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Author Topic:   Trump's order on immigration and the wacko liberal response
Faith
Member
Posts: 25864
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 946 of 992 (811278)
06-06-2017 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 945 by DrJones*
06-06-2017 1:41 PM


Re: Trump undermines his case(?).
So most conservatives are for single payer health care?

Most conservatives are for getting rid of the high premiums and other problems in Obamacare.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 945 by DrJones*, posted 06-06-2017 1:41 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 947 by DrJones*, posted 06-06-2017 1:54 PM Faith has responded

    
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1672
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 947 of 992 (811279)
06-06-2017 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 946 by Faith
06-06-2017 1:48 PM


Re: Trump undermines his case(?).
Why then did the house pass Trumpcare? (which will die in the senate)

Why did Trump praise Australia's Universal healthcare system if he and the rest of the conservatives are not for single payer?


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 946 by Faith, posted 06-06-2017 1:48 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 948 by Faith, posted 06-06-2017 2:03 PM DrJones* has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25864
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 948 of 992 (811280)
06-06-2017 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 947 by DrJones*
06-06-2017 1:54 PM


Re: Trump undermines his case(?).
I don't follow all the healthcare politics so I can't answer your questions. I've heard however that what Trump wanted is being changed a lot by others. But again a big concern with Obamacare is the high premiums some have to pay.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 947 by DrJones*, posted 06-06-2017 1:54 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 949 by DrJones*, posted 06-06-2017 2:23 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 951 by xongsmith, posted 06-06-2017 2:43 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 952 by Chiroptera, posted 06-06-2017 3:51 PM Faith has responded

    
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1672
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 949 of 992 (811281)
06-06-2017 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 948 by Faith
06-06-2017 2:03 PM


Re: Trump undermines his case(?).
But again a big concern with Obamacare is the high premiums some have to pay.

and do you think Trumpcare will reduce premiums but offer the same services? cause the CBO disagrees with you. In some cases premiums could rise by %800. They also found that those people who would pay lower premium would get less benefits.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 948 by Faith, posted 06-06-2017 2:03 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 950 by JonF, posted 06-06-2017 2:38 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 3891
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 950 of 992 (811282)
06-06-2017 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 949 by DrJones*
06-06-2017 2:23 PM


Re: Trump undermines his case(?).
And it would be much worse for the elderly. Like Faith. And me.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 949 by DrJones*, posted 06-06-2017 2:23 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1788
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 951 of 992 (811283)
06-06-2017 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 948 by Faith
06-06-2017 2:03 PM


Re: Trump undermines his case(?).
Faith writes:

But again a big concern with Obamacare is the high premiums some have to pay.

Yes - the Insurance Industry will charge whatever they can. They will deny paying out whatever they can. They are scum. They are foul middle men. Medicare for all would put the CEOs of these bloodsuckers out of business.


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 948 by Faith, posted 06-06-2017 2:03 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6393
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 6.2


(6)
Message 952 of 992 (811287)
06-06-2017 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 948 by Faith
06-06-2017 2:03 PM


Re: Trump undermines his case(?).
Hi, Faith.

But again a big concern with Obamacare is the high premiums some have to pay.

Yeah, I agree that it would suck to have to pay higher premiums.

On the other hand, some people -- like my sister -- have finally been able to get access to affordable health care.

I think some people getting health care that they wouldn't otherwise get is worth some people having to pay more.

'Course my preferred solution would be to raise taxes on rich people and use the money to fund a single payer system like the civilized countries have.


Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. – Billy Bragg

This message is a reply to:
 Message 948 by Faith, posted 06-06-2017 2:03 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 953 by Faith, posted 06-06-2017 4:38 PM Chiroptera has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25864
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 953 of 992 (811293)
06-06-2017 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 952 by Chiroptera
06-06-2017 3:51 PM


Re: Trump undermines his case(?).
The people who have to pay the higher premiums are not rich.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 952 by Chiroptera, posted 06-06-2017 3:51 PM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 954 by JonF, posted 06-06-2017 5:05 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 955 by Chiroptera, posted 06-06-2017 10:25 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 3891
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 954 of 992 (811296)
06-06-2017 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 953 by Faith
06-06-2017 4:38 PM


Re: Trump undermines his case(?).
But they are subsidized.

Far more than in any Republican plan, and the higher premiums especially for the elderly in the Republican plans make that worse.

But the Republican plans do provide more freedom, the freedom to not buy what you desperately need and want but cannot afford.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 953 by Faith, posted 06-06-2017 4:38 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6393
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 6.2


(6)
Message 955 of 992 (811312)
06-06-2017 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 953 by Faith
06-06-2017 4:38 PM


Re: Obamacare
Well, my sister is not rich, either. In fact, she is so not rich that she never had health insurance until the AFA.

