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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
vimesey
Member
Posts: 888
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 1021 of 1419 (816472)
08-05-2017 2:43 AM


It's a hard life for little snowflakes.
"I'm going to be working for you, I'm not going to have time to go play golf"

https://www.theguardian.com/...laiming-i-dont-take-vacations

'Nuff said.

Edited by vimesey, : Forgot the link


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

Replies to this message:
 Message 1023 by Phat, posted 08-06-2017 3:05 PM vimesey has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9908
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1022 of 1419 (816537)
08-05-2017 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1007 by NoNukes
08-03-2017 2:27 PM


Re: New poll numbers 33% approval ratings
NoNukes writes:

Trump has had an incredibly rocky two weeks, and his poll numbers are beginning to show signs of erosion of Republican support.

This was in todays media: With His Back Against The Wall, Trump Again Turns To Grievance Politics


This was a recent rally August 3rd, 2017.
On Russia, Two Trumps: In D.C., Constrained; For The Nation, Defiant

Trump is turning to his base supporters for support since he has little accomplishment elsewhere.

Edited by Phat, : add pic


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1007 by NoNukes, posted 08-03-2017 2:27 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9908
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1023 of 1419 (816577)
08-06-2017 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1021 by vimesey
08-05-2017 2:43 AM


Re: It's a hard life for little snowflakes.
quote:
Actually, Trump gets out of town quite often. So far, he has spent 13 of 28 weekends in office away from the White House, mostly at his properties in Palm Beach, Florida, or in Bedminster, New Jersey, according to an Associated Press count. The figures include a weekend during official travel overseas and Father’s Day weekend at Camp David, the government-owned presidential retreat in Maryland.

Contrast Trump’s frequent getaways with his criticism, before and during last year’s presidential campaign, of Barack Obama’s vacations and frequent golf outings.

“@BarackObama played golf yesterday. Now he heads to a 10 day vacation in Martha’s Vineyard. Nice work ethic,” Trump tweeted in August 2011.

Trump said last year that he wouldn’t have time for golf if he became president.


Trump really despises Obama. Personally, I think its because Obama will always be more popular among the people-at-large globally than Trump ever will.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1021 by vimesey, posted 08-05-2017 2:43 AM vimesey has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1034 by marc9000, posted 08-07-2017 10:19 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 906
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


(1)
Message 1024 of 1419 (816580)
08-06-2017 4:38 PM


Trump's accomplishments
quote:
What Has Trump Done Since Taking Office?
Only...

01. Supreme Court Judge Gorsuch
02. 59 missiles dropped in Syria.
03. He took us out of ‘TPP'
04. Illegal immigration is now down 70% (the lowest in 17 years)
05. Consumer confidence highest since 2000 at index 125.6
06. Mortgage applications for new homes rise to a 7 year high.
07. Arranged 20% Tariff on soft lumber from Canada.
08. Bids for border wall are well underway.
09. Pulled out of the lopsided 'Paris Accord'.
10. Keystone pipeline approved.
11. NATO allies boost spending by 4.3%
12. Allowing VA to terminate bad employees.
13. Allowing private healthcare choices for veterans.
14. More than 600,000. Jobs created
15. Median household income at a 7 year high.
16. The Stock Market is at the highest ever In its history.
17. China agreed to American import of beef.
18. $89 Billion saved in regulation rollbacks.
19. Rollback of A Regulation to boost coal mining.
20. MOAB for ISIS
21. Travel ban reinstated.
22. Executive order for religious freedom.
23. Jump started NASA
24. $600 million cut from UN peacekeeping budget.
25. Targeting of MS13 gangs
26. Deporting violent illegal immigrants.
27. Signed 41 bills to date
28. Created a commission on child trafficking
29. Created a commission on voter fraud
30. Created a commission for opioids addiction.
31. Giving power to states to drug test unemployment recipients.
32. Unemployment lowest since May 2007.
33. Historic Black College University initiative
34. Women In Entrepreneurship Act
35. Created an office for illegal immigrant crime victims.
36. Reversed Dodd-Frank
37. Repealed DOT ruling which would have taken power away from local governments for infrastructure planning
38. Order to stop crime against law enforcement.
39. End of DAPA program.
40. Stopped companies from moving out of America.
41. Promoted businesses to create American Jobs.
42. Encouraged country to once again 'Buy American and  Hire American!
43. Cutting regulations 2 for every one created
44. Review of all trade agreements to make sure they are America First
45. Apprentice program
46. Highest manufacturing surge in 3 years.
47. $78 Billion promised reinvestment from major businesses like Exxon, Bayer, Apple,                    SoftBank, Toyota...
48. Denied FBI a new building.
49. $700 million saved with F-35 renegotiation.
50. Saves $22 million by reducing white house payroll.
51. Dept of treasury reports a $182 billion surplus for April 2017 (2nd largest in history.)
52. Negotiated the release of 6 US humanitarian workers held captive in Egypt.
53. Gas prices lowest in more than 12 years.
54. Signed An Executive Order To Promote Energy Independence And Economic Growth
55.  President Trump has worked with Congress to pass more legislation in his first 100 days than any President since Truman.
56. Has already accomplished more to stop government interference into people's lives than any President in the history of America.
57. Has given head executive of each branches 6 month time Frame dated March 15, 2017, to trim the fat, restructure and improve efficacy of their branch


