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Author Topic:   Atheism Cannot Rationally Explain Morals.
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5100
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 661 of 1004 (805447)
04-18-2017 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 660 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 2:47 PM


Dr.A writes:

I didn't say that. It's debatable.

Fair enough, that's we we're here for. Off you go.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 660 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 2:47 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 662 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 3:18 PM Tangle has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15960
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 662 of 1004 (805449)
04-18-2017 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 661 by Tangle
04-18-2017 3:06 PM


First I need Faith to define her terms. What is an objective and what is a subjective morality?

In the meantime, I would invite you to consider the word "plant". Once it included fungi, now it does not. And if it is convenient to distinguish between them, we could perfectly well have decided to distinguish between "green plants" and "fungal plants". Does that mean that whether something is a plant is subjective? That would be an odd thing to say.

(Note that the qualities of plants and fungi have remained the same all this time.)


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 665 by Tangle, posted 04-18-2017 4:07 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29433
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 663 of 1004 (805450)
04-18-2017 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 662 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 3:18 PM


DA writes:

Does that mean that whether something is a plant is subjective? That would be an odd thing to say.

Why is it strange? When we assign something to some arbitrary classification we are always make subjective decisions; for example your example of plants and fungi is a subjective decision based one what criteria we choose it examine. As you yourself said: 'And if it is convenient to distinguish between them, we could perfectly well have decided to distinguish between "green plants" and "fungal plants".'


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 662 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 3:18 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15960
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 664 of 1004 (805452)
04-18-2017 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 663 by jar
04-18-2017 3:25 PM


But there is an underlying reality which is unaffected by what we choose to call things. We could have used "dog" to mean cat and "cat" to mean dog, but that doesn't mean that the nature of dogs is subjective, it means that the connection between collections of phonemes and their referents is arbitrary. This is still objectively a dog ...

... it just isn't objectively called "a dog": we cannot say that the French are wrong to call it un chien, or the Chinese to call it gŏu. But it's still a dog.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 663 by jar, posted 04-18-2017 3:25 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 5100
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 665 of 1004 (805453)
04-18-2017 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 662 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 3:18 PM


I think you need to lead this witness. Just make your case.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 662 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 3:18 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29433
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 666 of 1004 (805460)
04-18-2017 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 664 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 4:00 PM


is it a dog?

What we include within the category "dog" is subject to the list of criteria we decide to include.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 664 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 4:00 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 667 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 6:05 PM jar has responded

  
Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15960
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 667 of 1004 (805481)
04-18-2017 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 666 by jar
04-18-2017 4:47 PM


What we include within the category "dog" is subject to the list of criteria we decide to include.

You are illustrating my point. Again, that's a fact about language and not about the animal.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 666 by jar, posted 04-18-2017 4:47 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 669 by Porosity, posted 04-18-2017 6:15 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29433
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 668 of 1004 (805482)
04-18-2017 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 667 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 6:05 PM


LOL

But what we are discussing is the language and the categories humans create.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 667 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 6:05 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 670 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 6:21 PM jar has responded

  
Porosity
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Posts: 155
From: MT, USA
Joined: 06-15-2013
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 669 of 1004 (805483)
04-18-2017 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 667 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 6:05 PM


How dare you! I would never call my baby (Kenny) a Dog!


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Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15960
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 670 of 1004 (805484)
04-18-2017 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 668 by jar
04-18-2017 6:13 PM


But what we are discussing is the language and the categories humans create.

But there is an underlying reality that is more important then these. It makes no sense to say "It is a merely subjective opinion that the sun is hot, because we could just as well have decided that the word 'hot' should mean octagonal."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 668 by jar, posted 04-18-2017 6:13 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 671 by jar, posted 04-18-2017 7:19 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29433
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 671 of 1004 (805485)
04-18-2017 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 670 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 6:21 PM


DrA writes:

But there is an underlying reality that is more important then these.

But that is irrelevant regarding reality of this thread.

DrA writes:

It makes no sense to say "It is a merely subjective opinion that the sun is hot, because we could just as well have decided that the word 'hot' should mean octagonal."

Probably good then that no one but you said that.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 670 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 6:21 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 672 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 7:35 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15960
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 672 of 1004 (805486)
04-18-2017 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 671 by jar
04-18-2017 7:19 PM


It's an analogy.
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Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 673 of 1004 (805564)
04-19-2017 9:41 AM


Atheists and Evolutionists cant explain 'altruism'..LOVE
Back to the TOPIC and away from dog pictures.

Atheists and their cousins evolutionists can not explain altruism, acts of altuism, symbiotic relationships, etc etc...

Their tongues get twisted and new phrases and wild theories come forth. They can not explain LOVE, morals, working together for the common good.

Their semantics has no bounds, lets listen


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


Replies to this message:
 Message 674 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-19-2017 9:53 AM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 675 by 1.61803, posted 04-19-2017 10:09 AM Davidjay has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15960
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 674 of 1004 (805569)
04-19-2017 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 673 by Davidjay
04-19-2017 9:41 AM


Re: Atheists and Evolutionists cant explain 'altruism'..LOVE
Atheists and their cousins evolutionists can not explain altruism, acts of altuism, symbiotic relationships, etc etc...

Of course they can, don't be silly.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 673 by Davidjay, posted 04-19-2017 9:41 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2718
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(2)
Message 675 of 1004 (805574)
04-19-2017 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 673 by Davidjay
04-19-2017 9:41 AM


Re: Atheists and Evolutionists cant explain 'altruism'..LOVE
Davidjay writes:

Atheists and their cousins evolutionists can not explain altruism, acts of altuism, symbiotic relationships, etc etc...

If you poke around the site's past discussions you will find these topics have been discussed ad nauseum.

If you believe that living organisms other than humans can be altruistic and develop symbiotic relationships then I would ask you to correlate that with your belief that these things only exist because humans alone hold the monopoly on altruism and symbiosis .
If you doubt that other living organisms possess the ability to be altrusitic and establish symbiotic relationships I would invite you to
do some personal research and reading up on just those topics in nature.

If you are un-interested in learning about such things because they may conflict with your religious beliefs them perhaps your placing a limit on the God you espouse to believe in.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 673 by Davidjay, posted 04-19-2017 9:41 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 686 by Davidjay, posted 04-20-2017 8:50 AM 1.61803 has responded

  
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