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Author Topic:   The Disgusting Berkeley Riots
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 16 of 275 (798537)
02-03-2017 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
02-02-2017 10:09 PM


One report I heard described a peaceful protest that was then
infiltrated by over a hundred out-of-town "agitators."
A common tactic to discredit peaceful protests. It only takes a handful and the media is all over it like the hairpiece on Trumps head. The news cycles show the violence and not the peaceful protests.
There are groups that admit to doing this because either (a) they don't think peaceful protest will work and isn't powerful enough of a message, or (b) because they want to break things and blame someone else.
They cancelled the speaker. Clearly the violence was aimed at shutting people up they disagree with. I guess this is the "Anti Free Speech Movement" in contrast to the 60s protests.
They cancelled the speech to prevent violence. Sadly that didn't work.
A better protest would have been to buy up all the tickets and leave the auditorium empty. It's been done.
Enjoy

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 02-02-2017 10:09 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 9:38 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 20 of 275 (798545)
02-03-2017 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
02-03-2017 9:38 AM


anarchists and agent provocateurs
Could have been the work of "outside agitators." Perhaps there will be some information coming about that.
Ever since the 60's it is well known that police and FBI infiltrate groups and foment violence. The worked to discredit MLK and other rights leaders running peaceful non-violent protests. Several have been identified as recently as the Occupy movement.
... Perhaps there will be some information coming about that.
quote:
Anarchists Respond to Trump’s nauguration, by Any Means Necessary
In Berkeley, Calif., on Wednesday night, masked protesters set fires, smashed windows and stormed buildings on the campus of the University of California to shut down a speech by Milo Yiannopoulos, an inflammatory Breitbart News editor and a right-wing provocateur already barred from Twitter. Five people were injured, administrators canceled the event, and the university police locked down the campus for hours.
That followed a bloody melee in Seattle on Inauguration Day, Jan. 20, when black-clad demonstrators their faces concealed to minimize the risk of arrest tried to prevent a speech by Mr. Yiannopoulos at the University of Washington, and a 34-year-old anti-fascist was shot and seriously wounded by a supporter of Mr. Yiannopoulos.
The outbreaks of destruction and violence since Mr. Trump’s inauguration have earned contempt from Republicans including Trump supporters who say it is exactly why they voted for his promises of law and order and condemnation from Democrats like Berkeley’s mayor, Jesse Arregun. He called Wednesday’s display contrary to progressive values and said it provided the ultranationalist far right exactly the images they want to try to discredit peaceful protesters of Mr. Trump’s policies.
But anarchists and anti-fascists, who often make up a small but disproportionately attention-getting portion of protesters, defend the mayhem they create as a necessary response to an emergency.
Yes, what the black bloc did last night was destructive to property, Eric Laursen, a writer in Massachusetts who has helped publicize anarchist protests, said, using another name for the black-clad demonstrators. But do you just let someone like Milo go wherever he wants and spread his hate? That kind of argument can devolve into ‘just sit on your hands and wait for it to pass.’ And it doesn’t.
Anarchists also say their recent efforts have been wildly successful, both by focusing attention on their most urgent argument that Mr. Trump poses a fascist threat and by enticing others to join their movement.
The number of people who have been showing up to meetings, the number of meetings, and the number of already-evolving plans for future actions is through the roof, Legba Carrefour, who helped organize the so-called Disrupt J20 protests on Inauguration Day in Washington, said in an interview.
Gained 1,000 followers in the last week, trumpeted @NYCAntifa, an anti-fascist Twitter account in New York, on Jan. 24. Pretty crazy for us as we’ve been active for many years with minimal attention. SMASH FASCISM!
The movement even claims to be finding adherents far afield of major population centers. A participant in CrimethInc, a decades-old anarchist network, pointed to rising attendance at its meetings and activity cropping up in new places like Omaha.
The Left ignores us. The Right demonizes us, the anarchist website It’s Going Down boasted on Twitter. Everyday we grow stronger.
Anarchists came to the fore in 1999, when they mounted a huge demonstration in Seattle against the World Trade Organization, which they denounce along with Nafta and other free-trade pacts as a plutocratic back-room group that exploits the poor. Enthusiasm for the movement dipped after the election of President Barack Obama. But it revived as they played a role in some of the most consequential protests during his two terms, starting Occupy Wall Street and serving as foot soldiers in demonstrations against the Dakota Access Pipeline at Standing Rock in North Dakota and in Black Lives Matter protests in Ferguson, Mo., and elsewhere.
We’ve had an enormous cultural and political impact, said David Graeber, a professor at the London School of Economics who helped organize the Occupy protests and has been credited with coining its we are the 99 percent slogan. He said the movement had elevated income inequality to the top of the Democratic political agenda, despite not electing anyone or enacting any legislation.
But he said Mr. Trump’s victory had proved that anarchists’ diagnosis of society’s ills was correct.
That red symbol being spraypainted is the symbol for anarchists. See their facebook page
So we can thank Trump for inspiring more people to turn to the dark side.
... Perhaps there will be some information coming about that.
Actually peaceful non-violent protesters do not condone the anarchy group/s in any way shape or form, because the ruin the value of the peaceful non-violent protests by distracting people/media/etc away from the issue of the protest to make it about violence.
quote:
Attention Protesters: That Over-Zealous Agitator Might Be A Cop (VIDEO)
Since gathering in groups to use our right to free speech is perfectly legal, why do police infiltrate protest movements with undercover cops? Why not simply police these events in uniform?
Maybe it’s because police officers or at least their police chiefs are inclined to destroy all protest movements, no matter how peaceful or just they are. Seen through that lens, undercover cops are just another tool along with police departments’ assault weapons, body armor, and SWAT vehicles to force our compliance.
Alas, for some folks, all demands for justice pose a threat, whether you’re from No KXL or from Al Qaeda. No wonder police approach the Occupy and #BlackLivesMatter movements the same way they approach crime rings and terrorist cells: With bullets, tear gas, and infiltration by undercover cops.
How can undercover cops destroy a protest movement? In an entry on agent provocateurs, Wikipedia explains that options for these cops include: causing drama to sow discord, inciting protesters to acts that are violent and/or not legal (though framing them or setting them up works just as well), and publicly sharing information in a way that makes a protest movement look less credible.
So how did Garrett figure out which so-called protester was the undercover cop? Oh, he was the one slamming a fellow protester into a wall.
He arrested one of the protestors outside, and slammed her into the wall, and pushed her back into the bank. We all saw him at the precinct with us. He was laughing with the fellow white shirt cops, telling them about what we’d been saying.

