbE:


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Percy
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Posts: 16339
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


(2)
Message 400 of 1568 (799843)
02-16-2017 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 394 by Percy
02-16-2017 2:00 PM


Re: Trump Press Conference: Surreal
Headlines from the Trump news conference:

The headlines say it all, there's no need to read the articles. As one of the headlines says, this was a presidential press conference for the ages, one like none before. I watched a great deal of it. Trump rarely answered questions, diverging constantly to either deflect criticism or defend his administration in vague and hyperbolic terms. I wish I could comment on the specifics of his comments, but Trump provided no specifics. In a turn of phrase reminiscent of Nixon's "I'm not a crook," Trump did say, "I'm really not a bad person."

The press conference makes starkly clear what was already obvious from this administration's short time in office and from the campaign, that Trump is ill-informed, ill-advised and ill-prepared to govern.

--Percy


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Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 16339
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 401 of 1568 (799844)
02-16-2017 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 400 by Percy
02-16-2017 5:47 PM


Re: Trump Press Conference: Surreal
The New York Times listed Trump falsehoods from today's press conference: Trump Calls Press ‘Dishonest,’ Then Utters Falsehoods of His Own. Here they are:

  • "It was the biggest Electoral College win since Ronald Reagan."

    Since the Reagan landslide of 1980, Trump's victory was the 2nd smallest. The smallest was Bush in 2000.

  • "That circuit is in chaos and that circuit is frankly in turmoil."

    Trump was talking about the Ninth Circuit that upheld a temporary restraining order on his immigration ban, and he went on to describe their reversal rate as 80%. That's highly misleading because while the number is correct it's not in context. Only a tiny, tiny percentage of this court's rulings are reviewed by the Supreme Court. Of those 80% are reversed, but that's only a little more than the average of 70% across all the circuit courts. The Supreme Court tends to accept for review those cases that have a likelihood of being reversed. There's little point in reviewing a case just to confirm the lower court ruling.

  • "Our administration inherited many problems across government and across the economy. To be honest, I inherited a mess."

    Neither the government or the economy was in a mess when Trump took office. One could argue that now that Trump is in office that the government is in a mess, but the economy continues to roll along.

  • "But a new Rasmussen poll just came out just a very short while ago, and it has our approval rating at 55 percent and going up."

    This poll, which I'd never heard of until today, is an outlier. Trump's approval rating averaged across a number of polls is around 45%, the lowest of any modern president at this stage of his presidency.

--Percy


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JonF
Member
Posts: 4001
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 402 of 1568 (799845)
02-16-2017 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 401 by Percy
02-16-2017 6:10 PM


Re: Trump Press Conference: Surreal
Rasmussen is always an outlier... in one particular direction.
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NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10126
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 403 of 1568 (799846)
02-16-2017 6:56 PM


Trump's Press Conference.
I was traveling between job sites this afternoon and I listened to much of the press conference while in my car. Between Trump's lies, and his use of unfettered superlatives while talking about himself and his administration, I found the entire press conference difficult to fathom.

I would sincerely like to hear from the more conservative posters about what I missed and what they perceived differently that I did. I understand that conservatives would find Trump's calling out of the media more believable that I. What else?

Trump's explanation of the resignation of Flynn was a complete joke.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10240
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


(1)
Message 404 of 1568 (799848)
02-16-2017 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 399 by jar
02-16-2017 4:36 PM


Re: Trump Press Conference: Surreal
Washington Post writes:

Trump attacked the news media again, railing that “the fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred.” He also blasted the intelligence services, claiming that they are “illegally” giving information to the media, which, he opined, is “just like Russia.” This has become a pattern, in which Trump deals with setbacks by lashing out at other institutions, including ones that can function as a check on his power. When the courts blocked his immigration ban, he blasted both the courts and the news media for making us less safe, in what seemed to be designed to lay the groundwork to blame them for a future terrorist attack, a move that even some Republicans criticized for its authoritarian tendencies. This appeared to be a test run of sorts, in which Trump was experimenting with how far he could go in delegitimizing the institutions that might act as a check on his power later.

How authoritarian is Donald Trump?

How far will he go before his own party attempts to check him?

Is he a dangerous leader for America at this time in history?

When will the angry people who elected him get a clue that it is them and not others who are the problem?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

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ThinAirDesigns
Member
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 405 of 1568 (799852)
02-16-2017 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 400 by Percy
02-16-2017 5:47 PM


Re: Trump Press Conference: Surreal
And Trump voters loved it.

http://www.cnn.com/...ud-press-conference-mcenany/index.html


This message is a reply to:
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