Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 108 (8801 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 11-17-2017 12:13 PM
338 online now:
DrJones*, frako, kjsimons, ooh-child, PaulK, Phat (AdminPhat), ringo, Tangle, Taq (9 members, 329 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: jaufre
Post Volume:
Total: 822,555 Year: 27,161/21,208 Month: 1,074/1,714 Week: 282/525 Day: 24/66 Hour: 0/6

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
5354
55
5657
...
100NextFF
Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 973
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 811 of 1491 (808888)
05-14-2017 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 800 by Taq
05-12-2017 1:22 PM


My reference to Haldeman was indeed timely.
I was wondering what his book was called, and mother of all coincidences, his book was recommended on the final page of the May 14, 2017 book review magazine of the Nyt .

Page 39 is Bookends, "What book would you recommend for America's current political moment? "

The first of 2 recommended older books , with the half page review, was Dark Money (by Jane Mayer ) recommended by Francine Prose.

The second and final recommended book was a recommendation by Thomas Mallon. The title was "There are flashes of recognition in H. R. Haldeman's chronicle of Richard Nixon's presidency. "

quote:

P 39

TRUMP-NIXON COMPARISONS are in vogue, and any consideration of them requires "The Haldeman Diaries," the indispensable narrative that Richard Nixon''s chief of staff, Harry Robbins (H. R. ) Haldeman, began keeping on Jan. 18, 1969, two days before the start of a presidency distinguished by bold foreign overtures : beset by Vietnam and domestic dissent : and destroyed, finally, by Watergate. Haldeman switched from handwriting the diaries to taping them late in 1970, only months before the White House, interested in better record-keeping, began tapping itself.


A review of A Man and His Presidents by Felzenberg ( on William F Buckley ) was a combo front page review story (with the Klein review of Buchanan book) under the title All The Right Moves.

The front page reviews were the start before each book got the review continued on an entire page (32 for Buchanan''s book and all of 33 for Felzenberg's book on Buckley )

The Buckley book review failed to make mention of the CIA operations of Buckley in 1952. ( no mention of the CIA in any reviews ).

Amazing since Buckley let it slip in 1973(?) that he was in the CIA, during a party. He said he was, barred by E Howard Hunt while in the agency, in a monumental slip during a casual conversation.

Had E Howard Hunt not been in the news as the lead Plumber arrested during Watergate, then Buckley might have gotten away with the slip, and his party chatting chaps might not have paid attention. But the fact that Hunt recruited him to do operations in Mexico became known. He said he left the CIA in 1952.

Hunt remained but said he left the CIA just before Watergate.

His son John Hunt taped his deathbed confession to the CIA involvement in the JFK assassination which he was a major operator in.

He said Watergate was a CIA operation.

To get JFK files.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 800 by Taq, posted 05-12-2017 1:22 PM Taq has not yet responded

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6397
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 812 of 1491 (809053)
05-15-2017 8:48 PM


Trump shares classified intel with Russians?
The Guardian reports that Trump shared highly classified intelligence with the Russians at that meeting last week.

"The report said that while Trump did not describe the specific source used to gather the intelligence, he provided highly classified details, apparently connected to an Isis plot related to the use of laptops on board passenger aircraft."

Without more details, it's difficult to know how serious a problem Trump may have created, so I agree with Senator McCain: "Senior Republican senator John McCain told CNN that 'if it's true, it’s obviously disturbing.' But he cautioned: 'Let's wait and see what this was all about first.'"

But I wonder: what do the Trumpistas think about this? This seems to be a bit more serious than Clinton's emails. Are they now going to start screaming, "LOCK HIM UP!"?


Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. – Billy Bragg

Replies to this message:
 Message 813 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-15-2017 9:28 PM Chiroptera has responded
 Message 814 by Huntard, posted 05-16-2017 5:09 AM Chiroptera has responded
 Message 815 by jar, posted 05-16-2017 6:58 AM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1589
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 813 of 1491 (809055)
05-15-2017 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 812 by Chiroptera
05-15-2017 8:48 PM


Re: Trump shares classified intel with Russians?
But I wonder: what do the Trumpistas think about this? This seems to be a bit more serious than Clinton's emails. Are they now going to start screaming, "LOCK HIM UP!"?

Of course not. He's the president so for HIM there is no such thing as "highly classified intelligence."