Sadly.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : .
Edited by RAZD, : added

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 9:38 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 12:26 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 26 of 275 (798562)
02-03-2017 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Faith
02-03-2017 12:26 PM


Re: anarchists and agent provocateurs
I don't really see much of this supposed condemnation of the violence from the Left, or from the media etc. The anarchists' views seem to be popular, even if the violence is tepidly decried.
And you don't believe me when I say the media is biased against non-violent leftists and doesn't show them or talk about them, waiting for the violence to occur before they consider it "newsworthy" ...
One of the first protests I was involved in was a peaceful sit-in for minimum wages at the university to apply to the black housecleaners. The local news was called and informed, and they asked if there was any violence, no? let us know when there is and we'll send a camera around ...
We don't really hear much from the Left denouncing the violence of the protestors, decrying the violent speech of those who want Trump to be assassinated, the white house blown up etc., and it seems to me we often hear sympathy with the violent demonstrations instead, even characterizing Trump supporters more or less as deserving it, because after all we're evil just as the anarchists think we are.
Well you won't see it on Faux Noise Nutwerk or any other of your "newsy" sources, it doesn't fit their agenda.
Enjoy

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 12:26 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 1:58 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(5)
Message 30 of 275 (798600)
02-03-2017 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
02-03-2017 1:58 PM


