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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9648
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


(2)
Message 721 of 896 (804059)
04-06-2017 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 720 by Percy
04-06-2017 9:10 AM


Re: Reality
You sound like a one-man environmental wrecking crew. Insulate your house, get an efficient furnace, get a newer truck, save money on fuel, and reduce your pollution of the air we all breath.

Marc9000 thinks that having leaky windows, a bad furnace, and a polluting truck constitutes freedom.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 720 by Percy, posted 04-06-2017 9:10 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 726 by marc9000, posted 04-07-2017 5:48 PM NoNukes has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15934
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 722 of 896 (804078)
04-06-2017 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 549 by petrophysics1
03-04-2017 8:16 PM


Re: This is great.
Trump is great he is doing everything he said he would.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 549 by petrophysics1, posted 03-04-2017 8:16 PM petrophysics1 has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15934
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 723 of 896 (804131)
04-07-2017 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 549 by petrophysics1
03-04-2017 8:16 PM


Re: This is great.
Trump is great he is doing everything he said he would.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 549 by petrophysics1, posted 03-04-2017 8:16 PM petrophysics1 has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15934
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 724 of 896 (804136)
04-07-2017 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 549 by petrophysics1
03-04-2017 8:16 PM


Re: This is great.
Trump is great he is doing everything he said he would.

45 times Trump said we shouldn't attack Syria.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 549 by petrophysics1, posted 03-04-2017 8:16 PM petrophysics1 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 725 by marc9000, posted 04-07-2017 5:39 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 862
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 725 of 896 (804171)
04-07-2017 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 724 by Dr Adequate
04-07-2017 10:26 AM


Re: This is great.
https://www.usnews.com/...ack-changes-donald-trump-worldview

quote:
...in reality, a foreign policy transformation based on roiling real-time events wouldn't be anything new for a U.S. President. Trump would, in fact, fall in a long line of chief executives who've drastically altered their worldviews once saddled by the weight of the office and the consequences of inaction.

It happens fairly often. Take the last two presidents.


Am I allowed to break forum rule #5, since the Dr. is making such a major habit of it in this thread?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 724 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-07-2017 10:26 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 728 by PaulK, posted 04-08-2017 1:02 AM marc9000 has responded
 Message 732 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-08-2017 11:56 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 862
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 726 of 896 (804172)
04-07-2017 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 721 by NoNukes
04-06-2017 6:03 PM


Re: Reality
Marc9000 thinks that having leaky windows, a bad furnace, and a polluting truck constitutes freedom.

NoNukes thinks that leaky windows, a bad furnace, and a polluting truck are the government's business, or any liberal busybody's business, according to the Constitution. (I do have a 3 year old, high efficiency propane furnace that I paid for with my own money. I plead guilty as sin on the other two though.)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 721 by NoNukes, posted 04-06-2017 6:03 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 727 by NoNukes, posted 04-07-2017 8:29 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9648
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


(5)
Message 727 of 896 (804196)
04-07-2017 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 726 by marc9000
04-07-2017 5:48 PM


Re: Reality
NoNukes thinks that leaky windows, a bad furnace, and a polluting truck are the government's business

If I have to breathe the junk put in the air by your polluting truck, then it is my business as well as that of the rest of the folks in my situation. So yeah it is an appropriate government matter.

With regard to those other things, I have no problem with the government providing incentives for you to fix those things. Leaving them as they are is just plain idiocy on your part.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 726 by marc9000, posted 04-07-2017 5:48 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12759
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 728 of 896 (804225)
04-08-2017 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 725 by marc9000
04-07-2017 5:39 PM


Re: This is great.
Two points.

First, the fact that other presidents have changed their minds hardly proves that Trumo has not. If someone is claiming that Trump is doing everything he said he would do, providing counterexamples is a valid point.

Second this is not a dramatic change in Syria. The Assad regime has used poison gas before, in the early years of this conflict. The situation is not that different - but Trump's position has changed quite significantly.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 725 by marc9000, posted 04-07-2017 5:39 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 729 by marc9000, posted 04-08-2017 8:24 PM PaulK has responded

    
marc9000
Member
Posts: 862
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 729 of 896 (804369)
04-08-2017 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 728 by PaulK
04-08-2017 1:02 AM


Re: This is great.
First, the fact that other presidents have changed their minds hardly proves that Trumo has not. If someone is claiming that Trump is doing everything he said he would do, providing counterexamples is a valid point.

That's true, but the counterexamples are weak if all someone wants to do is post links and then run without showing interest in discussing them in his own words.

