Atheism Cannot Rationally Explain Morals.

Well thought out and consistent and basically TRUE.Evolutionists must be consistent, and to be consistent, means exactly what you have stated. They have to admit according to evolutionary theory that their life is meaningless and an accident of mutations.No wonder so many atheists get depressed.My point was that some atheists actually accept love as their morality, and the good Lord blesses them for their actions toward others in love.
Mind you eventually if they are honest, they have to admit they dont have much love and arent very sacrificial, and hence again get depressed with themselves and their fallibility and failings. And so again can get bitter and mean and lose their human love for mankindAtheism is a tough road to hoe, they try but fail or just fail by getting meaner and meaner in their LAST DAYS. They need to find more MEANING than denials and arrogance.If they only realized GOD IS LOVE, JESUS IS LOVE.True morality is when you learn you are a dirty rotten sinner like the rest of us and fallible, and then have MERCY in your heart for others, rather than becoming religious, proud and arrogant whether as a atheist, evoluytionists or holier than thou religionist.

Not exactly. Society's morals are influenced by history and culture as well as by current opinions. The "right and wrong" that we learn can change as we are exposed to different ideas and different cultures. The idea that it's wrong to discriminate on the basis of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. is much more recent than the idea that 's wrong to kill or steal.So it isn't "whatever you want it to be". It's whatever has been assimilated by your culture.

Monogamy seems to be an obvious example. We all "know" it's "wrong" to cheat on your spouse, boyfriend/girlfriend, etc. but cheating is very common. I don't know about hat. I'd say that rationality is about what we think; it has little to do with what we do.

On the contrary, we define our own meaning instead of having "meaning" spoon-fed to us by some alien overlord. As I define meaning, not only are my children more important than bugs but they're more important than you.

But the point, of course, is that you have no objective or reliable basis for your valuation of human life or whatever you value. We may feel humanity is important, but the ToE is a strong influence we all encounter that says we aren't important at all.It's presented as scientific truth, after all, and there's no avoiding the implication that if we're just a product of mindless chemicals that accidentally managed to create us, no matter how special we seem to ourselves we have to accept that it's an illusion because we're just a bunch of dispensable chemicals. You can subjectively value whatever you like, you haven't a leg to stand on outside of your own feelings, and your feelings are nothing but a byproduct of the accidental arrangement of atoms. No better than a bug.Your soul rebels at such an idea? Certainly your children are immensely important? How do you hold onto such an idea when you know the "truth?"The God of the Bible thinks you're important. But you have to know He's real, otherwise He's just another illusion and there is nothing at all to save you from utter objective meaninglessness.

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But the point, of course, is that you have no objective or reliable basis for your valuation of human life or whatever you value. We may feel humanity is important, but the ToE is a strong influence we all encounter that says we aren't important at all.

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By which you mean that you only value humans for things that you only presume to be true. The rest of us need not be subject to your prejudices.

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It's presented as scientific truth, after all, and there's no avoiding the implication that if we're just a product of mindless chemicals that accidentally managed to create us, no matter how special we seem to ourselves we have to accept that it's an illusion because we're just a bunch of dispensable chemicals.

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We can value ourselves for what we are, and not for our origins or basic physical constituents. A diamond is "only" carbon, but if you think it is no different from a smear of graphite for that reason then you are a fool.All you are doing is revealing your own limitations.

Sorry but you really haven't read the Bible have you Faith. The God portrayed in the Bible stories is a viscous genocidal monster that does not think people are important.

On the contrary, the collective morality of the place where I actually live is far more reliable than the opinion of some spook (who may or may not even exist). As Thomas Paine said: people can manage their own affairs better than some goober an ocean away. On the contrary, evolution suggests that our genes are important, so our children have to be protected until they can pass them on. That's the foundation of all morality.