Re: anarchists and agent provocateurs
OK, I guess I missed your saying that the media is biased against non-violent Leftists. ...
What did you see reported about the rallies that Bernie had?
I attended one in a park in downtown Providence RI and not a single TV station covered it.
OR, they could write their complaint all over the internet. ...
There are pictures on the internet, go look for Bernie Rally ...
... That's interesting if so, but then you'd think I'd hear about them from the conservative media I listen to most, and I don't. They could call into many conservative talk shows and protest the media bias against them. Conservatives would be happy to know this.
... I'd see it, the conservative internet would pick it up etc. Why isn't that happening? It tends to contradict your claim.
Or your assumption that conservative media would cover it is false. Why should they give you information that would let you know there were alternatives to the narrative they provide?
You appear to live in a conservative sanitized bubble faith, and you are told to distrust anything that might contradict the conservative narrative.
This is why I say your (conservative narrative) claim that the media is left biased is wrong, it is status quo corporatist biased, ignoring the far right and the progressive left.
Enjoy

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(3)
Message 63 of 275 (798741)
02-05-2017 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
02-03-2017 1:58 PM


Re: anarchists and agent provocateurs
Here is some more information on the anarchists from USA today
quote:
What is a Black Bloc? The tactic that unleashed chaos in Berkeley
A University of California Berkeley spokesman says a small group turned protests violent, as Breitbart editor Milo Yiannopoulos came to speak. The spokesman added that it's not a proud day for the Berkeley campus. (Feb. 2) AP
Swarms of people dressed in black invaded what was supposed to be a peaceful demonstration against right-wing commentator Milo Yiannopoulous on Wednesday evening.
The group tossed smoke bombs, set fires and started fights on the University of California - Berkeley campus where Yiannopoulous was slated to speak. He never would.
The protest's organizers, the Berkeley Against Trump coalition, said the peaceful acts of the 1,500 demonstrators were marred by 50 to 75 anti-fascist Black Bloc protestors.
Outside of Berkeley, media outlets have linked Black Blocs to a number of modern protests, most recently in efforts opposing President Donald Trump. The Nation credits a Black Bloc protestor with punching alt-right leader Richard Spencer in the face on Trump's inauguration day. The Washington Post said Black Blocs were involved with violent protests in Washington, D.C. on inauguration day and in Portland following Trump's election win.
On Wednesday, Twitter users used the term in describing the protesters at Berkeley
Black Bloc, is a tactic, not a group. Those who practice it often wear black and cover their face with masks. They usually leave a wake of destruction.
In a 2015 article published in Police Magazine, author Kory Flowers said anarchists use protests such as the ones in Ferguson, Missouri, after the shooting death of Michael Brown, to launch their signature "chaos- and havoc-laden tactics." The article described Black Bloc strategy as "throngs of criminal anarchists all dress in black clothing in an effort to appear as a unified assemblage, giving the appearance of solidarity for the particular cause at hand."
Black Bloc gained attention in the United States in 1999 after violent protests at a meeting of the World Trade Organization in Seattle, according to a 2001 history of the tactic on the anarchist news website, A-Infos. The reason for the dress, wrote the history's author Daniel Dylan Young, was to "fend off police attacks, without being singled out as individuals for arrest and harassment later on."
Hundreds of people were arrested in the Seattle riots, which involved anarchists vandalizing businesses.
Young said Black Blocs spread in Europe in the 1980s as a "popular resistance to the police state and the New World Order." About 3,000 people engaged in a Black Bloc protest in 1987, according to A-Infos, when President Ronald Reagan visited Berlin.
Erica West, a Berkeley grad student and a member of the Berkeley Against Trump coalition, stressed the group doesn't support the violence.
"We didn't anticipate the violence," she said, adding she was disappointed that "the media attention has been skewed so heavily toward that."
You can also find information about Black Bloc on wikipedia
Anarchists oppose both right and left parties and want to destroy all government. In this they are closer to libertarians than progressives. See Anarchism on wikipedia
Enjoy

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 1:58 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Faith, posted 02-05-2017 10:35 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 69 of 275 (798797)
02-05-2017 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Faith
02-05-2017 10:35 AM


