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Author Topic:   The 2017 Republican Controlled U.S. Congress
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1903
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 76 of 85 (825330)
12-13-2017 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by jar
12-13-2017 7:43 AM


Yes, but with my personal experience, I haven't seen people in any other country feeling so bitterly betrayed by Britain as the Poles do.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


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Taq
Member
Posts: 7515
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 77 of 85 (825333)
12-13-2017 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Pressie
12-13-2017 7:20 AM


Pressie writes:

On my limited experience in Poland, I learned that a lot of Polish people do despise the British. The aftermath of WW2. A lot of Poles think that the British sold them out to the USSR after the war. A lot of people in Poland despise the Brits.

The alternative was all out war between the USSR and whomever didn't allow them to keep some part of Europe. They already had a massive army sitting in the middle of Europe ready to take what they could by force if they couldn't get it through diplomacy. It's a tough choice, and I can't blame anyone for choosing peace over another 2 or 3 years of bitter war.


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Percy
Member
Posts: 17563
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 78 of 85 (825342)
12-13-2017 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Pressie
12-13-2017 5:43 AM


Re: Some Good News
From a great American President:

Abraham Lincoln writes:

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.

In my opinion Lincoln is unlikely to have said this, but you can find lots on the web discussing the possibility. It's a clever turn of phrase, but doesn't feel like Lincoln's phraseology to me.

--Percy


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Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by xongsmith, posted 03-24-2018 5:25 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17563
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 79 of 85 (825344)
12-13-2017 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Pressie
12-13-2017 7:20 AM


Pressie writes:

On my limited experience in Poland, I learned that a lot of Polish people do despise the British. The aftermath of WW2. A lot of Poles think that the British sold them out to the USSR after the war. A lot of people in Poland despise the Brits.

Either you're mistaken that Poles despise the Brits for not defending them after WWII or the Poles are engaging in some seriously misplaced blame. After the war strategically it would have been impossible, even with the full support of the US. The western allies recognized that it would be a race from opposite sides of Europe between they and the Soviet Union for where the post war boundaries would be drawn. That the Soviet Union would control postwar Poland was already a foregone conclusion by 1944 as they overran German forces in Poland and entered Germany.

Politics followed the realities of the war. After the fall of Poland in 1939 the Poles set up a government in exile in France under Prime Minister Wladyslaw Sikorski (I'm a WWII buff but by no means an expert, so I'm drawing upon Wikipedia, e.g., Wladyslaw Sikorski), but with the fall of France in 1940 that government had to move to Britain. Was that Polish government given assurances by Britain that they would guarantee Polish independence after the war? That seems possible early in the war, maybe 1940 and 1941, but by 1943 after all the German successes and allied setbacks there were no doubts that Poland would fall under Soviet influence. At that point Sikorski hoped that Poland's borders might merely move westward, ceding land to the Soviet Union while gaining land from Germany, but in 1943 he was killed in a plane crash.

Sikorski's successor, Stanislaw Mikolajczyk, was not even invited to the Tehran Conference (1943) where the allies discussed how postwar Europe would be divided, ceding eastern Poland to the Soviets. This was not only reaffirmed at the Yalta Conference in 1945, it was further recognized that all of Poland would be under the Soviet sphere of influence, and this was formalized at the Potsdam conference later that year after the defeat of Germany. Stalin had already set up a puppet government in Poland.

Even if Britain's sole determination after the war was to free Poland from Soviet domination, it could not have happened. Even if America had joined Britain in such an effort it could not have happened. Poland was adjacent to the Soviet Union (which after the war dominated all of eastern Europe), and that fact of geography is not Britain's fault.

The Poles may also be forgetting how economically devastated Britain was after WWII, though of course not physically devastated like France or Germany or Poland. Rationing in Britain continued for a number of years after the war.

--Percy


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 Message 80 by Pressie, posted 12-14-2017 4:31 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1903
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 80 of 85 (825368)
12-14-2017 4:31 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Percy
12-13-2017 1:30 PM


I agree with you that there was no other choice for Britain and the US, but those Poles don't see it that way.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


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RAZD
Member
Posts: 19544
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 81 of 85 (825380)
12-14-2017 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Pressie
12-14-2017 4:31 AM


"and the south shall rise again" ... except they lost. Badly.
I agree with you that there was no other choice for Britain and the US, but those Poles don't see it that way.

This compares to the southerners that refuse to believe that the south was defeated, and continue to promote racist hatred of the north and blacks. They have had a resurgence under Trump.

Sadly, almost any war I know of left some people angry with the results. In and Japan, while most people have embraced the result, there are factions that don't. For example the swastika waving boneheads in Germany. Lots of anger.


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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1690
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 82 of 85 (830195)
03-24-2018 4:14 PM


$1.5 Trillion Tax Cut for the Rich and Now $1.5 Trillion Spending Bill
So, the other shoe has dropped....

Does anyone want to bet where they (the GOP controlled Congress) plan to get the money to pay for this?

The next thing I expect to hear from Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell is the need to get rid of "welfare" like Social Security and Medicare. Put those lazy old people back to work, work or starve......


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


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Percy
Member
Posts: 17563
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 83 of 85 (830196)
03-24-2018 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Tanypteryx
03-24-2018 4:14 PM


Re: $1.5 Trillion Tax Cut for the Rich and Now $1.5 Trillion Spending Bill
Tanypteryx writes:

The next thing I expect to hear from Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell is the need to get rid of "welfare" like Social Security and Medicare. Put those lazy old people back to work, work or starve......

Paul Ryan is already on record in favor of entitlement reform, meaning cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.

Mitch McConnell's position is more varied. He has expressed support for Senate bills that include Medicaid cuts, but has pushed back against Ryan's desire to cut social security and Medicare.

--Percy


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 Message 82 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-24-2018 4:14 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

    
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1850
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


Message 84 of 85 (830197)
03-24-2018 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Percy
12-13-2017 12:22 PM


Re: Some Good News
Responding to the Abraham Lincoln "quote":

"You can be in my dream if I can be in yours!" - Bob Dylan, WWIII Talking Blues.

Edited by xongsmith, : interleaving posts


- xongsmith, 5.7d

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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1690
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 85 of 85 (830258)
03-25-2018 11:50 PM


Trump makes China pay for bloated military budget
My head spins every time I hear how many billions of dollars are supposedly ear-marked for various programs in the budget that was just passed and signed.

It occurs to me that this is mostly going to be burrowed money, considering Trump's tax cut for the rich. I understand that China seems to be the largest contributor of the funds that the U.S. government spends to fund the military and all the other programs.

Cool, China is paying for our military, and when you look at Trump's record for paying debtors, what should we expect? Maybe they will pay for the wall too.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


    
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