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Author Topic:   A good summary of so called human evolution.
JonF
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Joined: 06-23-2003
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(1)
Message 166 of 184 (818378)
08-27-2017 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by Porkncheese
08-27-2017 3:30 PM


Like the earth is 6.5 to 6.6 billion.

Ah, just noticed this quoted. (I didn't have to read much of yours to detect the Gish Gallop).

The age of the Earth is 4.54 0.05 billion years. The uncertainty is due to the fact that no measurement can be perfectly accurate, it's not any shortcoming of the method.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


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dwise1
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Joined: 05-02-2006
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Message 167 of 184 (818380)
08-27-2017 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by JonF
08-27-2017 4:16 PM


Re: Not one fossil

Whose Line is it Anyway

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Porkncheese
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Posts: 72
Joined: 08-25-2017


Message 168 of 184 (818383)
08-27-2017 8:39 PM


Why so much opposition
Seeing people are going to ignore the issues I raised and continue to make assumptions of me then perhaps someone can properly defend your theories and ideas against the arguments made by the following people

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOtGb8hKyWE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZn7tTdCm6U

With so much opposition to the theory one has to wonder why


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dwise1
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Joined: 05-02-2006
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Message 169 of 184 (818385)
08-27-2017 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by Porkncheese
08-27-2017 3:30 PM


You see I'm in engineering and at university I studied physics where mathematics dictates everything.

OK, so you are not (according to you -- sorry, but creationists are such liars) some high schooler having to meet some Internet Troll certificate requirements ... but please believe me that we get too many of those!

Mathematics is simple. Physics is simple. Biology is messy, very messy. A very big part of biology's "physics envy" is that biology were as simple as physics. Well, it is not!

Are you still an engineering student or have you started working as an engineer? I have worked as a software engineer since 1982 and am about to retire -- Stop sneering at me!

You state:

There is only one correct answer. Any other answer is incorrect. There are no estimates or assumptions. There is no ifs buts or maybes. Everything is observable and measurable.

That tells me that you are still just a student.

Where are you? I ask that only to get around cultural issues. In the USA, engineering majors are something special unlike computer science majors who do not need to endure the same kinds of academic rigeur (at least in my experience). In the USA, engineering majors need to be thoroughly versed in mathematics and in physics, but also in the other engineering disciplines (eg, a EE has to also learn about ME and CE). College as party time? Engineering majors routinely have non-trivial homework every night, so no time for partying. As a Computer Science major with a computer electronics technician background, I also took EE classes for fun. Especially in the microprocessor class, I outshone the rest of the class because as a technician (and reader of the 8080A Bugbook) I went into that class understanding microprocessors far better than my fellow students.

Years later, I went to work for a company that designed computerized greenhouse control systems. It used a power-line carrier system to communicate with its sensors and controllers. That is commonly-known technology. At the time (long gone), our electrical engineer was of retirement age and was working on his retirement nest egg having invested in the company. He was an analog EE engineer with little understanding of digital design, whereas my own USAF technician training was strictly digital (though I understood enough about analog electronics to maintain our power supplies). I remember one ADC calculation where he was walking to his desk to get his calculator and I came up with the right answer before he could. He looked at the white board and muttered in disgust: "Powers of Two!"

There is only one correct answer.

Larry Wall, author of PERL writes:

There is always another way.


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jar
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Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 170 of 184 (818386)
08-27-2017 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Porkncheese
08-27-2017 8:39 PM


Re: Why so much opposition
We are certainly not going to debate YouTube videos as though they were science.

Sorry Charlie.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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dwise1
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Posts: 2951
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 171 of 184 (818387)
08-27-2017 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Porkncheese
08-27-2017 8:39 PM


Re: Why so much opposition
Oh come on! All you could think of were two ID bullshit artists? I mean, Jonathon Wells explicitly earned his PhD just in order to oppose evolution. Do you think that his studies had led him to oppose evolution? Uh, no, because his explicit reason for seeking his PhD was explicitly in order to oppose evolution. Just so he could yell, "Woo hoo! I have a PhD and I oppose evolution!" He didn't oppose evolution because of anything he had learned, but rather he had sought that degree just so he could oppose evolution. What a fucking fraud!

is that all that you have to support your position, just a bunch of fucking frauds? Well then, that is all that your position, your religion is, a fucking fraud!


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Porkncheese
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Posts: 72
Joined: 08-25-2017


Message 172 of 184 (818391)
08-27-2017 11:59 PM


Great scientific responses
Well done. Very scientific responses guys.

Why do you suppose Richard Dawkins is unable to explain the begininmg of life in this next clip? And why do you suppose Mr Dawkins admits that the theory of evolutional may in fact be incorrect?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8hcX2XHjIQ


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Coyote
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Message 173 of 184 (818394)
08-28-2017 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by Porkncheese
08-27-2017 11:59 PM


Re: Great scientific responses
Why do you suppose Richard Dawkins is unable to explain the begininmg of life in this next clip?

What does the "beginning of life" have to do with the theory of evolution?

The theory of evolution works just fine if:

a) life developed on its own,
b) life was poofed into existence by Thor, Old Man Coyote, or whomever,
c) life was transported to Earth via aliens or microbes from outer space, or
d) some other cause.

