Atheism Cannot Rationally Explain Morals.

Of course the God in the Bible said just the opposite, instead of any "fall" God said man had become just like God.It is only those who pervert the Bible that market the idea of some "fall".

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And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

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And yet the passage from Ecclesiastes does not contain the words "under certain rare and unusual circumstances".

Everything in the Bible is to be read in the context of everything else in the Bible and humanity was "made in the image of God," not in the image of animals.

Heh, good luck with that.Anyway, the idea's there in the plain literal reading of the text, and so it must have occurred to some people (wrongly, if you insist) that what it said was actually true.But we digress, I am not particularly interested in your views on Biblical exegesis.

They think they do. That's all that matters. Whether the human will to survive is based on some woo-woo "meaning" imparted by some alien overlord or whether it's just a blind, mindless, unconscious and uncaring "desire" to pass on our genes, it's all that matters.The fact that we want to survive and we want our children to survive is all that propels morality. Even kowtowing to an alien overlord is based on the same will to survive.

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As usual, such a simple point so strangely misunderstood and unnecessarily complicated.

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That is your problem. You will note that the first demotion is one I explicitly referred to earlier. And, as I said, you see no reason to promote geocentrism to restore human pride.Blows to human pride do not remove all value from the human species or from human individuals. If blows to your pride cause you to deny any worth to humanity then it only indicates that you have a psychological problem.

What about imprisonment then? If abortion is murder, a woman who obtains an abortion should be treated as a murderer, shouldn't she?

Inferences are often wrong, particularly when the people making the inferences don't know anything about the subject. Almost every post you make is testimony to that.For example, a "primitive" tribe might infer that a man with a flashlight was a god.

jar says: "the God described in the Bible says that humans have the same capacity to know right from wrong the same as God does. Have you ever read the Bible?"Humans have the capacity to form their own code of morality, but it may be very different to the code of morality of the God of the Bible. For example, Hitler thought it morally acceptable to murder 6 million Jews, but I don't think the God of the Bible - who told the Jews that he loves them - would consider it morally acceptable to kill 6 million Jews.Er, yes, I have read the Bible. -----------------------------------------------------You say it was immoral for the God of the Bible to kill certain human beings. Well, I've studied science and evolution and come to the conclusion that life is meaningless, and since it is meaningless, it is worthless. So when you say it was immoral for that God to kill all those human beings, I've got no idea what you're on about and wonder how you could be so ignorant of science. Morality? Why the hell should I care about morality? If life is meaningless, so is morality. And how did you work out that it's "wrong" to kill humans? Please explain.

Matter, per se, is chaotic. Chaos can't produce inevitabilities (outcomes), as chaos can only produce more chaos. If chemistry leads to outcomes it cannot be chaotic, but ordered. The only way chaos can become ordered is by an input of intelligence. Hence, if chemistry produces outcomes it must be designed/programmed to do so. Some intelligent entity would be necessary to do the designing/programming.------------------------------------------Morality involves choice. Selective pressures remove choice, don't they?------------------------------------------

Tangle: "Tell me, is it also true of a Christian who believes that evolution is a scientific fact?"No, a Christian doesn't believe that a human is worth as the same as a bug because a Christian believes humans are made in the image of God and the Bible also says God values humans other creatures. God says killing another human is a serious sin but killing a bug in not a very serious sin (or perhaps not even a sin at all).--------------------------------------------To a evo-Christian, a human is not the product of a meaningless process, but created out of love by God who promises eternal life to those who love him.

BUMP!Anybody going to comment on my previous message?From a scientific (and general moral) perspective, bees are of far more worth than humans.Bees are essential or near essential for the good of the Earth's ecology, while humans have a gross negative impact.MooseEdited by Minnemooseus, : Change "Nobody" to "Anybody".

Firstly, I don't know how you have linked morality to ecology. If atheists are correct - ie, evolution is true and there is no God - then life is meaningless and therefore morality is meaningless, which in turn means it doesn't matter if humans pollute the environment to the point where all life on earth is destroyed, since no life needs to exist.But in answer to your questions:1. I don't know.
2. I don't know.
3. I don't know.If you think bees are worth more than humans, does that mean killing a human is less immoral than killing a bee?Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Paulk: "Don't you think culture has something to do with it [human behaviour]"?Human culture is the result of human brain activity. If human brains are the result of evolution, then so is human culture.-----------------------------------------Paulk: "that would be true if all human behaviour is all unthinking instinct."How do you know that all human behaviour is not instinct? Perhaps individual humans are programmed by their DNA to behave in a certain way, regardless of the "thinking" they might do before deciding to act out the behaviour in question.William Provine believed that evolution means human beings have no free will.

In message 612 I said: Agree or disagree? I think killing a human and killing a bee is equally immoral. Killing a human, however, is much more illegal.
^ See "Modified by edit", below. ^How about the killing of 150 pounds of human vs. killing 150 pounds of bees? That's a lot of bees.I hate to advocate genocide, but leaving such up to God, I think the planet would have been a lot better off had God eliminate Noah and family also. Humanity is rather a disease upon planet Earth.So, was God being moral in how "the flood" was executed?MooseModified by edit:Above I said "I think killing a human and killing a bee is equally immoral. Killing a human, however, is much more illegal."I would like to change that to:I think killing a human and killing a bee are both immoral. Considering the impact of such upon society, killing a human is much more immoral. That's why killing a human is also much more illegal.Edited by Minnemooseus, : Modified by edit.