Trump is guilty of being too impetuous in saying what he's thinking too quickly, but I don't think it's all that harmful. Showing that past presidents have done it too re-enforces that. I think he's proven that he thinks things through before he acts. Now as president, and earlier, in business.

Trump is less likely than past presidents to change his mind when confronted with a briefcase full of cash from a special interest. I wouldn't want to be a special interest representative to attempt to do that with him.

Second this is not a dramatic change in Syria. The Assad regime has used poison gas before, in the early years of this conflict. The situation is not that different - but Trump's position has changed quite significantly.

Fox News this morning was showing videos of Susan Rice, John Kerry, and Obama himself, (not too long ago), all claiming that Syria had absolutely no chemical weapons. It could have largely been those proclamations that caused Trump to make his earlier claims. This is one position change of his that is completely understandable.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 728 by PaulK, posted 04-08-2017 1:02 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 730 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-08-2017 9:16 PM marc9000 has not yet responded
 Message 731 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-08-2017 10:48 PM marc9000 has responded
 Message 733 by NoNukes, posted 04-09-2017 1:18 AM marc9000 has responded
 Message 734 by PaulK, posted 04-09-2017 1:51 AM marc9000 has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 829
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 730 of 896 (804375)
04-08-2017 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 729 by marc9000
04-08-2017 8:24 PM


Trump and special interests. Nice if he would stand against them for once.
So why does he not allow agricultural imports (absent the trade barriers which render importing to be expensive) which would lower our food bill to the amount totaling $1000 per American per year?

The answer is the big corperations that want to make $100 billion dollars per year and will demolish those who put the American people first.

Trump could easily tell Americans that only 0.1 will be added to unemployment if all agricultural jobs are lost at once and not replaced by the net economic growth from much cheaper food for all.

Mr. Business Man could actually make a good macro economic case and he could have enough internal American datums to demonstrate the net benefit of a bold reform.

He doesn't even have to mention the trade concessions we can gain from other countries in return for tearing down barriers for allowing their goods to be freely sold to us.

He doesn't need to tell Americans that the world wide macroeconomic benefits would have a very virtuous cycle spinning at hurricane like velocity - being the American First nationalist he fancies himself.

I accept the fact that "special interests " to Trump are simply NIH grantees (who won't get many grants after his 20% cut to a program's budget that has already suffered real cuts of 25% in the last 14 years ) and kissing up to insurance companies by slashing pharmaceutical drug profits down to ruinously low levels while (falsely) claiming to be standing for lower healthcare prices.

This is the most anti-science president in America history.

He is right about one thing. We all are appearing to be the big losers


This message is a reply to:
 Message 729 by marc9000, posted 04-08-2017 8:24 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 829
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 731 of 896 (804384)
04-08-2017 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 729 by marc9000
04-08-2017 8:24 PM


My source for my special interest accusation.
This is a serious charge so I owe a source to readers.

quote:

Divided Nations
By Ian Goldin
Page 124
It is important not to be naive about the interests of business. Indeed, in a number of cases, private sector interests may be directly opposed to a global solution. The lobbying power of US coal interests has been shown to be behind the erosion of public support for actions on climate change, just as that of the financial services industry was behind the drive for deregulation and resistance to constraints on their behavior. Similarly, in agriculture the lobbying power in the US and Europe of major producers of grains, sugar, and cotton is behind the economically disastrous and highly regressive protectionist policies.

The effectiveness of these lobby groups is testimony of the power of organized groups to effect and resist change. While less than 0.1 percent of the US or European population will benefit from agricultural protection, and citizens in the EU and US on average pay over 1,000 euros or dollars per year more than they should for food, the perverse subsidies are testimony to the power of lobbies to capture national politics and subvert global agreement.


(note in back references Globalization for Development : Meeting New Challenges which was 2012 Cambridge University Press book by Goldin and Reinert )

I was recently reading about the drop in agriculture profits and how subsidies of a few extra billion dollars to pay farmers not to plant food can drive profits up $100 billion per year. That was about the difference between 2014 and 2015 I think. Artificial scarcity and it is on all our backs.

Japan has suffered from much higher prices due to protectionism in "five sacred areas of agriculture " but so few people farm anymore there that the average farmer is like 77 year's old. Old time farmers are all that is left so the tiny aging constituency has been seen by analysts to lack most of the political muscle to stop radical trade reforms which will benefit Japan as a whole.

