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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Phat
Member
Posts: 10087
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 1111 of 1491 (817549)
08-18-2017 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1107 by New Cat's Eye
08-17-2017 10:44 PM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
NCE writes:

So therefore, logically: If you are marching for something, and people show up agreeing with you that are carrying nazi flags and chanting naughty words, then that makes you a nazi too and I am justified in punching you if you do not leave?

. People may have a freedom to assemble, but common sense can tell us why they were assembling.

Throwing gasoline on a fire may seem like a necessary signal flare for some, and a public nuisance for others.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1107 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-17-2017 10:44 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1683
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004


(3)
Message 1112 of 1491 (817562)
08-18-2017 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1107 by New Cat's Eye
08-17-2017 10:44 PM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
if you ever catch me willingly marching with Nazis you have my permission to punch me in face, my father's parents will probably rise from their graves and beat you to it though.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1107 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-17-2017 10:44 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1683
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004


(3)
Message 1113 of 1491 (817563)
08-18-2017 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1103 by New Cat's Eye
08-17-2017 10:56 AM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
And yet they just posted that if there are 10 people and one Nazi then you have 11 Nazis.

no i said "if you have 10 people who think it's ok to hang out with 1 Nazi, you have 11 Nazis". I'm (or more accurately chris rock who i stole that from is) talking about people who willingly associate with Nazis.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1103 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-17-2017 10:56 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11816
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1114 of 1491 (817566)
08-18-2017 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 1109 by Percy
08-18-2017 7:07 AM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
Is this a hypothetical, or something you're claiming was substantively the case in the violence in Charlottesville?

A bit of both, I suppose. There is a point of principle: If you have 10 people and 1 nazi shows up, you do not, actually, have 11 nazis.

Too, at the Unite the Right rally, I'm sure there were attendees who simply wanted to protest the removal of the statue and had no interest in racism.

Just because some assholes show up doesn't make the other people assholes too.

The counter protesters lumped everyone into one group and called for violence against them all. They should be ashamed of themselves.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1109 by Percy, posted 08-18-2017 7:07 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1115 by Taq, posted 08-18-2017 12:08 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded
 Message 1116 by ringo, posted 08-18-2017 12:24 PM New Cat's Eye has responded
 Message 1121 by Percy, posted 08-19-2017 8:24 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7263
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 1115 of 1491 (817584)
08-18-2017 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1114 by New Cat's Eye
08-18-2017 10:29 AM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
New Cat's Eye writes:

A bit of both, I suppose. There is a point of principle: If you have 10 people and 1 nazi shows up, you do not, actually, have 11 nazis.

The ratio was probably closer to 10 Nazi's to 1 purposefully ignorant. When you see a large portion of the group marching around with torches chanting "Blood and Soil", it's hard to believe that the crowd is made up of people who innocently want to see a statue kept in a park, a statue that they don't know was put there by racists in the first place.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1114 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-18-2017 10:29 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13889
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(3)
Message 1116 of 1491 (817588)
08-18-2017 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1114 by New Cat's Eye
08-18-2017 10:29 AM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
New Cat's Eye writes:

I'm sure there were attendees who simply wanted to protest the removal of the statue and had no interest in racism.


If there were any of those "very fine people" there, when they found out they were consorting with Nazis and Klansmen they should have either:
1. got the hell out of there
or
2. switched sides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1114 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-18-2017 10:29 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1119 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-18-2017 2:43 PM ringo has responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 668
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 1117 of 1491 (817595)
08-18-2017 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 981 by Diomedes
07-31-2017 5:38 PM


And there goes Steve Bannon
https://www.yahoo.com/...165104169--abc-news-topstories.html

quote:
Steve Bannon out as White House chief strategist

Steve Bannon has resigned from his role as White House chief strategist, ABC News has learned.

A source close to Bannon told ABC News the resignation was effective on Aug. 14, exactly one year after he joined the Trump campaign.


This really is Game of Thrones!

