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Author Topic:   The 2017 Republican Controlled U.S. Congress
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1903
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 76 of 86 (825330)
12-13-2017 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by jar
12-13-2017 7:43 AM


Yes, but with my personal experience, I haven't seen people in any other country feeling so bitterly betrayed by Britain as the Poles do.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


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Taq
Member
Posts: 7575
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 77 of 86 (825333)
12-13-2017 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Pressie
12-13-2017 7:20 AM


Pressie writes:

On my limited experience in Poland, I learned that a lot of Polish people do despise the British. The aftermath of WW2. A lot of Poles think that the British sold them out to the USSR after the war. A lot of people in Poland despise the Brits.

The alternative was all out war between the USSR and whomever didn't allow them to keep some part of Europe. They already had a massive army sitting in the middle of Europe ready to take what they could by force if they couldn't get it through diplomacy. It's a tough choice, and I can't blame anyone for choosing peace over another 2 or 3 years of bitter war.


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Percy
Member
Posts: 17744
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 78 of 86 (825342)
12-13-2017 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Pressie
12-13-2017 5:43 AM


Re: Some Good News
From a great American President:

Abraham Lincoln writes:

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.

In my opinion Lincoln is unlikely to have said this, but you can find lots on the web discussing the possibility. It's a clever turn of phrase, but doesn't feel like Lincoln's phraseology to me.

--Percy


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Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 17744
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 79 of 86 (825344)
12-13-2017 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Pressie
12-13-2017 7:20 AM


Pressie writes:

On my limited experience in Poland, I learned that a lot of Polish people do despise the British. The aftermath of WW2. A lot of Poles think that the British sold them out to the USSR after the war. A lot of people in Poland despise the Brits.

Either you're mistaken that Poles despise the Brits for not defending them after WWII or the Poles are engaging in some seriously misplaced blame. After the war strategically it would have been impossible, even with the full support of the US. The western allies recognized that it would be a race from opposite sides of Europe between they and the Soviet Union for where the post war boundaries would be drawn. That the Soviet Union would control postwar Poland was already a foregone conclusion by 1944 as they overran German forces in Poland and entered Germany.

Politics followed the realities of the war. After the fall of Poland in 1939 the Poles set up a government in exile in France under Prime Minister Wladyslaw Sikorski (I'm a WWII buff but by no means an expert, so I'm drawing upon Wikipedia, e.g., Wladyslaw Sikorski), but with the fall of France in 1940 that government had to move to Britain. Was that Polish government given assurances by Britain that they would guarantee Polish independence after the war? That seems possible early in the war, maybe 1940 and 1941, but by 1943 after all the German successes and allied setbacks there were no doubts that Poland would fall under Soviet influence. At that point Sikorski hoped that Poland's borders might merely move westward, ceding land to the Soviet Union while gaining land from Germany, but in 1943 he was killed in a plane crash.

Sikorski's successor, Stanislaw Mikolajczyk, was not even invited to the Tehran Conference (1943) where the allies discussed how postwar Europe would be divided, ceding eastern Poland to the Soviets. This was not only reaffirmed at the Yalta Conference in 1945, it was further recognized that all of Poland would be under the Soviet sphere of influence, and this was formalized at the Potsdam conference later that year after the defeat of Germany. Stalin had already set up a puppet government in Poland.

Even if Britain's sole determination after the war was to free Poland from Soviet domination, it could not have happened. Even if America had joined Britain in such an effort it could not have happened. Poland was adjacent to the Soviet Union (which after the war dominated all of eastern Europe), and that fact of geography is not Britain's fault.

The Poles may also be forgetting how economically devastated Britain was after WWII, though of course not physically devastated like France or Germany or Poland. Rationing in Britain continued for a number of years after the war.

--Percy


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Pressie
Member
Posts: 1903
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 80 of 86 (825368)
12-14-2017 4:31 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Percy
12-13-2017 1:30 PM


I agree with you that there was no other choice for Britain and the US, but those Poles don't see it that way.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


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RAZD
Member
Posts: 19571
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 81 of 86 (825380)
12-14-2017 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Pressie
12-14-2017 4:31 AM


"and the south shall rise again" ... except they lost. Badly.
I agree with you that there was no other choice for Britain and the US, but those Poles don't see it that way.

This compares to the southerners that refuse to believe that the south was defeated, and continue to promote racist hatred of the north and blacks. They have had a resurgence under Trump.

Sadly, almost any war I know of left some people angry with the results. In and Japan, while most people have embraced the result, there are factions that don't. For example the swastika waving boneheads in Germany. Lots of anger.


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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1726
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 82 of 86 (830195)
03-24-2018 4:14 PM


$1.5 Trillion Tax Cut for the Rich and Now $1.5 Trillion Spending Bill
So, the other shoe has dropped....

Does anyone want to bet where they (the GOP controlled Congress) plan to get the money to pay for this?

The next thing I expect to hear from Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell is the need to get rid of "welfare" like Social Security and Medicare. Put those lazy old people back to work, work or starve......


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


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Percy
Member
Posts: 17744
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 83 of 86 (830196)
03-24-2018 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Tanypteryx
03-24-2018 4:14 PM


Re: $1.5 Trillion Tax Cut for the Rich and Now $1.5 Trillion Spending Bill
Tanypteryx writes:

The next thing I expect to hear from Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell is the need to get rid of "welfare" like Social Security and Medicare. Put those lazy old people back to work, work or starve......

Paul Ryan is already on record in favor of entitlement reform, meaning cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.

Mitch McConnell's position is more varied. He has expressed support for Senate bills that include Medicaid cuts, but has pushed back against Ryan's desire to cut social security and Medicare.