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 812 by Chiroptera, posted 05-15-2017 8:48 PM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 817 by Chiroptera, posted 05-16-2017 8:58 AM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

    
Huntard
Member
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 814 of 1491 (809061)
05-16-2017 5:09 AM
Reply to: Message 812 by Chiroptera
05-15-2017 8:48 PM


Re: Trump shares classified intel with Russians?
Chiroptera writes:

But I wonder: what do the Trumpistas think about this? This seems to be a bit more serious than Clinton's emails. Are they now going to start screaming, "LOCK HIM UP!"?


Well, when the President does it, that means it is not illegal.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 812 by Chiroptera, posted 05-15-2017 8:48 PM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 818 by Chiroptera, posted 05-16-2017 9:12 AM Huntard has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29601
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 815 of 1491 (809067)
05-16-2017 6:58 AM
Reply to: Message 812 by Chiroptera
05-15-2017 8:48 PM


Re: Trump shares classified intel with Russians?
But isn't Uncle Vladimir our ally just like Uncle Joe?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 812 by Chiroptera, posted 05-15-2017 8:48 PM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16143
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.8


(2)
Message 816 of 1491 (809074)
05-16-2017 8:05 AM


When does all the winning begin?
Inquiring minds want to know.

I thought I'd be posting more often to this thread, but the disappointments piled one upon another so rapidly that I couldn't keep up. It's a new screw up every day. The latest is that Trump Shared Classified Data With Russians. It just doesn't end. What we have is an incompetent and autocratic White House unfamiliar with handling the reins of government.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 819 by ringo, posted 05-16-2017 11:59 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 820 by Taq, posted 05-16-2017 3:56 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 821 by NoNukes, posted 05-16-2017 4:17 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6397
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


(2)
Message 817 of 1491 (809084)
05-16-2017 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 813 by Tanypteryx
05-15-2017 9:28 PM


Re: Trump shares classified intel with Russians?
He's the president so for HIM there is no such thing as "highly classified intelligence."

He's Trump so for him there's no such thing as intelligence.


Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. – Billy Bragg

This message is a reply to:
 Message 813 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-15-2017 9:28 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6397
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


(1)
Message 818 of 1491 (809085)
05-16-2017 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 814 by Huntard
05-16-2017 5:09 AM


Re: Trump shares classified intel with Russians?
Well, when the President does it, that means it is not illegal.

Same NYT article Percy linked to:

Mr. Trump’s disclosure does not appear to have been illegal — the president has the power to declassify almost anything.

'Course, that's "the power to declassify almost anything," not "blurt out anything you want to whoever you want when you feel like showing off." I would imagine that declassifying something requires a process; at a minimum, drawing up a legal document, signing it, and filing it with the appropriate agency. Something that requires a little bit of time and thought, giving the appropriate people a chance to weigh in on it.

But Trump isn't a Democrat and his name isn't Clinton, so I suppose it's all good.


Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. – Billy Bragg

This message is a reply to:
 Message 814 by Huntard, posted 05-16-2017 5:09 AM Huntard has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13863
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


(4)
Message 819 of 1491 (809138)
05-16-2017 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 816 by Percy
05-16-2017 8:05 AM


Re: When does all the winning begin?
Percy writes:

What we have is an incompetent and autocratic White House unfamiliar with handling the reins of government.


He was elected BECAUSE he was an outsider.

His campaign slogan might as well have been, "Let's hire a pilot who doesn't know how to fly the plane." And the American electorate chanted, "Good answer! Good answer!"


This message is a reply to:
 Message 816 by Percy, posted 05-16-2017 8:05 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 822 by Chiroptera, posted 05-16-2017 5:00 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7263
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 820 of 1491 (809170)
05-16-2017 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 816 by Percy
05-16-2017 8:05 AM


Re: When does all the winning begin?
Percy writes:

It just doesn't end. What we have is an incompetent and autocratic White House unfamiliar with handling the reins of government.

It is a bit self serving when the party full of the incompetents is the one who says to vote for them because the government is incompetent.

For example, they will run on the idea that government is incapable of handling healthcare, so you are better off on your own. To prove themselves right, they screw up healthcare.

Until people wake up and figure out that there is only one popular political party who is trying to do good by the American people, we will continue to see incompetence in government. Apparently, there are tons of conservatives who are willing to lose affordable access to healthcare just to have an orange man yell out "Radical Islamic Terrorism" at the local tractor pull.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 816 by Percy, posted 05-16-2017 8:05 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10056
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 821 of 1491 (809172)
05-16-2017 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 816 by Percy
05-16-2017 8:05 AM


Re: When does all the winning begin?
What we have is an incompetent and autocratic White House unfamiliar with handling the reins of government.

