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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
marc9000
Member
Posts: 839
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 691 of 766 (803628)
04-02-2017 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 683 by Percy
04-02-2017 8:10 AM


Re: Reality
The real question is since little he says can be trusted (it's mostly just non-specific boasting and "selling glitter") how would anyone know what they were getting when they voted for him. I mean, besides the boasting and preening.

I knew a lot about what we would be getting - competent people appointed to his cabinet, the removal and lessening of job killing regulations, less business destroying regulations from the EPA, the list is actually pretty long. Are you not satisfied that all of it isn't perfectly in place yet? After only 10 weeks? I'm confident that it will happen, and I think you might be too. That's why you're so angry.

The increase in size of government that people are so worried about didn't happen - there was no call to put a madman in charge.

The national debt increased by $9 trillion during Obama's administration. That's what I call madness.

Edited by marc9000, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 683 by Percy, posted 04-02-2017 8:10 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 698 by Percy, posted 04-03-2017 8:17 AM marc9000 has responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 839
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 692 of 766 (803629)
04-02-2017 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 684 by Percy
04-02-2017 8:34 AM


Re: Trump Approval Rating
All of it true and caused by his own incompetence. The press didn't force Trump to make absurd claims about inauguration crowd sizes or voting by illegals or wiretapping by the Obama administration. The press didn't force Trump to insult allies and trading partners. The press didn't force Trump to fail to develop a healthcare plan before claiming he had a healthcare plan. Etc., etc. Trump was the force behind all the negative press.

When the press reported on the Trump / Republican health plan, how did the opening headline almost always read - "24 MILLION AMERICANS SET TO LOSE HEALTH COVERAGE UNDER THE TRUMP PLAN". Yet in the mid 1990's, did the reports on Clinton's welfare reform read - MILLIONS OF AMERICANS SET TO LOSE THEIR SAFETY NET UNDER CLINTON'S WELFARE REFORM". It wasn't reported that way for a Democrat, was it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 684 by Percy, posted 04-02-2017 8:34 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 694 by NoNukes, posted 04-02-2017 8:37 PM marc9000 has responded
 Message 699 by Percy, posted 04-03-2017 8:27 AM marc9000 has acknowledged this reply

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 839
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 693 of 766 (803630)
04-02-2017 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 685 by Tangle
04-02-2017 8:49 AM


Re: Reality
In the UK's NHS, Accidents and Emergencies (A&E) are dealt with immediately. Some other stuff is dealt with within days or weeks. There are targets for various types of operations - the maximum wait time for non-emergency operations is 18 weeks. (Though this target is permanently under severe pressure.)

What are some symptoms of that pressure? Overworked, unhappy doctors?

The rest of the developed world looks on in amazementat why you guys think it ok to pay massively more for an inefficient and unfair system.

The rest of the world probably has little appreciation for so much of the technology their country has because of the innovation the U.S. has provided for them, innovation that wouldn't have happened under a socialized U.S. system.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 685 by Tangle, posted 04-02-2017 8:49 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9456
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 694 of 766 (803631)
04-02-2017 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 692 by marc9000
04-02-2017 8:29 PM


Re: Trump Approval Rating
Yet in the mid 1990's, did the reports on Clinton's welfare reform read - MILLIONS OF AMERICANS SET TO LOSE THEIR SAFETY NET UNDER CLINTON'S WELFARE REFORM"

This is a favored tactic of yours; asking questions based entirely on your flagging memory alone. Do you actually know whether there were unfavorable headlines in the 1990s, or are you relying on that same set of recollections that could not recall any activity on gun control in the sixties?

I have certainly seen more recent articles proclaiming Clinton's reforms a disaster at the time Obama was doing away with some of them. Who wrote those?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 692 by marc9000, posted 04-02-2017 8:29 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 695 by marc9000, posted 04-02-2017 8:52 PM NoNukes has responded

    
marc9000
Member
Posts: 839
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 695 of 766 (803632)
04-02-2017 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 694 by NoNukes
04-02-2017 8:37 PM


Re: Trump Approval Rating
This is a favored tactic of yours; asking questions based entirely on your flagging memory alone. Do you actually know whether there were unfavorable headlines in the 1990s,

I know that Clinton wasn't hated by the press with anywhere near the intensity that Trump is today.

or are you relying on that same set of recollections that could not recall any activity on gun control in the sixties?