Re: anarchists and agent provocateurs
I hope that's true, because I'd rather not think the Left has turned violent and decided to destroy the nation because of Trump.
(1) it's not the left. Leftist organizations reject them. Nor are they Rightist. They do have some things in common with libertarians and Tea party extremists that want to tear down government, and they do have some things in common with Bannon who wants to destroy government from the inside.
(2) they've been around since the '80's, long before Trump.
But there are questions. It was an older man not wearing black who pepper-sprayed the young woman wearing the Trump hat (I wrongly said shirt earlier). Interestingly this happened right after she told an interviewer that she's sure the protestors are mostly nonviolent. This on video.
So that could be another agitator trying to cause violence, such as an agent provocateur looking to maximize impact by getting it on TV.
And there is still the question why these guys could get away with it. There should have been massive police action and arrests. So they're hiding their identity in black, you can still go after the guys in black when you see them hit or stomp somebody or start a fire etc, why didn't that happen?
Some were arrested. Not many people will confront violent people.
I've been watching Infowars ...
An excellent site to stay away from imho. Have you ever tried Democracy Now? They seem to me to be one of the last bastions of true journalism.
... (you can hold the ad hominems) and they have coverage of stuff you won't see elsewhere, including people who were at these events describing such things as that women were being especially targeted, and that pleas to the cops, at the inauguration protests anyway, got the answer that they were told by the President (Obama) not to intervene, even when a bloodied victim appealed for help. The "mainstream" media seems to shy away from such reports.
Have they shown how "water protector" protestors at the #NoDAPL protest were treated (maced, dogs, smokebombs, water canons in subzero temperatures, etc etc etc)? If not then they only show one narrative.
Another report was that a large number of people were kept from getting into the inauguration by a crowd of Black Lives Matter terrorists among others. Suggests that for whatever reason the police are not doing their jobs.
#BlackLivesMatter protestors are not terrorists, blocking roads with peaceful protests is not terrorism but fairly standard protest behavior.
But I'm sure you've turned up one important element in the problem at least.
Good, because it is only when the marginalized right can work with the marginalize left and middle that we will begin to heal this country. Recognize that the real problems are not between left and right so much as between oppressive wealth and oppressed poor. We can't fight the thumb pushing us down if we constantly fight each other.
Enjoy

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Faith, posted 02-05-2017 10:35 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Faith, posted 02-05-2017 5:52 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(3)
Message 71 of 275 (798901)
02-06-2017 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Faith
02-05-2017 5:52 PM


Re: anarchists and agent provocateurs
Funny. In spite of that claim that they are against government, I suspect there wouldn't have been any protests if Hillary had won.
Several protests were planned, especially related to wall street regulation, and war proliferation, and oil fracking, and pipelines, and black lives matter, and $15/hr minimum wage, and free tuition ... Bernie planned to hold rallies to promote these issues and hold Hillary\DNA to their purported commitment to the platform.
... because Hillary is republican-lite. She compares herself to Eisenhower (Nixon would be closer). She would maintain the status quo corporatist oligarchy.
Protest is a valuable tool in a functional democracy, because it demonstrates disagreement between government and the people. Freedom of speech. When we give up the right to protest the country is in grave danger.
Enjoy

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 74 of 275 (798924)
02-06-2017 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Taq
02-06-2017 12:04 PM