We create our own meanings Faith. You've chosen a meaning from your book, others chose meanings from different books.Prior to books there were many competing local gods - both good and evil that people looked to. There were ancestors, trees, mountains, animals, stars, kings, healers, charatans, spirits etc etc - almost anything would do - we just had to pin our hopes on them. These belief systems change over time - none of them are immutable.Buddhists believe that simply looking for meaning is what causes dissatisfaction - nirvana is achieved by accepting what is not striving to understand more.Most atheists say that because life is quite probably totally accidental we need to enjoy just being alive. Which is quite easy to do. Being alive is pretty cool.It really doesn't matter where we find our meanings unless we try to inflict them on each other - though, of course, I would argue that the more rational the thing we find meaning in, the better for all of us.I enjoyed reading Davidjay's nonsensical rant explaing why atheists are so depressed and can't explain ethics and morality. I think he needs to meet a few.

No they don't, because not being lunatics or morons they are aware that this is not in fact what evolutionary theory says.

No it doesn't. It is trivial to avoid that "implication". To begin with, one could notice that it's not an implication. I also think that you're important; also I exist.

Denial is so easy. When I believed in evolution I hated the implication that we weren't worth anything, and people SAY that, how can you deny it? People liked to point out how human value was demoted by Darwin and Freud and somebody else, I forget who -- Einstein? Such blows to our inflated ego, they reveled in it. I haven't heard that one in years but the basic idea hasn't gone away. Even without believing in God I did think we were important in the teeth of evolutionistic ego-shrinking and perhaps most of us do, but it's utterly irrational when human reality is defined by being an animal made out of blind chemicals.

Yawn.Guess what Faith? The rest of us have absolutely no problem understanding morality which is why even the greatest criminals of the last few hundred years have been far more moral than the God described in many of the Bible stories.Edited by jar, : there is no 9 in is

But why? Saying it doesn't make it so; and since it evidently isn't so, the onus is on you to produce an argument.---You are using a notion of importance and value which is used by no-one, not even you, except for the purposes of lame Christian apologetics.Suppose you asked someone to explain why (for example) his computer was valuable to him, and why it is important that he have one. We would expect him to talk about what the computer does, wouldn't he? And if instead he said "It is valuable to me only because it was made on Tuesday, in Korea, out of polycarbonate; it would be quite worthless to me if it if it worked just the same way but was made on Wednesday, in Japan, out of acrylonitrile butadiene styrene" --- well, we'd think he'd gone mad, wouldn't we?But this same madness is offered to us quite seriously by the Christian apologists. We point to a man and ask if he has value and importance. They reply: "This same man, having the same capacity to think and dream, to grieve and rejoice, is either of no value or of great value, depending on whether he was made by nature out of atoms or by God out of atoms and also some invisible bits."It is hard to see why anyone would say such a thing --- but religion does make people do funny things sometimes.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Good post Faith,"Denial is so easy. When I believed in evolution I hated the implication that we weren't worth anything, and people SAY that, how can you deny it? People liked to point out how human value was demoted by Darwin and Freud and somebody else, I forget who -- Einstein? Such blows to our inflated ego, they reveled in it. I haven't heard that one in years but the basic idea hasn't gone away. Even without believing in God I did think we were important in the teeth of evolutionistic ego-shrinking and perhaps most of us do, but it's utterly irrational when human reality is defined by being an animal made out of blind chemicals."But mans and womens ego is the main religious reason why they believe in evolution. They adopt the tenets of evolutionary luck and chance because it inflates their ego, to think they are the masters of their Universe and no one is above them and no one watches over them cares for them or can stop them from doing what they want.They adopt evolution and atheism as their cornerstone of faith and hope. It elevates their low self esteem, as they deem serving a great LOVING GOD as demeaning.(Mind you this almost always started with the dam church holiness church system offended them or hurting them or abusing them, or misleading them. Their hearts are a mess and so they totally reject the Lord because they cant separate worldly churches and the true loving Jesus. How sad. Yet its still their fault because they could wake up and be liberated, into serving their loved ones and others, and freed mentally, physically and spiritually. Its their choice)