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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6359
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 826 of 902 (809229)
05-17-2017 9:49 AM


What Republicans say: then and now
From this morning's New York Times about Trump 's intelligence gaffe:

In fact, many Republicans strenuously objected last year when the Obama administration proposed sharing limited intelligence about Syria with Russia.

One of the Republicans was Mike Pompeo, the former congressman from Kansas who now runs the C.I.A. In an appearance last year on a podcast hosted by Frank Gaffney, a former Reagan administration official now best known for his anti-Muslim views, Mr. Pompeo said sharing intelligence with the Russians was a “dumb idea.”

For those who want to keep score: which Republicans keep to a consistent message, and which ones will start the "yabbuts"?


Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. – Billy Bragg

Replies to this message:
 Message 829 by marc9000, posted 05-17-2017 5:28 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2689
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 827 of 902 (809230)
05-17-2017 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 825 by LamarkNewAge
05-16-2017 9:55 PM


Re: This can't be good timing for Trump.
Wait...Wut?

LamarNewAge writes:

I got the feeling that Trump was considering an argument line that he, on behalf of the American people, would try hard to get his eyes on all the classified secrets of the CIA & FBI, even if they want to hide it from the people ( or those looking out for them, such as Trump himself ).


Is that the talking points on Fox News at present?

LarmarkNewAge writes:

It looked like he was teasing the fired FBI director with the dreaded Trump Tapes


Oh, I though it was a threat. Silly me.

LarmarkNewAge writes:

Trump wire-taps the FBI and threatened to give it nightmares in its sleep with the bad dream of Trump arguing over classified material being kept from the people's representatives.

Trump may have taped a oval office conversation with Comey the previous FBI director but I doubt seriously he had the FBI bugged.

LarmarkNewAge writes:

The intelligence agencies clearly are crapping out their pie holes in constant fear of Trump. )


The intelligence agencies are most likely shoring up any residual damage that may have been caused. And as far as fear of Trump I think your right. A ignoramus with that much power is to be feared.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 825 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-16-2017 9:55 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 828 by jar, posted 05-17-2017 10:25 AM 1.61803 has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29040
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


(2)
Message 828 of 902 (809232)
05-17-2017 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 827 by 1.61803
05-17-2017 9:59 AM


Re: This can't be good timing for Trump.
Time for an entirely new and improved policy... "Don't ask and don't tell the President!"

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 827 by 1.61803, posted 05-17-2017 9:59 AM 1.61803 has acknowledged this reply

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 862
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 829 of 902 (809278)
05-17-2017 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 826 by Chiroptera
05-17-2017 9:49 AM


Re: What Republicans say: then and now
For those who want to keep score: which Republicans keep to a consistent message, and which ones will start the "yabbuts"?

Here are the two Washington Post headlines, for the same actions;

[June 30th, 2016, for Obama] "U.S. offers to share Syria intelligence on terrorists with Russia."

[May 15th, 2017, for Trump]"Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian diplomats."

A lot of people are keeping score of news media bias.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 826 by Chiroptera, posted 05-17-2017 9:49 AM Chiroptera has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 830 by Taq, posted 05-17-2017 5:50 PM marc9000 has not yet responded
 Message 835 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-17-2017 6:02 PM marc9000 has not yet responded
 Message 837 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-17-2017 6:11 PM marc9000 has not yet responded
 Message 838 by JonF, posted 05-17-2017 6:12 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 6644
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 830 of 902 (809281)
05-17-2017 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 829 by marc9000
05-17-2017 5:28 PM


Re: What Republicans say: then and now
marc9000 writes:

Here are the two Washington Post headlines, for the same actions;

[June 30th, 2016, for Obama] "U.S. offers to share Syria intelligence on terrorists with Russia."

[May 15th, 2017, for Trump]"Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian diplomats."

A lot of people are keeping score of news media bias.

What bias?

The information that Trump shared was not his to give. Israel gave us that information with the promise that we wouldn't tell other people. That's a much different situation than sharing information that we haven't promised to keep secret.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 829 by marc9000, posted 05-17-2017 5:28 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 831 by Diomedes, posted 05-17-2017 5:58 PM Taq has responded
 Message 832 by jar, posted 05-17-2017 5:59 PM Taq has responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 628
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 6.4


Message 831 of 902 (809284)
05-17-2017 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 830 by Taq
05-17-2017 5:50 PM


Re: What Republicans say: then and now
marc9000 writes:

Here are the two Washington Post headlines, for the same actions;

[June 30th, 2016, for Obama] "U.S. offers to share Syria intelligence on terrorists with Russia."

[May 15th, 2017, for Trump]"Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian diplomats."

A lot of people are keeping score of news media bias.

What bias?

The information that Trump shared was not his to give. Israel gave us that information with the promise that we wouldn't tell other people. That's a much different situation than sharing information that we haven't promised to keep secret.

And to follow-up on Taq's point: can Marc reference the articles from the Obama administration where he fired the head of the FBI that was leading an investigation against him?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 830 by Taq, posted 05-17-2017 5:50 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 833 by Taq, posted 05-17-2017 6:01 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29040
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 832 of 902 (809285)
05-17-2017 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 830 by Taq
05-17-2017 5:50 PM


Re: What Republicans say: then and now
You need to understand that what we see is simply a continuation of the Fundamentalist practice of Source over Content.

Their God says kill folk, that's fine.

Their God lies to Adam & Eve and it's just fine.

Their God changes Pharaoh's mind and then kills the innocent first born children for it, that's fine.

Their President shares information given with the condition it would not be shared, that's fine.

It's not a matter of what is done but rather who is doing it.