Don't confuse progressives with anarchists
If you can't see the street violence being a prime weapon on the part of the progs, you need better glasses.
The prime weapon is peaceful protest. Always has been.
The prime weapon of progressives is peaceful protest because that is the way we get the good results. Civil rights, antiwar, lesbian gay etc. This is based on MLK, who based it on Gandhi who based it on Thoreau (civil disobedience). Thoreau is so revered in India that when Walden Pond was going to be developed into an amusement park they raised funds to buy the land and turn it into a state park. (Damn foreigners interfering with American business rights to destroy everything).
Violent action is one of the weapons of Anarchists
quote:
Propaganda of the deed and illegalism
Main articles: Propaganda of the deed, Illegalism, and Expropriative anarchism
Italian-American anarchist Luigi Galleani. His followers, known as Galleanists, carried out a series of bombings and assassination attempts from 1914 to 1932 in what they saw as attacks on 'tyrants' and 'enemies of the people'
Some anarchists, such as Johann Most, advocated publicising violent acts of retaliation against counter-revolutionaries because "we preach not only action in and for itself, but also action as propaganda."[107] By the 1880s, people inside and outside the anarchist movement began to use the slogan, "propaganda of the deed" to refer to individual bombings, regicides, and tyrannicides. ...
It is also closer linked to Libertarian than progressive "weapons"
Libertarian education and freethought, See also: Anarchism and education and Freethought
Meanwhile the anarchist group involved in these protests -- the ones that spraypaint the red anarchist "A" symbol are members of Black Bloc
quote:
A black bloc is a tactic used by protestors, in which individuals wear black clothing, scarves, sunglasses, ski masks, motorcycle helmets with padding, or other face-concealing and face-protecting items.[1][2] The clothing is used to conceal marchers' identities and hinder criminal prosecution, by making it difficult to distinguish between participants. It is also used to protect their faces and eyes from items such as pepper-spray which law enforcement often uses. The tactic allows the group to appear as one large unified mass.[3] Black bloc participants are often associated with anarchism.
The tactic was developed in the 1980s in the European autonomist movement's protests against squatter evictions, nuclear power and restrictions on abortion, as well as other influences.[1] Black blocs gained broader media attention outside Europe during the 1999 Seattle WTO protests, when a black bloc damaged property of GAP, Starbucks, Old Navy, and other multinational retail locations in downtown Seattle.[1][4]
So you might have to be stupid, ignorant, insane or wicked ... or badly myopic ... to lump the violence of anarchists with the peaceful protesters ... just because main stream and right wing media tells you to.
and ignorance is not a crime, unless it is not a temporary condition.
Enjoy

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 109 of 275 (800196)
02-20-2017 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Modulous
02-20-2017 6:15 PM


Re: Conservatives are now suppressing Milo's free speech?
That's not all
quote:
Breitbart employees threaten exit over Yiannopoulos
Employees at Breitbart News are reportedly prepared to leave the company if controversial senior editor Milo Yiannopoulos is not fired.
Another senior editor at the publication told Washingtonian Monday that "at least a half dozen" employees are prepared to leave to organization because of remarks Yiannopoulos made about pedophilia that gained attention this weekend.
The fact of the matter is that there’s been so many things that have been objectionable about Milo over the last couple of years, quite frankly. This is something far more sinister, the senior editor said.
If the company isn’t willing to act, there are at least half a dozen people who are willing to walk out over it.
Even nutty right wing conspiracy folk think he's too far out there.
Enjoy

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 116 of 275 (800325)
02-22-2017 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Faith
02-21-2017 9:00 PM


these are a few of the things I deny most ...
I may have been a victim of fake news ...
Surreal. As I've said before Faith, the more one needs to deny things the less real one's world view becomes. Not just in science but politics and news. This is how I judge my opinions. There are things I do deny and some that I would like to deny but which would be pointless (like Trump being president).
Now I don't deny that fake news exists -- the Bowling Green Massacre and the Swedish 'Night of Terror' being examples.
The largest category of fake news is propaganda -- statements that tread lightly on the line of reality and gaslight us to cross over to a surreal world view. The Trump pogrom on the news (enemy of the people) is an example: if he can get us to distrust all news regardless of source or accuracy then that leaves us more vulnerable to further gaslighting
quote:
Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or members of a group, hoping to make targets question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, it attempts to destabilize the target and delegitimize the target's belief.[1][2]
Ingrid Bergman in the 1944 film Gaslight
Instances may range from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim. The term owes its origin to Gas Light, a 1938 play and 1944 film. It has been used in clinical and research literature.[3][4]
" ... it attempts to destabilize the target and delegitimize the target's belief." -- I think we can all agree that there is a lot of this going around, in speeches and in news stories.
Our job as American citizens is to sort through this barrage of (information + misinformation) to find validity.
There was no Bowling Green Massacre and there was no Swedish 'Night of Terror' ...
... fake news against Yiannopolous. I don't know yet.
Curiously I consider Yiannopolous to be fake news, I find it hard to believe the media persona shown is real, that it is not an act, that his purpose is to outrage you, gradually gaslighting you along, going further and further into a bizarre - surreal - world.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : .

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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 149 of 275 (800599)
02-26-2017 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by jar
02-26-2017 8:47 AM


Re: On the Indian question
There is now an assertion that the shooting of the Indians was not hate despite what the person said because he was drunk.
Well he was white and the victims were colored, so he must be innocent ...

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 156 of 275 (800648)
02-26-2017 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Faith
02-26-2017 3:47 PM


targets
His thinking they were Arabs makes them Arabs as far as the main point goes. That's all. Sheesh.
No Faith, his thinking they were Arabs makes him a fracking racist myopic ignorant idiot xenophobe gun happy dreg of American excrement that thinks that people of color are targets of convenience for shooting regardless of who they are, or what they do, and that perceived problems are solved by randomly shooting people.
And if you don't understand that I can tell you how I really feel

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Faith, posted 02-26-2017 3:47 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by Faith, posted 02-26-2017 4:22 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 179 of 275 (800741)
02-27-2017 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by Faith
02-26-2017 4:22 PM


Re: targets
Gee, sounds a lot like Black Lives Matter.
Yep. It sounds like "lives matter" so people should stop shooting people. When unarmed black lives are shot woth little excuse, those lives matter.
Message 160: I'm very glad to hear it, that is. if you understood properly that "cops and white people" are to be substituted for "people of color."
Only so long as it does not obscure the epidemic of black lives shootings.
Enjoy

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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Faith, posted 02-26-2017 4:22 PM Faith has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 239 of 275 (801261)
03-04-2017 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Faith
03-04-2017 3:25 PM


Re: the big picture (BLM)
You can address inequities for women, blacks, gays or any other group without Marxist Liberationism. I don't know if I can convince you that the term itself is the problem, it carries a ton of Marxist baggage.
Okay, so stop using it.
I am not away of ANY of the groups I'm involved with calling themselves Marxist Liberationists.
But you seem to find them everywhere.
Enjoy

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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Faith, posted 03-04-2017 3:25 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by Faith, posted 03-04-2017 5:46 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 244 of 275 (801339)
03-05-2017 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 240 by Faith
03-04-2017 5:46 PM