And this is a favored tactic of yours, trying to draw a lone poster facing a gang to go off topic. There really was very little gun control in the 1960's. See, you succeeded!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 694 by NoNukes, posted 04-02-2017 8:37 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 696 by NoNukes, posted 04-02-2017 8:59 PM marc9000 has responded
 Message 697 by jar, posted 04-02-2017 9:11 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9456
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 696 of 766 (803633)
04-02-2017 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 695 by marc9000
04-02-2017 8:52 PM


Re: Trump Approval Rating
know that Clinton wasn't hated by the press with anywhere near the intensity that Trump is today.

The question under discussion must include whether Trump has brought at least some of that negative treatment on himself. But stop ducking the question. Where is your evidence regarding the lack of articles criticizing Clinton's welfare reforms?

And this is a favored tactic of yours, trying to draw a lone poster facing a gang to go off topic. There really was very little gun control in the 1960's. See, you succeeded!

If you'd like me to pull up your actual claim regarding not remember significant debates about gun control or the passage of legislation, I will be happy to do so. In fact, if you'd like me to point out other times you've used this same tactic, of making up crap, including in this very thread, I'd be happy to do that too.

If you've got a point, back it up with some evidence. I don't think you have anything. But I am curious about how you are going to back up a posting of a negative claim.

ABE:

I want to clearly express my objection. Saying, "I don't remember X", does not establish that X does not happen. And more often than not, folks here respond with evidence of X. You do this so frequently that nobody here should rely on what you remember. I've pointed this out to you on several occasions, but you continue to use the same tactic again and again. Folks have caught you doing this in this very thread, and invariably, you don't back your memory claims up with evidence.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : Add explanation.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 695 by marc9000, posted 04-02-2017 8:52 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 701 by marc9000, posted 04-03-2017 7:59 PM NoNukes has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 28694
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(5)
Message 697 of 766 (803634)
04-02-2017 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 695 by marc9000
04-02-2017 8:52 PM


Re: Trump Approval Rating
marc writes:

I know that Clinton wasn't hated by the press with anywhere near the intensity that Trump is today.

Are you nuts? Trump is not hated by the press, he is amazing. No president in recent memory, certainly since Richard Nixon has provided as much copy, committed as many blunders, made so many idiotic statements as Donald Trump. Why the press and comedians owe Trump a lot. He almost writes their material.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 695 by marc9000, posted 04-02-2017 8:52 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 15563
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.6


(2)
Message 698 of 766 (803659)
04-03-2017 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 691 by marc9000
04-02-2017 8:16 PM


Re: Reality
marc9000 writes:

I knew a lot about what we would be getting - competent people appointed to his cabinet,...

You mean like Rick Perry for Energy, Betsy DeVos for Education and Scott Pruitt for the EPA?

...the removal and lessening of job killing regulations,...

With unemployment at 4.9% we're already at full employment. Increased employment from here would cause inflation.

...less business destroying regulations from the EPA,...

We're going to live with the consequences of reduced attention to the environment for a long, long time.

Are you not satisfied that all of it isn't perfectly in place yet?

The longer it takes to get in place the better. What is strange is how Trump supporters seem blissfully unaware of the Trump lying and incompetence factor. He has policies he'd like to put in place that I'm in favor of too, such as a reduction of the corporate income tax, removal of tax loopholes (the big one is a tax break for fat cats that allows them to have interest taxed at long term capital gains rates), and tax reform. The border tax seems like a good idea, too, though I need to understand it better.

But the fact that Trump supports some policies I favor doesn't blind me to the glaring lying and incompetence displayed in his first hundred days, and I don't understand why Trump supporters don't see it.

That's why you're so angry.

Not angry - aghast, disturbed, concerned.

The national debt increased by $9 trillion during Obama's administration. That's what I call madness.

But it wasn't because of spending. It was because of the most severe recession since the Great Depression. As a percent of GDP, the national debt rose rapidly during the recession, then leveled off.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 691 by marc9000, posted 04-02-2017 8:16 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 702 by marc9000, posted 04-03-2017 8:34 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 15563
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 699 of 766 (803660)
04-03-2017 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 692 by marc9000
04-02-2017 8:29 PM


Re: Trump Approval Rating
marc9000 writes:

When the press reported on the Trump / Republican health plan, how did the opening headline almost always read - "24 MILLION AMERICANS SET TO LOSE HEALTH COVERAGE UNDER THE TRUMP PLAN". Yet in the mid 1990's, did the reports on Clinton's welfare reform read - MILLIONS OF AMERICANS SET TO LOSE THEIR SAFETY NET UNDER CLINTON'S WELFARE REFORM". It wasn't reported that way for a Democrat, was it?