-

That said, like I tell people who don't like to pay insurance premiums (I know I don't!): elect politicians who will work to make the US into one of the civilized nations. Tax citizens like the civilized nations do; reduce military spending to the levels that the civilized nations do; and then provide the level of services that the civilized nations do.


Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. – Billy Bragg

This message is a reply to:
 Message 953 by Faith, posted 06-06-2017 4:38 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 956 of 992 (811356)
06-07-2017 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 907 by Faith
06-04-2017 7:00 PM


Re: The "Religion of Peace" Strikes Again...and Again
I condemn any murderous attack like that. But this is the thread about Trump's efforts to curtail the immigration of dangerous people into the country and those on the agenda at the moment happen to be Muslims

The agenda is what is being questioned. Why has the Trump administration decided to remove efforts to target domestic wingnut terrorism while curtailing folks in countries who have never targeted us? Why is Iran on the list, but Qatar is not on the list.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Not really, it is a theory that is imposed on nature so consistently that you think you are observing it. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 907 by Faith, posted 06-04-2017 7:00 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6393
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 6.2


(3)
Message 957 of 992 (812551)
06-17-2017 12:13 PM


So much for stereotypes.
Another article from the New York Times:

Hiding Christians in the Cellar: Fear and Heroism in a Philippine Siege

In the Phillipine city of Marawi, supporters of the Islamic State were going through the city killing the non-Muslims that they found. There were examples of Christians being protected by other Muslims, even at the risk of their own lives!

Mr. Andilig said their employer hid the workers in his basement. When the militants reached his door, the workers overheard him arguing with them. “He told the gunmen that there were no Christians in the house,” Mr. Andilig said.

...

There was still evidence of that camaraderie at another neighborhood in Marawi, where five Muslim police officers hid and protected five Christian construction workers for nearly three weeks.

“We had our chance to flee because we are Muslims,” said Lumla Lidasan, one of the officers. “But as police officers we are mandated to protect the people. So we elected to stay because they will execute the Christian civilians.”

Remember, there are people who would enact oppressive laws that would treat every Muslim as if they were the same.

My point is, again, that "Muslim" is not does predict a person's character or behavior with sufficient accuracy that such blanket prohibitions can be permitted.


Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. – Billy Bragg

Replies to this message:
 Message 958 by Faith, posted 06-17-2017 12:29 PM Chiroptera has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25864
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 958 of 992 (812552)
06-17-2017 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 957 by Chiroptera
06-17-2017 12:13 PM


Re: So much for stereotypes.
That's great to know, it shows that no matter what evil the religion teaches personal humanity can rise above it. those are the Muslims that would pass Trump's vetting.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 957 by Chiroptera, posted 06-17-2017 12:13 PM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 959 by Chiroptera, posted 06-17-2017 5:24 PM Faith has responded

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6393
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 6.2


(3)
Message 959 of 992 (812585)
06-17-2017 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 958 by Faith
06-17-2017 12:29 PM


Re: So much for stereotypes.
those are the Muslims that would pass Trump's vetting.

Would they, though? (Hypothetically that is, if these incidents had been happening in a country that is to be covered by Trump's travel ban instead of the Phillipines.)

First, the travel ban didn't seem to allow these types of exceptions -- in fact, the first time the travel ban was attempted even people who already had their green cards were being denied reentry into the US.

Second, what is Trump's vetting process supposed to be? The US is still using the vetting processed developed in the previous administrations. The travel ban was supposed to be a temporary measure while that vetting process while it was reviewed by the Trump administration and, if judged inadequate, fixed.

What is the status of that review? Are they even doing the review? You don't have to wait until the suit against the travel ban has worked its way through the courts; in fact, if there really was a legitimate concern that the vetting process was inadequate, then it would be important to continue reviewing it even while the ban itself is still being litigated -- in fact, the review could proceed even if the travel ban isn't allowed at all.

My feeling is that the vetting process was just smoke being blown to justify the ban, which itself is just meant to be red meat thrown to Trump's Islamophobic supporters. If I were more cynical, I would even suspect that some in the administration don't really care whether or not the travel ban is upheld by the courts. Either way, they will have an issue they can try to use to whip their supporters into a new frenzy.


Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. – Billy Bragg

This message is a reply to:
 Message 958 by Faith, posted 06-17-2017 12:29 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 960 by Faith, posted 06-17-2017 7:16 PM Chiroptera has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25864
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 960 of 992 (812594)
06-17-2017 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 959 by Chiroptera
06-17-2017 5:24 PM


Re: So much for stereotypes.
I get it, you are just fine with terrorists getting into the country because you think any attempt to vet or discriminate at all is "Islamophobia." God must be pretty fed up with us to allow this attitude to be so prevalent.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 959 by Chiroptera, posted 06-17-2017 5:24 PM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 961 by jar, posted 06-17-2017 7:21 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 962 by Chiroptera, posted 06-18-2017 11:21 AM Faith has responded

    
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