How about some line-by-line liberal rebuttals? Some you'll have an easy time with, others not so much.


Replies to this message:
 Message 1025 by Phat, posted 08-07-2017 9:59 AM marc9000 has responded
 Message 1026 by Genomicus, posted 08-07-2017 11:00 AM marc9000 has not yet responded
 Message 1027 by NoNukes, posted 08-07-2017 1:42 PM marc9000 has responded
 Message 1084 by 14174dm, posted 08-12-2017 12:40 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9908
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1025 of 1419 (816588)
08-07-2017 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1024 by marc9000
08-06-2017 4:38 PM


Re: Trump's accomplishments
Read this article, Marc. (no, its not "fake news"...)

The Policies of White Resentment

Notable quotes from the article:

quote:
If there is one consistent thread through Mr. Trump’s political career, it is his overt connection to white resentment and white nationalism. Mr. Trump’s fixation on Barack Obama’s birth certificate gave him the white nationalist street cred that no other Republican candidate could match, and that credibility has sustained him in office — no amount of scandal or evidence of incompetence will undermine his followers’ belief that he, and he alone, could Make America White Again.

quote:
Like on Christmas morning, every day brings his supporters presents: travel bans against Muslims, Immigration and Customs Enforcement raids in Hispanic communities and brutal, family-gutting deportations, a crackdown on sanctuary cities, an Election Integrity Commission stacked with notorious vote suppressors, announcements of a ban on transgender personnel in the military, approval of police brutality against “thugs,” a denial of citizenship to immigrants who serve in the armed forces and a renewed war on drugs that, if it is anything like the last one, will single out African-Americans and Latinos although they are not the primary drug users in this country. Last week, Mr. Trump and Attorney General Jeff Sessions put the latest package under the tree: a staffing call for a case on reverse discrimination in college admissions, likely the first step in a federal assault on affirmative action and a determination to hunt for colleges and universities that discriminate against white applicants.

quote:
white identity is often defined by its sense of being ever under attack, with the system stacked against it. That’s why Mr. Trump’s policies are not aimed at ameliorating white resentment, but deepening it. His agenda is not, fundamentally, about creating jobs or protecting programs that benefit everyone, including whites; it’s about creating purported enemies and then attacking them.

The evidence shows that many of Trumps so-called accomplishments are only playing to his base. They also are stoking class hatred and rivalry in our country.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1024 by marc9000, posted 08-06-2017 4:38 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1032 by marc9000, posted 08-07-2017 10:05 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Genomicus
Member
Posts: 846
Joined: 02-15-2012


Message 1026 of 1419 (816590)
08-07-2017 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1024 by marc9000
08-06-2017 4:38 PM


Re: Trump's accomplishments
Illegal immigration is now down 70% (the lowest in 17 years)

Not an accomplishment.