the real picture (BLM)
... started by three Marxist revolutionaries.
Again, I don't know any. Were these people classified as such by one of your websites or do they self-identify as Marxist revolutionaries - because that has not come up on any sites I've visited re BLM.
quote:
Black Lives Matter (BLM) is an international activist movement, originating in the African-American community, that campaigns against violence and perceived systemic racism toward black people. BLM regularly holds protests against police killings of black people and broader issues of racial profiling, police brutality, and racial inequality in the United States criminal justice system.
In 2013, the movement began with the use of the hashtag #BlackLivesMatter on social media, ... Since the Ferguson protests, participants in the movement have demonstrated against the deaths of numerous other African Americans by police actions or while in police custody. In the summer of 2015, Black Lives Matter activists became involved in the 2016 United States presidential election.[3] The originators of the hashtag and call to action, Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors, and Opal Tometi, expanded their project into a national network of over 30 local chapters between 2014 and 2016.[4] The overall Black Lives Matter movement, however, is a decentralized network and has no formal hierarchy.[5]
Let's go over that last sentence, because that is how I perceive the movement to be organized:
... The overall Black Lives Matter movement, however, is a decentralized network and has no formal hierarchy.
It started as a Facebook post that then became a hashtag on social media. People that go to BLM protests do so on their own will to protest against the deaths of African Americans by police actions or while in police custody. Protests are spontaneous, with notice going out on social media. It is people coming together to protest what they find to be unacceptable discriminatory behavior.
The only "violence" I've seen during the protests I have been involved with were perpetuated by white male confederate flag waving skinheads, with "all lives matter" banners and trucks rigged to give off foul exhaust aimed at the BLM marchers, but then I don't live in a hotbed of racial injustice or where there is a history of violent racism (ie south).
Now let's look at the "organizers" listed:
... The originators of the hashtag and call to action, Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors, and Opal Tometi, ...
quote:
Alicia Garza (born January 4, 1981) is an African American activist and editorial writer who lives in Oakland, California. She is of Mexican-American and African-American descent. She has organized around the issues of health, student services and rights, rights for domestic workers, ending police brutality, anti-racism, and violence against trans and gender non-conforming people of color. Her editorial writing has been published by The Guardian,[1] The Nation,[2] The Feminist Wire,[3] Rolling Stone, Huffington Post and truthout.org. She currently directs Special Projects at the National Domestic Workers Alliance. She also co-founded the Black Lives Matter movement.[4][5]
Garza, with Opal Tometi and Patrisse Cullors, birthed the Black Lives Matters movement. Garza is credited with inspiring the slogan when, after the July 2013 acquittal of George Zimmerman, she posted on Facebook: "Black people. I love you. I love us. Our lives matter, Black Lives Matter" which Cullors then shared with the hashtag #BlackLivesMatter. Garza's organization Black Lives Matter was spurred on by the deaths of black people by police in recent media and racial disparities within the U.S. criminal justice system. She was also struck by the similarities of Trayvon Martin to her younger brother, feeling that it could have been him killed instead.[6] Garza led the 2015 Freedom Ride to Ferguson, organized by Cullors and Darnell Moore that launched the building of BlackLivesMatter chapters across the United States.[7] Garza self-identifies as a queer woman, and her spouse is biracial and transgender; Garza draws on all of these experiences in her organizing and activism.[8]
No mention of her being a "Marxist revolutionary" or being a member of any Marxist organization.
quote:
Patrisse Cullors (born 1983) is an African American artist and activist from Los Angeles, an advocate for criminal justice reform in Los Angeles and a co-founder of the Black Lives Matter.
Along with community organizers and friends Alicia Garza and Opal Tometi, Cullors founded Black Lives Matter. The three started the movement because of frustration over George Zimmerman's acquittal in the shooting of Trayvon Martin. Cullors wrote the hashtag #BlackLivesMatter to corroborate Garza's use of the phrase in making a Facebook post about the Martin case.[4] Cullors further described her impetus for pushing for African American rights as stemming from her 19-year-old brother being brutalized during imprisonment Los Angeles County jails.[5]
No mention of her being a "Marxist revolutionary" or being a member of any Marxist organization.
quote:
Opal Tometi is a New York-based Nigerian-American writer, strategist and community organizer. Tometi is a co-founder of the Black Lives Matter.[1] She is the Executive Director at BAJI (Black Alliance for Just Immigration). Tometi collaborates with staff and communities in Los Angeles, Phoenix, New York, Oakland, Washington D.C. and communities throughout the Southern states. Tometi's work has been published by The Huffington Post.[2]
Tometi joined with Patrisse Cullors and Alicia Garza to give shape to the Black Lives Matter group. Tometi is credited with setting up the social media aspects of the movement.[4]
No mention of her being a "Marxist revolutionary" or being a member of any Marxist organization.
Then there is this:
quote:
A Herstory of the #BlackLivesMatter Movement by Alicia Garza
I created #BlackLivesMatter with Patrisse Cullors and Opal Tometi, two of my sisters, as a call to action for Black people after 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was post-humously placed on trial for his own murder and the killer, George Zimmerman, was not held accountable for the crime he committed. It was a response to the anti-Black racism that permeates our society and also, unfortunately, our movements.
Black Lives Matter is an ideological and political intervention in a world where Black lives are systematically and intentionally targeted for demise. It is an affirmation of Black folks’ contributions to this society, our humanity, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression.
The rest of the article is well worth reading. There is no mention of being aligned in any way with Marxism.
Curiously the ONLY mention I find is on extreme right wing sites that associate BLM with the Freedom Road Socialist Organization in order to tar BLM with the Marxist brush. This is typical of right wing sites, imho. Calling someone a Marxist doesn't make them one.
So I find it very strange that not one liberal or leftist group or website that I could find mentions any such connection between BLM and Marxism. That connection seems to exist only inside the right wing bubble.
Furthermore, even IF they were Marxist revolutionaries, that doesn't make the movement or anyone else involved Marxist. It is a civil rights movement.
Enjoy
ps - does the tan text help?
Edited by RAZD, : .
Edited by RAZD, : .

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Faith, posted 03-04-2017 5:46 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by Modulous, posted 03-05-2017 11:04 AM RAZD has replied

  
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