--Percy


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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1856
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


Message 84 of 86 (830197)
03-24-2018 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Percy
12-13-2017 12:22 PM


Re: Some Good News
Responding to the Abraham Lincoln "quote":

"You can be in my dream if I can be in yours!" - Bob Dylan, WWIII Talking Blues.

Edited by xongsmith, : interleaving posts


- xongsmith, 5.7d

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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1726
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 85 of 86 (830258)
03-25-2018 11:50 PM


Trump makes China pay for bloated military budget
My head spins every time I hear how many billions of dollars are supposedly ear-marked for various programs in the budget that was just passed and signed.

It occurs to me that this is mostly going to be burrowed money, considering Trump's tax cut for the rich. I understand that China seems to be the largest contributor of the funds that the U.S. government spends to fund the military and all the other programs.

Cool, China is paying for our military, and when you look at Trump's record for paying debtors, what should we expect? Maybe they will pay for the wall too.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1247
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 86 of 86 (838210)
08-16-2018 6:44 AM


Trump's tariffs just cost Chicago hundreds of jobs (moving plant to Mexico)
How is it that Trump has the power to do such damage?

I will tell you after you read the article.

quote:

Chicago-area manufacturer to lay off 150 people as it moves operations to Mexico, in part to avoid tariffs on Chinese metal

By Alexia Elejalde-Ruiz, Chicago Tribune

9 hrs ago

A manufacturer of storage safes is closing its two Chicago-area factories and moving operations to Mexico, in part because of the Trump administration's tariffs on metal from China.

Stack-On Products plans to lay off 128 people at its facility in Wauconda, Ill., and 25 people at its McHenry, Ill., plant when it closes both facilities Oct. 12, said Al Fletcher, human resources director for Alpha Guardian, the Las Vegas-based parent company.

"The operation is really not profitable," Fletcher said. He said the decision to relocate operations to Juarez, Mexico, was made about two months ago when President Donald Trump announced tariffs on numerous goods and materials from China as well as other countries, to reduce what the president has called an unfair trade deficit.

"Mr. Trump is part of this," Fletcher said. So far, the United States has imposed tariffs on $34 billion of Chinese technology goods and $3 billion of Chinese steel and aluminum, and has proposed another $16 billion.

Stack-On, which has operated in the Chicago area for 40 years, makes storage products ranging from tool boxes to gun vaults that are sold at Menards, Walmart and other mass retailers.

The company already has a plant in China and another in Mexico, and its only U.S. factories were the two in the Chicago area, Fletcher said. The layoffs affect manufacturing jobs, warehouse jobs and some office staff, and those employees will be given the option to relocate to El Paso, Texas, just over the border from the Juarez plant, he said. Engineering and sales and marketing employees will be retained and relocated within the Chicago area.

The 153 layoffs at Stack-On are among 885 coming job cuts that Illinois employers reported last month to the state's Department of Commerce and Economic Opportunity. The Illinois Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification Act requires employers with at least 75 workers to notify the state 60 days in advance of a plant closing or mass layoff that affects at least a third of the workforce.

Visit the Chicago Tribune at www.chicagotribune.com


Now, how did Trump happen to get such power?

Well, protectionism was always bad.

But the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930 made the average tariff 60%, so things got real bad.

But, four years after that dreadful act, Roosevelts Secretary of State Cordell Hull came up with an idea. He was faced with a pro-trade congress (Democrats were pro free trade if they came from the south, and there was a pro free trade party base in a party that swept into power), and he simply could have gotten the congress to lower the rates.

That would not really do the trick if the nation was to have a better chance of maintaining lower tariffs.

His big idea was to get congress to give the President the authority to simply proclaim tariff rates (up or down at whatever percentage rate).

Yep.

And it was a great idea, because he knew future congresses would just raise tariffs, even if a current congress was willing to move in a direction of lower tariffs.

The Reciprocal Trade Agreements Act of 1934 was it.

That allowed the President to choose the rates.

That answers the question about how Trump has the ability to jack up tariffs.

But, I should add that the post World War 2 GATT gave major world trading partners an opportunity to have "rounds" to negotiate broad tariff reductions that cross multiple countries at once. Once an agreement was made then all countries would cut rates. The President was able to get big benefits all at once.

There were 3 major rounds that were most important.

Kennedy Round (1963-1967)

Tokyo Round (1973-1979)

Uruguay Round (1986-1994)

(The Doha Round began in 2001 but failed due to anti-trade opposition)

These brought tariffs down to around 3%.

But Trump i jacking them up.

The WTO was the successor to GATT.

China joined the WTO in 2001 and their average tariffs (on ALL nations) have fallen from over 15% in 2001 to 9.8% today. They have tariffs averaging under 5% on the United States.

And our trading relationship has helped create hundreds of thousands of additional solar installation, metal-part manufacturing jobs, car jobs (among many others) IN ADDITION to jobs created by Chinese consumers buying our products directly.

Never mind the much lower interest rates we enjoy to to Chinese investors purchasing our government debt.

But Trump is demonstrating just how beneficial (and crucial) China has been to our nation's economic growth, by disrupting the free flow of goods.

(Trump claims he is attempting to lower tariffs, but tariffs were already coming down DARN SEMI-FAST, relative to the historically glacial nature of worldwide progress on free trade, before he came along. And if China did lower tariffs even further, then he would just complain about "intellectual property" next. This trade policy of Trump is not a helpful thing)

Trump (based on his policies & actions and words) misses the point on immigration and trade. We should want China to do well because we do well when China does well.

China is projected to have PPP per capita income above 35% of our per capita income level for the year 2022 (which will begin a little more than 3 years from now), and that is a milestone that we should celebrate, because in 2016, China was below 30%.

We need to celebrate the great progress we have all made, and not miss the fact that Chinese growth helps us in a major way.


    
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