Bids for border wall are well underway.

Not an accomplishment.

Travel ban reinstated.

Not an accomplishment.

Created an office for illegal immigrant crime victims.

Not an accomplishment.

End of DAPA program.

Not an accomplishment.

All of the above are only accomplishments to those with racist and fascist worldviews. They are not accomplishments towards giving people greater liberty and freedom.

$700 million saved with F-35 renegotiation.

The F-35 sucks. Saving $700 million on a sucky project to begin with isn't an accomplishment.

Has already accomplished more to stop government interference into people's lives than any President in the history of America.

Lol wut

What's the p-value on that? What statistical tests and data points were used to arrive at that conclusion?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1024 by marc9000, posted 08-06-2017 4:38 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9998
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 1027 of 1419 (816591)
08-07-2017 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1024 by marc9000
08-06-2017 4:38 PM


Re: Trump's accomplishments
Accomplishments are apparently in the eye of the beholder. I'll characterize some of these with a view to giving Trump credit where appropriate.

01. Supreme Court Judge Gorsuch - Plus for Republican voters.
02. 59 missiles dropped in Syria. - Not a plus. Did not accomplish much of anything.
03. He took us out of ‘TPP' - We were never in it, but plus for base
04. Illegal immigration is now down 70% (the lowest in 17 years) - Plus for base
05. Consumer confidence highest since 2000 at index 125.6 - continued trend from Obama era; not a plus since Trump has not implemented any economic policy to speak of
06. Mortgage applications for new homes rise to a 7 year high. You might want to check the data on this one. Overall mortgage activity is headed down right now.

07. Arranged 20% Tariff on soft lumber from Canada. - Started a trade war with Canada when other administrations were able to negotiate a deal. Not a plus.

08. Bids for border wall are well underway. - Bids on something for which there is no budget. Not an accomplishment.

09. Pulled out of the lopsided 'Paris Accord'. Plus for wingnuts
10. Keystone pipeline approved. Mixed bag, but plus for base
11. NATO allies boost spending by 4.3% A trivial increase. If they were spending 1.5% of GDP, this would be a bump to 1.56%. In short, not an accomplishment.

12. Allowing VA to terminate bad employees. Plus

13. Allowing private healthcare choices for veterans. The president signed a bill extending a previous program. Not much of an accomplishment.

14. More than 600,000. Jobs created About the same number as were created over the same period last year. In fact somewhat fewer this year.

15. Median household income at a 7 year high. Continuing an existing trend. How much of this, not having screwed things up yet are we going to call accomplishments.

16. The Stock Market is at the highest ever In its history. Apparently just a bit more.

17. China agreed to American import of beef. This was announced in September. Total nonsense that this is on your list.

18. $89 Billion saved in regulation rollbacks. Need some details.

19. Rollback of A Regulation to boost coal mining. An accomplishment that we will suffer for, but the base likes it. Call it an accomplishment for the base.

20. MOAB for ISIS An accomplishment of some sort. Allowed the generals to decide to drop a big bomb. Is this what makes you happy?

21. Travel ban reinstated. Partially reinstated. The portions we all knew were unconstitutional were not reinstated.

I could continue, but frankly, there is enough dubious stuff here, that the entire list ought to be observed as questionable. I see some things that right leaning folks could legitimately enjoy regardless of whether I agree or not. But primary, this top half of the list contains a lot of BS. Trump and his Congress have not passed any major legislation, his buy American plan simply exposes his own hypocrisy since his companies do not "sell American", he's presented himself as a buffoon in front of his supposed allies, blabbed our secrets to our rivals, and has delivered political tirades to the boy scouts. He has yet to fill most of the positions necessary to actually run the government.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1024 by marc9000, posted 08-06-2017 4:38 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1028 by JonF, posted 08-07-2017 2:41 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply
 Message 1030 by ramoss, posted 08-07-2017 3:26 PM NoNukes has responded
 Message 1033 by marc9000, posted 08-07-2017 10:16 PM NoNukes has responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 3976
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1028 of 1419 (816594)
08-07-2017 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1027 by NoNukes
08-07-2017 1:42 PM


Re: Trump's accomplishments
TPP a plus for his corporate base, not so much for a lot of farmers who voted for him.