The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act of 1996 was a bipartisan effort. It was part of the Republican Contract with America and one of Clinton's campaign promises. Welfare and poverty rates both declined in the latter half of the 1990's, and the bill was deemed a success. Headlines like you suggest wouldn't reflect reality and hence never happened.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 692 by marc9000, posted 04-02-2017 8:29 PM marc9000 has acknowledged this reply

    
marc9000
Member
Posts: 839
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 700 of 766 (803708)
04-03-2017 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 686 by Theodoric
04-02-2017 9:40 AM


Re: Reality
Not sure what your point is. Hamilton is third on the list. What am I missing?

That was my mistake, I mis-read what his point was. I quickly (too quickly) thought it was a downplaying of Hamilton's significance, it was actually a trumping up (pardon the expression) of Hamilton's significance. Enough said, further addressing it drifts off topic.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 686 by Theodoric, posted 04-02-2017 9:40 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 839
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 701 of 766 (803709)
04-03-2017 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 696 by NoNukes
04-02-2017 8:59 PM


Re: Trump Approval Rating
The question under discussion must include whether Trump has brought at least some of that negative treatment on himself.

He has, but most all of it is because of his more traditional views of how the U.S. should be governed. His views of it from a business perspective, not a self-serving politicians perspective. You know, the things he was elected to do. Most of the bluster against him is about him personally - lame attempts to distract from the lack of political arguments the left is able to make.

But stop ducking the question. Where is your evidence regarding the lack of articles criticizing Clinton's welfare reforms?

My claims in that regard are only to inspire anyone reading to think about their own experiences with what they witnessed in the differences in the reporting on the Clinton presidency versus the Trump presidency. If someone doesn't see any differences, it's almost certain that; 1) They're 20 years old or younger and haven't been around much, or;2) they're hopelessly blinded by a liberal point of view. In either case, my providing any evidence is going to be an exercise in futility. I might consider doing it if I got paid a few hundred dollars an hour to post here. Maybe you could recruit a collection service here for that purpose?

If you'd like me to pull up your actual claim regarding not remember significant debates about gun control or the passage of legislation, I will be happy to do so.

Again, I was just inspiring readers to think. We had the same second amendment in the 1960's as we did in the 80's, when we got the "Brady Bill". Was there a "Kennedy Bill" in the 1960's? If I have to provide evidence that gun control proposals in the 60's were far less than they were in the following decades, it's not going to make any difference to those closed-minded people who are bent on denying the obvious.

If you've got a point, back it up with some evidence. I don't think you have anything. But I am curious about how you are going to back up a posting of a negative claim.

I'm not going to worry about your demands. Liberals here don't provide any more evidence than I do, except in a few slight ways because they work in such huge gangs.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 696 by NoNukes, posted 04-02-2017 8:59 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 703 by Minnemooseus, posted 04-03-2017 8:41 PM marc9000 has not yet responded
 Message 704 by NoNukes, posted 04-04-2017 1:44 AM marc9000 has not yet responded
 Message 705 by Percy, posted 04-04-2017 7:41 AM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 839
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 702 of 766 (803710)
04-03-2017 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 698 by Percy
04-03-2017 8:17 AM


Re: Reality
You mean like Rick Perry for Energy, Betsy DeVos for Education and Scott Pruitt for the EPA?

Scott Pruitt!!! Oh I could go gay for that guy! Just think, now all the millions of people in the U.S. (myself included) who depend on older trucks to make a living don't have to worry about losing their livelihoods to a brand new, knee jerk global warming regulation that would require expensive retro-fits for their trucks, or a complete replacement of them. That's only one example of many, of those who still have an appreciation for liberty.

With unemployment at 4.9% we're already at full employment. Increased employment from here would cause inflation.

There's always room for new business start ups, in a society that anywhere near resembles what its founders had in mind for it.

Not angry - aghast, disturbed, concerned.

What I see in your posts, and all around the mainstream media, is an increasing animosity towards Trump, and I don't remember ever seeing it before. In past elections where a large part of the population was unhappy with the results, like Bush's win in 2000, or Obama's win in 08, people seemed to grudgingly accept the election results to a degree, and move on, to at least discussing the issues. Not with Trump - the LA Times just yesterday "declared war on Trump".

http://occupydemocrats.com/...t-declared-war-president-trump

I guess no one told them that the NY Times and Washington Post declared war on him over a year ago. But really, Trump hasn't changed since his campaign. If he's so incompetent, so low in the polls etc. why is the left so agitated? Wouldn't it be healthier for their blood pressure to wait for the 2018 mid-terms, or better yet, wait for an opportunity to impeach?