In any of these cases, the theory of evolution explains what it is intended to explain.

Origins, which only creationists think is a part of the theory of evolution, is another field entirely.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


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AdminPhat
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Posts: 1808
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004


(1)
Message 174 of 184 (818395)
08-28-2017 2:38 AM
Reply to: Message 171 by dwise1
08-27-2017 9:49 PM


Re: Why so much opposition
Dwise1 writes:

is that all that you have to support your position, just a bunch of fucking frauds? Well then, that is all that your position, your religion is, a fucking fraud!

Go easy on the newbie. He thinks we are attacking him personally rather than being passionate in the debate. Show some respect.


  • Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics.
  • Points should be supported with evidence and reasoned argumentation.
  • The sincerely held beliefs of other members deserve your respect. Please keep discussion civil. Argue the position, not the person.

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    Pressie
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    Posts: 1770
    From: Pretoria, SA
    Joined: 06-18-2010
    Member Rating: 3.1


    (3)
    Message 175 of 184 (818396)
    08-28-2017 5:17 AM
    Reply to: Message 160 by Porkncheese
    08-27-2017 3:30 PM


    So much wrong in your second paragraph.
    Porkncheese writes:

    Accepting religion growing up I then started to hear and learn the opinion of others. By the age of 16 I had rejected religion and just went along with evolution, big bang, all that.

    False dichotomy. The mainstream Christian Churches accept evolution the BB theory and all that. To them it's not a situation of either/or, but both.

    Porkncheese writes:

    I didn't give it much thought again until I was in my 30's when I started to hear and learn the opinions of others.

    Opinions are like anuses, everyone's got one.

    Porkncheese writes:

    And after watching, listening and reading arguments for and against I'm not at all convinced that the biological theory of evolution is 100% fact.

    Who's ever said that the biological theory is fact? The fact is that organisms have changed over time. The theory of evolution explains how. The theory explains mechanisms involved.

    Porkncheese writes:

    Much of the so called supporting evidence is inconclusive or subject to various assumptions.

    Actually, the supporting evidence is how the specialists came to the conclusions they have.

    And, oh, be very weary when creationists talk about "assumptions". Scientists have evidence for their assumptions.


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    Pressie
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    Posts: 1770
    From: Pretoria, SA
    Joined: 06-18-2010
    Member Rating: 3.1


    Message 176 of 184 (818397)
    08-28-2017 6:07 AM
    Reply to: Message 160 by Porkncheese
    08-27-2017 3:30 PM


    So much wrong in your next paragraph, too.
    Porkncheese writes:

    This leaves me with a similar feeling I had about religion. The feeling of being lied to. But this is worse because while religion is about faith science is meant to be about facts.

    Science is not just about facts. Science is so much more. Science is about explaining the facts.

    After all your misconceptions I didn't even bother to read the rest.

    Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


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    JonF
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    Posts: 3960
    Joined: 06-23-2003
    Member Rating: 3.1


    (1)
    Message 177 of 184 (818408)
    08-28-2017 8:26 AM
    Reply to: Message 172 by Porkncheese
    08-27-2017 11:59 PM


    Re: Great scientific responses
    Forum guidelines: Bare links with no supporting discussion should be avoided. Make the argument in your own words and use links as supporting references.

    Evolution and the origin of life are separate subjects.

    Dawkins is unable to explain the origin of life because nobody is able to explain the origin of life. Yes, an intelligent designer is a possibility, albeit a very unlikely one given the evidence we have. There's lots of research going on, and there are a plethora of possibilities and hypotheses. It was so long ago there's a good possibility we will never have a solid theory.

    The Theory of Evolution covers what happened given that life existed, so it is no weaker becasue we can't explain what went before.


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    Pressie
    Member
    Posts: 1770
    From: Pretoria, SA
    Joined: 06-18-2010
    Member Rating: 3.1


    Message 178 of 184 (818410)
    08-28-2017 8:43 AM
    Reply to: Message 177 by JonF
    08-28-2017 8:26 AM


    Re: Great scientific responses
    JonF writes:

    Yes, an intelligent designer is a possibility, albeit a very unlikely one given the evidence we have.

    A flottera of possible intelligent and unintelligent designers is a possibility, too. Albeit a very unlikely one given the evidence we have.
    This message is a reply to:
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    jar
    Member
    Posts: 29363
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 3.1


    (1)
    Message 179 of 184 (818413)
    08-28-2017 8:50 AM
    Reply to: Message 178 by Pressie
    08-28-2017 8:43 AM


    Re: Great scientific responses
    Actually given the evidence we do have an inept inefficient designer is far more likely.

    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
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    Replies to this message:
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    Pressie
    Member
    Posts: 1770
    From: Pretoria, SA
    Joined: 06-18-2010
    Member Rating: 3.1


    (2)
    Message 180 of 184 (818415)
    08-28-2017 8:58 AM
    Reply to: Message 179 by jar
    08-28-2017 8:50 AM


    Re: Great scientific responses
    Actually, given the evidence a flotilla of inept unintelligent designers is more likely.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 179 by jar, posted 08-28-2017 8:50 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

        
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