One day, the truth will be known by all and the obvious policy solution will be correctly seen as much more free trade in every genuine sense of the words FREE and OPEN.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 729 by marc9000, posted 04-08-2017 8:24 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 737 by marc9000, posted 04-09-2017 1:36 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15934
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 732 of 896 (804385)
04-08-2017 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 725 by marc9000
04-07-2017 5:39 PM


Re: This is great.
Am I allowed to break forum rule #5, since the Dr. is making such a major habit of it in this thread?

I have not yet figured out a way to quote Trump in my own words, what with that being a contradiction in terms.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 725 by marc9000, posted 04-07-2017 5:39 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9648
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 733 of 896 (804393)
04-09-2017 1:18 AM
Reply to: Message 729 by marc9000
04-08-2017 8:24 PM


Re: This is great.
Trump is guilty of being too impetuous in saying what he's thinking too quickly, but I don't think it's all that harmful.

Do you think that covers things like promising health care that give better coverage and be cheaper than the ACA was just impetuous? Do you know even now what Trump was thinking when he said that?

Trump is less likely than past presidents to change his mind when confronted with a briefcase full of cash from a special interest.

How in the world could anyone know that?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 729 by marc9000, posted 04-08-2017 8:24 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 735 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-09-2017 2:36 AM NoNukes has responded
 Message 738 by marc9000, posted 04-09-2017 1:43 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12759
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 734 of 896 (804396)
04-09-2017 1:51 AM
Reply to: Message 729 by marc9000
04-08-2017 8:24 PM


Re: This is great.
quote:

That's true, but the counterexamples are weak if all someone wants to do is post links and then run without showing interest in discussing them in his own words.

Because proof is "weak" ? That really doesn't make sense.

quote:

Trump is guilty of being too impetuous in saying what he's thinking too quickly, but I don't think it's all that harmful.

I don't think that ordering a bombing raid could be considered harmless.

quote:

Trump is less likely than past presidents to change his mind when confronted with a briefcase full of cash from a special interest.

Since we don't know the state of his finances it's hard to be certain of that.

quote:

Fox News this morning was showing videos of Susan Rice, John Kerry, and Obama himself, (not too long ago), all claiming that Syria had absolutely no chemical weapons.

Were those before or after Syria started using gas on the rebels ?

quote:

It could have largely been those proclamations that caused Trump to make his earlier claims

It seems to me that the earlier gas attacks should have caused a change of position. Apparently they did not.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 729 by marc9000, posted 04-08-2017 8:24 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 740 by marc9000, posted 04-09-2017 1:55 PM PaulK has responded

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 829
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 735 of 896 (804398)
04-09-2017 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 733 by NoNukes
04-09-2017 1:18 AM


NoNukes got this one this time when he indicated our general inabilities to detect st
Back in the late 1990s, Senator Phil Gram was voted the smartest man in the Senate by the broad body of the Washington press and the Texas economic PhD was considered someone who was just so knowledgeable about arcane and complex financial issues that Washington D. C. as a whole simply took his word for it when he preached endlessly about the future economic miracle that deregulation would work.

The economist Senator was an opinionated and doctrinaire conservative but he sounded like his mind was technically inclined enough on the letter of the law and its real world consequences for the (real and sustained - SUSTAINED! ) growth of our economy and fundamental financial health. He was handed the keys to far reaching deregulation and he gladly took control of the wheels, with his colleagues supporting his legislation and the enactment was done with hardly a clue of any hints of a hitch.

It turned out that the next decade had just about no real growth once the collapse was completed by mid 2009. The only thing to show for the aughts ( 2000-9) was an essentially permanent $500 billion per year tax cut and (again ) an essentially permanent increase in military and security spending of about $500 billion a year.

Back in 2001 Senator Gram pushed through the Bush tax cuts saying that the budget "surplus" was so big that the debt holders would have to be paid big penalties for the government buying back their treasury bonds before they mature so "the only thing that we can do is use the surplus money to give out giant tax cuts now and not worry about paying off the national debt " (roughly what he said ). Even if the nation didn't actually (even! ) fail to achieve a balance that year, much less see the big "surplus" materialize, he was genuinely full of crap - the bonds were capable of being paid off with either a relatively small penalty or with no penalties at all (investors could agree to waive penalties for cashing in the bill early ).

The phantom growth of the first decade of the 21st century was the best mirage the military industrial complex was able to get the American people to follow insearch of whatever they were told they were going to need to swallow. They are still drinking all the imaginary and (perhaps? ) real Cool Aid and the catch is they don't even have a clue - they NEVER do!

Meanwhile, $15 trillion of debt later...

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 733 by NoNukes, posted 04-09-2017 1:18 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 736 by NoNukes, posted 04-09-2017 11:58 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

    
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