The problem is two-fold, 1) The respect from the left for the election process in the U.S. is now at an all time low, the anger against Trump is actually an anger with the people who voted for him, they have no respect for it. But the second part (2) could very well be the recent breaking news about the Obama administrations electronic surveillance of Trump's staff during the campaign.

https://www.conservativereview.com/...ts-of-trump-associates

quote:
Her efforts may draw parallels to former President Nixon’s efforts to spy on his political opponents. Following Nixon’s resignation, the intelligence community was reformed via the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, with the hopes of imposing accountability measures for federal officials that spy on political opponents.

Not a word about it this evening on ABC WORLD NEWS TONIGHT WITH DAVID MUIR. Imagine that! Also;

http://www.foxnews.com/...s-is-very-high-up-source-says.html

quote:
The White House, meanwhile, is urging Nunes and his colleagues to keep pursuing what improper surveillance and leaks may have occurred before Trump took office. They’ve been emboldened in the wake of March 2 comments from former Obama administration official Evelyn Farkas, who on MSNBC suggested her former colleagues tried to gather material on Trump team contacts with Russia.

White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer said Friday her comments and other reports raise “serious” concerns about whether there was an “organized and widespread effort by the Obama administration to use and leak highly sensitive intelligence information for political purposes.”

“Dr. Farkas’ admissions alone are devastating,” he said.


In other news, I saw on the local ABC report tonight that Trump met with the Egyptian leader today, something they said Obama refused to do during his administration, because Obama deemed him a dictator. Earlier today on the radio, it was said that the Egyptian leader said he looked forward to working with Trump and his "unique" personality. I'm not going to provide NoNukes with evidence for this however. Even without evidence, it's going to soon become clear to everyone, whether they like it or not, that all this bluster about Trump alienating the U.S. from its allies is pure BS.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 698 by Percy, posted 04-03-2017 8:17 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 706 by Percy, posted 04-04-2017 8:09 AM marc9000 has responded

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3488
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 703 of 766 (803711)
04-03-2017 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 701 by marc9000
04-03-2017 7:59 PM


The Trump model?
He has, but most all of it is because of his more traditional views of how the U.S. should be governed. His views of it from a business perspective, not a self-serving politicians perspective.

quote:
“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power” ― Benito Mussolini

quote:
“The definition of fascism is The marriage of corporation and state.” ― Benito Mussolini

Source

Government of the corporation, by the corporation, for the corporation.

Now, I have my suspicions that the above are paraphrases and/or extractions from a larger context. I would not go so far as to call them quote minings.

Moose


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 701 by marc9000, posted 04-03-2017 7:59 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9456
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 704 of 766 (803722)
04-04-2017 1:44 AM
Reply to: Message 701 by marc9000
04-03-2017 7:59 PM


Re: Trump Approval Rating
NoNukes writes:

If you've got a point, back it up with some evidence.


I'm not going to worry about your demands

That's what I thought. Thanks.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 701 by marc9000, posted 04-03-2017 7:59 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 15563
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.6


(4)
Message 705 of 766 (803736)
04-04-2017 7:41 AM
Reply to: Message 701 by marc9000
04-03-2017 7:59 PM


Re: Trump Approval Rating
marc9000 writes:

He has, but most all of it is because of his more traditional views of how the U.S. should be governed. His views of it from a business perspective, not a self-serving politicians perspective.

Trump is running government from a self-serving business perspective. He has failed to disclose his tax returns, refused to divest himself of his businesses, and filled his administration with like-minded cronies.

You know, the things he was elected to do.

But he's not doing the things he was elected to do - he's doing the opposite. He ran as a populist, and now he's pursuing policies that run counter to the interests of the people who elected him by paring back programs for those in need (see, for example, In Ohio County That Backed Trump, Word of Housing Cuts Stirs Fear). Trump is a typical trickle-down Republican: help the rich and it will trickle down to the poor.

In either case, my providing any evidence is going to be an exercise in futility.

Your dilemma is that it isn't possible to provide evidence for things that never happened.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 701 by marc9000, posted 04-03-2017 7:59 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

    
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