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Author Topic:   Trump's order on immigration and the wacko liberal response
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 856 of 993 (809826)
05-21-2017 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 854 by jar
05-21-2017 11:02 AM


Re: Sessions' DoJ vs Immigration Lawyers
Birth certificate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 854 by jar, posted 05-21-2017 11:02 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 857 by jar, posted 05-21-2017 12:40 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 857 of 993 (809828)
05-21-2017 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 856 by Faith
05-21-2017 12:05 PM


Re: Sessions' DoJ vs Immigration Lawyers
You carry that with you?
And you do know they are pretty easy to fake. Aren't you one of the folk claiming Obama's birth certificate is fake? But yours is real?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 856 by Faith, posted 05-21-2017 12:05 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 858 by Faith, posted 05-21-2017 12:50 PM jar has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 858 of 993 (809829)
05-21-2017 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 857 by jar
05-21-2017 12:40 PM


Re: Sessions' DoJ vs Immigration Lawyers
I do carry it with me. Obama's is clearly fake.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 857 by jar, posted 05-21-2017 12:40 PM jar has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 859 of 993 (809835)
05-21-2017 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 853 by Faith
05-21-2017 10:45 AM


Re: Sessions' DoJ vs Immigration Lawyers
Is fake ID that good that you can't tell?
Some are. Conversely, some valid IDs may have enough wear to look fake. I dunno. But I imagine that officials aren't just allowed to toss an ID into the trash saying, "Eh, looks fake to me." A hearing is to allow the party to challenge that sort of thing and to provide a chance to provide proper documentation. Like any judicial or semi-judicial procedure, it's probably good to have legal representation to make sure proper procedures are being followed.
Besides, lots of people don't routinely carry ID with them. I don't.
There's also the point I was trying to make that even if a person is in this country illegally, the law provides circumstances that allows the person to apply for legal residence (or at least be put way down in the queue for deportation) and to be released while the person's claim for those circumstance are being verified. Again, it's helpful, even necessary, for a legal representative to let the detainee know about the laws and to make sure the officials follow proper procedure.

Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. — Billy Bragg

This message is a reply to:
 Message 853 by Faith, posted 05-21-2017 10:45 AM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 860 of 993 (809836)
05-21-2017 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 855 by New Cat's Eye
05-21-2017 11:36 AM


Re: Sessions' DoJ vs Immigration Lawyers
How much is that happening?
Rare but it occurs.
American teen mistakenly deported to Colombia returns to Texas | CNN
Absent some representation, a person's status is verified in an adversarial process in which the search for the truth ends at whatever the government says is the truth. Sometimes the result is a deportation of an American citizen.
There are actually folks here who don't know that they are citizens, for which we might establish citizenship with a little research that the government has no reason or will to conduct.
There are other folks who may have one or more reasons they are technically eligible for removal but which are correctable.
More often the result is the removal of a person who may have legal rights to oppose the basis of the removal (which may be past crime or infraction that the government misrepresents as requiring not just removal), or at a minimum to escape a permanent or lengthy barring from returning legally.
I am not an immigration attorney, so I cannot present all of the possible issues that might arise at an immigration hearing. Yes, it is true that most cases are black and white. When folks are caught crossing the border and admit to being illegal, there may be little reason for a hearing. But that's not true for all.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 855 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-21-2017 11:36 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 861 of 993 (809837)
05-21-2017 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 855 by New Cat's Eye
05-21-2017 11:36 AM


Re: Sessions' DoJ vs Immigration Lawyers
the person isn't summarily deported before her legals status is properly verified
How much is that happening?
Evidently enough that procedures are in place to prevent it.
-
And the officials found a legal loophole where that can prevent that.
I mean, yeah - they're dicks, but isn't that how the law works?
I guess. And this is how freedom of the press works: to call out the officials for being dicks in the hopes that public pressure will force the officials to quit being dicks and/or to close the loophole.

Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. — Billy Bragg

This message is a reply to:
 Message 855 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-21-2017 11:36 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 878 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-22-2017 11:36 AM Chiroptera has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 862 of 993 (809853)
05-21-2017 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 855 by New Cat's Eye
05-21-2017 11:36 AM


Re: Sessions' DoJ vs Immigration Lawyers
I mean, yeah - they're dicks, but isn't that how the law works?
Sometimes, yes. But your question is a matter for a judge to decide, possibly in a hearing after reading a briefing on the issue filed by the two sides. And once decided there is the opportunity for a post judgement appeal, possibly up to the Supreme Court.
Does any of that sound like something that might happen when the defendant is unrepresented?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 855 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-21-2017 11:36 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 863 of 993 (809858)
05-21-2017 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 839 by PaulK
05-21-2017 5:05 AM