The "critically needed" Keystone may not be built because of economic issues and it still has a regulatory hurdle. http://ieefa.org/...y-kill-long-delayed-keystone-xl-pipeline, https://www.reuters.com/...a-pipeline-keystone-idUSKBN1AN17P.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1027 by NoNukes, posted 08-07-2017 1:42 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 3976
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1029 of 1419 (816595)
08-07-2017 2:55 PM


The part of the job numbers Team Trump doesn’t want to talk about

quote:
In other words, Trump and his Republican allies are impressed that the economy created a million jobs over the first six months of Trump’s presidency. What they don’t appear to realize is that these are the weakest job numbers over the same period in five years.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


  
ramoss
Member
Posts: 3043
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 1030 of 1419 (816596)
08-07-2017 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1027 by NoNukes
08-07-2017 1:42 PM


Re: Trump's accomplishments
AMount thing.. '600,000 jobs' is not because of Trump.. it take about a year before the things a president does has an effect on the job market. The first year of a presidency is basically the previous president's economy.

Next.. the 'bills' signed. That is the number of 'executive orders' , not bills signed. There is a difference you know.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1027 by NoNukes, posted 08-07-2017 1:42 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9998
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1031 of 1419 (816599)
08-07-2017 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1030 by ramoss
08-07-2017 3:26 PM


Re: Trump's accomplishments
That is the number of 'executive orders' , not bills signed. There is a difference you know.

I did not check the numbers, but I have seen quite a few reports that Trump had signed about 40 bills by the end of June 2017.

Link to a list of his bills.

http://www.npr.org/...p-has-signed-no-major-laws-5-months-in

15 of his bills used a provision of law making it easy to reverse regulations signed during the last 60 days of the prior administration. Those "easy pickings" are of course all used up.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1030 by ramoss, posted 08-07-2017 3:26 PM ramoss has not yet responded

    
marc9000
Member
Posts: 906
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 1032 of 1419 (816604)
08-07-2017 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1025 by Phat
08-07-2017 9:59 AM


Re: Trump's accomplishments
Read this article, Marc. (no, its not "fake news"...)

I agree it's not fake news, because it's not news at all. It's a liberal opinion piece. Lots of difference between liberal editorials and fake news. Liberal editorials are far less dangerous than fake news, because they don't really try to dishonestly hide where they're coming from. Fake news however, deliberately tries to twist and distort, to mislead viewers and readers who aren't very aware of what's going on, because they rely on few sources for their news.

A recent example (Saturday the 5th) of fake news came from the same place as your opinion piece, the NY Times, one of the best sources for both liberal opinion and fake news. This "news" report pulled out of thin air an idea that Pence and others are carefully planning how they will run for the presidency in 2020, because everyone knows that Trump will be a failed one term president. It can't be called a lie, because at Trump's age, there's always a reasonable chance he won't be able to run for a second term because of health reasons. And of course it's possible that his presidency could fail for any number of reasons, but that's no more likely than any past president. It's simply not news, when compared to other current events. It's just another attempt to mislead anyone watching who isn't paying as much attention as they should. Trump (and Pence) took exception to it of course, and ABC WORLD NEWS TONIGHT WITH DAVID MUIR carried the fake news further this evening, by saying Donald Trump LASHED OUT at the NY Times for this article. Their evening news often starts out by saying Trump LASHED OUT about something. Funny how Maxine Waters, Bernie Sanders, Al Gore, countless other loudmouth Democrats are never described as lashing out, no matter what they say, or how hysterically they say it.

Another example of fake news that I've described here before, is the way ABC news captioned Trump's description of Syria's dictator as having "crossed a lot of lines". The caption read,~Trump, "crossed a lot of lines"~ It was an obvious attempt to mislead anyone not paying close attention, making it look like someone was saying "Trump crossed a lot of lines" when the truth was that Trump was accusing Syria of crossing a lot of lines, which most anyone of any political view would agree with.