Trump is a narcissist and an idiot. He literally does not know any better, and his personality is such that he seems not be able to seek help. Further, he seems to have no sense of how unprepared he really is. Unfortunately, he's also, quite literally the most powerful man in the world.

So Trump cannot help but f' up. Mistakes like these and even larger ones are going to continue to happen. Those screw ups are funny when he is making mistakes involving things like civil war history or how many electoral votes he won last November. Heck, even this Russia screw up is a minor snafu.[1]

What is less excusable is how the senior members of his party cover for his screw ups. Those folks actually do know better. Not a one of them is exercising the least bit of leadership because apparently no amount of Trump screw ups alienate the base, and most Republicans are in gerrymandered seats and only fear to lose in a primary rather than an actual election. Trump's popularity is still around 40%, meaning that only independents and democratic voters are showing the slightest doubt about the man.

It just doesn't end.

No, it does not end. I expect things will get worse.

ABE:

[1] Maybe a bigger snafu than I was thinking. Apparently, the intelligence at issue is something that one of our allies shared with us. The info was not ours to share. Still seeing lots of denial from Republicans like McConnell and Hatch.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 816 by Percy, posted 05-16-2017 8:05 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 823 by Chiroptera, posted 05-16-2017 5:08 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply
 Message 824 by Taq, posted 05-16-2017 5:35 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6397
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 822 of 1491 (809173)
05-16-2017 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 819 by ringo
05-16-2017 11:59 AM


Re: When does all the winning begin?
And the American electorate chanted, "Good answer! Good answer!"

Well, only if the American electorate can be characterized by how less than even a plurality voted.

Added by edit: Nonetheless, good point. I might steal this.

Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given.


Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. – Billy Bragg

This message is a reply to:
 Message 819 by ringo, posted 05-16-2017 11:59 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6397
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 823 of 1491 (809175)
05-16-2017 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 821 by NoNukes
05-16-2017 4:17 PM


Re: When does all the winning begin?
Maybe a bigger snafu than I was thinking. Apparently, the intelligence at issue is something that one of our allies shared with us. The info was not ours to share.

Yeah, that's what makes this so serious. According to the news, this intel came from an important ally which didn't want us to share it; we hadn't even shared this info with our other, real allies.

Reports say that Trump may have given the Russians enough information to let them know who this source is and an estimate of their intelligence gathering activities.

There's the possibility that it will be more difficult for our intelligences services to get cooperation from other countries' intelligence services.

When I first read this, I just thought this would be a funny tweak against the "Lock her up" nuts. But this may actually be a very, very serious issue.


Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. – Billy Bragg

This message is a reply to:
 Message 821 by NoNukes, posted 05-16-2017 4:17 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7263
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 824 of 1491 (809183)
05-16-2017 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 821 by NoNukes
05-16-2017 4:17 PM


Re: When does all the winning begin?
NoNukes writes:

ABE:

[1] Maybe a bigger snafu than I was thinking. Apparently, the intelligence at issue is something that one of our allies shared with us. The info was not ours to share. Still seeing lots of denial from Republicans like McConnell and Hatch.

This also speaks to a much broader problem. Just a few months ago it was reported that US intelligence organizations were holding back information from Trump because they were afraid he would just blurt it out. It seems their fears were well founded.

We have a President who has so little self control that he will out important intelligence assets and partners just to brag to our enemies of how wonderful his briefings are. This was after Putin called Trump and asked him to meet with his foreign secretary and ambassador, about which Trump stated that he couldn't say no to Putin.

So we have a weak President who can't say no to Putin, and then blurts out random pieces of sensitive intelligence because he can't help himself. Buckle up folks, it's going to get bumpy.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 821 by NoNukes, posted 05-16-2017 4:17 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 973
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 825 of 1491 (809197)
05-16-2017 9:55 PM


This can't be good timing for Trump.
I got the feeling that Trump was considering an argument line that he, on behalf of the American people, would try hard to get his eyes on all the classified secrets of the CIA & FBI, even if they want to hide it from the people ( or those looking out for them, such as Trump himself ).

It looked like he was teasing the fired FBI director with the dreaded Trump Tapes.

Trump wire-taps the FBI and threatened to give it nightmares in its sleep with the bad dream of Trump arguing over classified material being kept from the people's representatives.

Perhaps next year.

This isn't the time it seems.

(BTW I just read in the New York Times that Roger Stone is a day-long guest host for Alex Jones every single week! The intelligence agencies clearly are crapping out their pie holes in constant fear of Trump. )


Replies to this message:
 Message 827 by 1.61803, posted 05-17-2017 9:59 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

    
RewPrev1
...
5354
55
5657
...
100NextFF
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017