Re: Sessions' DoJ vs Immigration Lawyers
I'd like to see them admit to what they are really saying. I would like to seem them say that anyone accused of being an illegal immigrant - even if it is untrue - loses all rights. I would like to hear them admit that - far from enforcing the law - this is about getting the outcome they want - the law be damned.
What this is about is doing the common sense thing, according to the circumstances of the accusation. Circumstances can vary widely. The accuser can be one policeman, only influenced by what he saw, or influenced by what he and a crowd saw. Or the accuser can be judge who issued a warrant for any number of reasons. I don't know the exact legal requirements for what constitutes an "accused" person, and I know they're supposedly considered innocent until proven guilty, but that often doesn't stop them from being jailed while they're still "innocent". All accusations are not equal, and must be judged on a case by case basis.
Someone who is obviously an illegal immigrant, who was caught committing a crime, or who's accusation is immediately involved with preserving order and security, I'm sorry, my heart doesn't bleed for him to suddenly have brand new constitutional rights that he's never had before in his life.
Does that answer your question? Or do his brand new constitutional rights supersede the rights of all the U.S. citizens around him at a crime scene?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 839 by PaulK, posted 05-21-2017 5:05 AM PaulK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 864 by NosyNed, posted 05-21-2017 10:34 PM marc9000 has replied
 Message 866 by NoNukes, posted 05-21-2017 11:04 PM marc9000 has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 864 of 993 (809869)
05-21-2017 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 863 by marc9000
05-21-2017 8:21 PM


Re: Sessions' DoJ vs Immigration Lawyers
So, Marc, you believe that the USA was founded on erroneous principles and you would like to see it destroyed and new principles established?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 863 by marc9000, posted 05-21-2017 8:21 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 865 by Faith, posted 05-21-2017 10:40 PM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 879 by marc9000, posted 05-22-2017 5:24 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 865 of 993 (809873)
05-21-2017 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 864 by NosyNed
05-21-2017 10:34 PM


Re: Sessions' DoJ vs Immigration Lawyers
I for one would like to see the Leftist spin on it destroyed.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.
2Cr 10:4-5 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God...
Political Correctness is Cultural Marxism
If fascism comes to America it will be in the form of liberalism -Ronald Reagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 864 by NosyNed, posted 05-21-2017 10:34 PM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 867 by NoNukes, posted 05-21-2017 11:24 PM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 866 of 993 (809875)
05-21-2017 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 863 by marc9000
05-21-2017 8:21 PM


Re: Sessions' DoJ vs Immigration Lawyers
him to suddenly have brand new constitutional rights that he's never had before in his life.
Sure marc9000. Where "brand new rights" means as established in the 5th and 14th amendments, respectively enacted over 200 and 100 years ago. Nice try though.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 863 by marc9000, posted 05-21-2017 8:21 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 880 by marc9000, posted 05-22-2017 5:38 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 867 of 993 (809877)
05-21-2017 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 865 by Faith
05-21-2017 10:40 PM


Re: Sessions' DoJ vs Immigration Lawyers
I for one would like to see the Leftist spin on it destroyed.
Remember that we showed you that the so called Leftist spin on the constitution was also a view held by some of the founding fathers? Your response was that you hated them too.
Apparently, haters just hate.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 865 by Faith, posted 05-21-2017 10:40 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 869 by Faith, posted 05-22-2017 8:44 AM NoNukes has replied
 Message 881 by marc9000, posted 05-22-2017 5:39 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 868 of 993 (809920)
05-22-2017 8:24 AM


!
From Trump's speech yesterday:
"For many centuries the Middle East has been home to Christians, Muslims and Jews living side-by-side. We must practice tolerance and respect for each other once againand make this region a place where every man and woman, no matter their faith or ethnicity, can enjoy a life of dignity and hope."
Practise what you preach ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

Replies to this message:
 Message 870 by Faith, posted 05-22-2017 8:45 AM vimesey has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 869 of 993 (809921)
05-22-2017 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 867 by NoNukes
05-21-2017 11:24 PM


Re: Sessions' DoJ vs Immigration Lawyers
At least I hate things that deserve to be hated.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 867 by NoNukes, posted 05-21-2017 11:24 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 873 by NoNukes, posted 05-22-2017 10:03 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 870 of 993 (809922)
05-22-2017 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 868 by vimesey
05-22-2017 8:24 AM


Re: !
I've seen no reason to think he doesn't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 868 by vimesey, posted 05-22-2017 8:24 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 871 by vimesey, posted 05-22-2017 9:48 AM Faith has replied

  
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