And there is an unlimited supply of Apologists to find excuses.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 830 by Taq, posted 05-17-2017 5:50 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 834 by Taq, posted 05-17-2017 6:02 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 6644
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 833 of 902 (809287)
05-17-2017 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 831 by Diomedes
05-17-2017 5:58 PM


Re: What Republicans say: then and now
Diomedes writes:

And to follow-up on Taq's point: can Marc reference the articles from the Obama administration where he fired the head of the FBI that was leading an investigation against him?

Could you imagine what would have happened if Obama fired the lead investigator for the Benghazi incident, went on TV and flat out said that he fired the investigator because he wanted the Benghazi investigation to wrap up, and then asked the FBI director to lay off the Hillary email investigation?

How many minutes would it take Republicans to vote for impeachment if those events took place?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 831 by Diomedes, posted 05-17-2017 5:58 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 6644
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 834 of 902 (809288)
05-17-2017 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 832 by jar
05-17-2017 5:59 PM


Re: What Republicans say: then and now
jar writes:

You need to understand that what we see is simply a continuation of the Fundamentalist practice of Source over Content.

Exactly. Anything Republicans do is considered just fine by other Republicans, no matter what it is. If a Democrat does the same things they scream to the high heavens.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 832 by jar, posted 05-17-2017 5:59 PM jar has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 836
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 835 of 902 (809289)
05-17-2017 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 829 by marc9000
05-17-2017 5:28 PM


Re: What Republicans say: then and now
Russia isn't allied to any Sunni Muslim nations or entity so far as I know.

It is doubtful that Trump put any agents in danger unless you want to make a tangled web argument.

The only possible danger is that Russia might feel we are supporting Sunni Muslim extremists as opposed to simply collecting info about them from moles. Perhaps they might see these agents as pro terrorist enemies.

Russia is consistently anti extremist and it does rightly see us as highly inconsistent (to put it mildly ).

Anyway, the CIA and FBI are going to be looking for all kinds of 'impeachable ' offenses to be offended at during the Trump administration.

Trump normally would relish a fight with his hated enemies, but he surely knows the treacherous ground is risky here, due to the additional complications which include the numerical necessity of holding the Washington Republicans in his support camp. Nixon was toast once he lost the conservative Democrats in congress, and the vote numbers we thus pro impeachment

Trump might have the advantage of having a Democratic opposition as stinky as poop, but the intelligence agency politics involve forces far more powerful than a poopy opposition party.

Challenging dynamics for Trump.

And the risk he takes far more than political. The intelligence agencies clearly have the ability to make his political disagreements into crimes that can land you in prison.

He must know this.

For that reason, he might be really recording all of his conversations with the agencies that he legally is allowed to record.

He has to be careful there too.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 829 by marc9000, posted 05-17-2017 5:28 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 836 by Taq, posted 05-17-2017 6:09 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 6644
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 836 of 902 (809292)
05-17-2017 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 835 by LamarkNewAge
05-17-2017 6:02 PM


Re: What Republicans say: then and now
LamarckNewAge writes:

It is doubtful that Trump put any agents in danger unless you want to make a tangled web argument.

Russia absolutely detests the US influence in the region so they would be all to happy to have those agent/s dead and then blame it on the loose lips of Trump. Anything that diminishes US projected power is a win for the Russians.

Afterall, why did Russia erect anti-aircraft batteries in Syria? The rebels fighting in the Syrian civil war don't have any airplanes. The only airplanes fighting in that war are Russian and Syrian planes. The answer is really simple. Those missiles are there as a deterrent to US aircraft.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 835 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-17-2017 6:02 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 840 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-17-2017 6:16 PM Taq has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 836
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 837 of 902 (809294)
05-17-2017 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 829 by marc9000
05-17-2017 5:28 PM


Oh, I don't think Trump has anything to fear on the alleged election collusion.
He relishes that investigation.

He does need to fear all the post January 20 accusations that the CIA will level against him.

Especially if he works hard to get allied with Russia.

This is a taste of what he will be dealing with.

Kennedy had to negotiate with Russia in secret as we all know what was said about him at the time. He was called weak and a collusionist.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 829 by marc9000, posted 05-17-2017 5:28 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 839 by Taq, posted 05-17-2017 6:15 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 3654
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 838 of 902 (809295)
05-17-2017 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 829 by marc9000
05-17-2017 5:28 PM


Re: What Republicans say: then and now
The actions were not the same. Obama didn't share that information with Syria, because of the outcry against it and the discussion of the proposal. As is standard in such cases, he consulted with knowledgeable and smart people before doing anything.

Trump didn't.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 829 by marc9000, posted 05-17-2017 5:28 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 6644
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 839 of 902 (809297)
05-17-2017 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 837 by LamarkNewAge
05-17-2017 6:11 PM


Re: Oh, I don't think Trump has anything to fear on the alleged election collusion.
LamarckNewAge writes:

He relishes that investigation.
He does need to fear all the post January 20 accusations that the CIA will level against him.

Especially if he works hard to get allied with Russia.

If so, Trump is doing the best impression of a guilty person that I have seen in a while.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 837 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-17-2017 6:11 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 892 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-13-2017 11:14 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 836
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 840 of 902 (809298)
05-17-2017 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 836 by Taq
05-17-2017 6:09 PM


Re: What Republicans say: then and now
Russia and Israel are essentially on the same side when it comes to Sunni Muslims.

Israel was one of the few nations that is pro Russian in its UN votes over the Ukrainian situation.

These nations aren't enemies.

The Syrian situation is an atypical situation and has few parallels.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 836 by Taq, posted 05-17-2017 6:09 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 841 by Taq, posted 05-17-2017 6:21 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

    
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