This type of fake news is going on all over the mainstream media every day, and it's all like the above, it's just slightly out of reach of being a bold-faced lie. It's how they get by with it. But they're not getting by with it very well, I heard the other day that only 18% of the population trusts the mainstream media to tell the truth.

But let's have a brief look at your opinion piece;

quote:
If there is one consistent thread through Mr. Trump’s political career, it is his overt connection to white resentment and white nationalism.

This type of accusation is largely meaningless, because it's just as easy to assert, and show opinions for, Obama's connection to black resentment and black nationalism. Or Mexican resentment etc.

quote:
Mr. Trump’s fixation on Barack Obama’s birth certificate gave him the white nationalist street cred that no other Republican candidate could match,

There was (and still is) a lot of time delay, secrecy, and dancing going on by Democrats concerning Obama's birth certificate. The Constitution clearly states that a president must be a natural born citizen, and a lot of people across the U.S. take that requirement seriously. As much as I like Ted Cruz, I for one don't think he was qualified to be president, since he was born in Canada. That Democrats thumb their nose at this Constitutional requirement by playing the race card against Trump is pretty amazing to a lot of people.

quote:
Like on Christmas morning, every day brings his supporters presents: travel bans against Muslims, Immigration and Customs Enforcement raids in Hispanic communities and brutal, family-gutting deportations,

Hearts bleed for family gutting illegal immigration deportation, but family gutting environmental regulations in coal country against U.S. citizens is just fine?

quote:
a crackdown on sanctuary cities,

What a honeyed term "sanctuary cities", for cities with local politicians who break federal law.

The evidence shows that many of Trumps so-called accomplishments are only playing to his base.

Like the NY Times only plays to it's base? Sorry, but Trump's base is far bigger than that of the NY Times. Trump's base knows something about world history, about the seriousness of $20 trillion in debt, about the threat of terrorism, North Korea, etc.

They also are stoking class hatred and rivalry in our country.

So you're saying you don't believe that the Obama administration did that? The Democrat advocation of the breaking of immigration laws doesn't do that? If so that's fine, we have to agree to disagree on it, and we'll see how things go in the 2018 mid-terms.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1025 by Phat, posted 08-07-2017 9:59 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 906
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 1033 of 1419 (816605)
08-07-2017 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1027 by NoNukes
08-07-2017 1:42 PM


Re: Trump's accomplishments
Accomplishments are apparently in the eye of the beholder.

That's true, I've seen lists of Obama'a "accomplishments in the past, and think about as much of them as everyone here thinks of this list. In both cases, the president is given credit for many things he had nothing to do with. In free markets, political leadership has nothing to do with much that goes on. However;

quote:
05. Consumer confidence highest since 2000 at index 125.6

08. Bids for border wall are well underway.

09. Pulled out of the lopsided 'Paris Accord'.

10. Keystone pipeline approved.

16. The Stock Market is at the highest ever In its history.

18. $89 Billion saved in regulation rollbacks.


There are more similar ones on this list - these are the kinds of things that ~ lessening government regulations ~ can accomplish, and these are the things Trump was elected to do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1027 by NoNukes, posted 08-07-2017 1:42 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1036 by NoNukes, posted 08-08-2017 6:59 AM marc9000 has responded
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marc9000
Member
Posts: 906
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 1034 of 1419 (816606)
08-07-2017 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1023 by Phat
08-06-2017 3:05 PM


Re: It's a hard life for little snowflakes.
By the way;

Trump really despises Obama. Personally, I think its because Obama will always be more popular among the people-at-large globally than Trump ever will.

Could that possibly be because many "people-at-large globally" dislike the U.S. and therefore dislike a president who they fear will increase U.S success?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1023 by Phat, posted 08-06-2017 3:05 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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frako
Member
Posts: 2708
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 1035 of 1419 (816610)
08-08-2017 4:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1034 by marc9000
08-07-2017 10:19 PM


Re: It's a hard life for little snowflakes.
i preferre a sane america to an america in a financial crissis with a fascist at the helm. And yea 2007-08 will repeat under this leadership.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


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