Edited by Diomedes, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 981 by Diomedes, posted 07-31-2017 5:38 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1118 by Taq, posted 08-18-2017 2:39 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7263
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 1118 of 1491 (817600)
08-18-2017 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1117 by Diomedes
08-18-2017 1:07 PM


Re: And there goes Steve Bannon
Diomedes writes:

This really is Game of Thrones!

There is still someone who has a better claim to the throne, by 3 million votes.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1117 by Diomedes, posted 08-18-2017 1:07 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11816
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1119 of 1491 (817604)
08-18-2017 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1116 by ringo
08-18-2017 12:24 PM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
I already replied to that point in Message 1106.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1116 by ringo, posted 08-18-2017 12:24 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1123 by ringo, posted 08-19-2017 11:51 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1819
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 1120 of 1491 (817613)
08-18-2017 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1106 by New Cat's Eye
08-17-2017 10:40 PM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
New Cat's Eye, among many other things says:

They'd be choosing to march with me, I didn't choose to march with them.

My question is whether or not there was a reason they would want to march with you? And then thinking what reason would you have had to march with this Charlotteville group instead of against it?

But if some asshole decides to bring that flag to a march I want to participate in for different reasons, then there actually is more than one side.

But what would be your "different reason" here, in this case? Perhaps you might be talking about something else like Stopping A Pipeline?


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1106 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-17-2017 10:40 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1126 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-22-2017 2:03 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 16178
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 1121 of 1491 (817660)
08-19-2017 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1114 by New Cat's Eye
08-18-2017 10:29 AM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
New Cat's Eye writes:

A bit of both, I suppose. There is a point of principle: If you have 10 people and 1 nazi shows up, you do not, actually, have 11 nazis.

It was not the situation in Charlottesville of Unite the Right protestors mixing in to a larger group protesting statue removal. This is a long video, but just watch the first minute. We're talking about Charlottesville and what happened there, not some scenario you're making up:

If you have a group of white supremacists, white nationalists, Nazis, KKK and militia chanting, "The Jews will not replace us" and "Whose streets? Our streets!" and so forth, and you join them, guess what it means? You're one of them.

You're like Trump, trying to provide cover for groups with messages of hate, division and exclusion.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1114 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-18-2017 10:29 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1122 by Phat, posted 08-19-2017 10:53 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 1128 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-22-2017 2:20 PM Percy has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10087
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 1122 of 1491 (817685)
08-19-2017 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1121 by Percy
08-19-2017 8:24 AM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
I believe that in situations like the video describes, a common spirit descends on the people present. In this case, it was a spirit of pride, hate, and quite frankly evil. If anyone wanted to be at such a rally, no matter what you chanted you would be part of that same spirit.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1121 by Percy, posted 08-19-2017 8:24 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13889
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1123 of 1491 (817706)
08-19-2017 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1119 by New Cat's Eye
08-18-2017 2:43 PM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
New Cat's Eye writes:

I already replied to that point in Message 1106.


You said what you would do. Creating a third side doesn't help anything.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1119 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-18-2017 2:43 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6397
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


(1)
Message 1124 of 1491 (817753)
08-19-2017 5:25 PM


The New York Times:

About Stephen Bannon:

“And anyone who stands in our way, we will go to war with.”

Among those already in Mr. Bannon’s sights: Speaker Paul D. Ryan; Senator Mitch McConnell, the majority leader; the president’s daughter Ivanka Trump and son-in-law, Jared Kushner; and Gary D. Cohn, the former president of Goldman Sachs who now directs the White House’s National Economic Council.

I'll be loving it if they really do start to feed on themselves.


The Constitution of the United States was a layman's document, not a lawyer's contract. That cannot be stressed too often. - Franklin D. Roosevelt

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16178
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 1125 of 1491 (817859)
08-21-2017 9:00 AM


Trump on Afghanistan
From The Hill:

quote:
President Trump reportedly plans Monday to ask Americans to trust him when he addresses the nation Monday evening on his plans for Afghanistan and South Asia.

Why on earth would this bombastic, lying, equivocating buffon think he's earned any trust? Oh, wait, of course, he's also delusional.

--Percy


    
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