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Author Topic:   The Disgusting Berkeley Riots
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 275 (798528)
02-03-2017 5:40 AM


Riots are bad.
I'm on board with the idea that riots and violence are bad. I don't condone them.
But Coyote specifically and directly, and perhaps Faith more indirectly seems to be suggesting that some "opposition" speech was missed that ought to have been heard. I am really curious about what it is the Milo Yiannopoulos has to say that we all missed the opportunity to hear. I ask that question because history does not allow me to accept without question purity of motives. If anyone wants me to cite some history, I'd be happy to oblige.
I'm also amused at the very low level of action that is required to draw folks to call other folks Nazi's. Apparently promoting ideas regarding white supremacy does not invoke such ideas, while protesting against the promotion of those ideas is right up there with operating ovens for humans.
I'm also amused by the association of Berkeley Republicans with this crackpot.
In short. I smell hypocrisy this morning, and the smell is not coming entirely from the west coast.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 9:34 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(7)
Message 29 of 275 (798586)
02-03-2017 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Faith
02-03-2017 9:34 AM


Re: Riots are bad (but it depends on who's rioting).
I see. Yes, just accuse him of "white supremacy" and there you have your clever Lefty propaganda to turn HIM into a Nazi.
IBut I am well aware of the propaganda spread by Yiannopoulos. I note that your response to me about the content is just to provide a video without any summary. I am well aware of that he mouths hate speech. But apparently, that's cool with alt-right leaning folk.
Example stuff published under Milo's byline at Breitbart
quote:
The solution to online 'harassment' is simple: Women should log off
Birth control makes women unattractive and crazy
Would you rather your child had feminism or cancer?
Gay rights have made us dumber, it's time to get back in the closet
Apparently, this kind of crap is what you consider "conservative". No Thanks.
The riots are giving Milo positive press he would never have gotten elsewhere. Beyond being wrong, the riots and destruction were a tactical error as well. However, attempts to blame the university are misguided. It might even be that the students themselves are not the ones who committed the unruly acts.
Eh? Now you seem to have lurched from a suspiciously fascistic suggestion that perhaps "some" people,
To be clear, my suspicion is about the motives of you and Coyote. And by when I mention "history" I am referring to folks posting history here. I apologize for my lack of directness, but I am trying to be less confrontational this year. I don't trust you to tell me why Milo should have been allowed to speak because I've never seen you stand up for anything but alt-right speech.
Eh? Violent attacks intended to silence a political opinion are a "low level" action that shouldn't be compared to the Nazis, cuz why?
Someone has already addressed this question, and I also addressed it in my post, so I'll be brief. Suppression of free speech is among the smaller things the Nazi's were guilty of. The Nazi's murdered 6 million jews and also millions of other people they considered undesirables. On their way to doing that, they scapegoated minorities for Germany's real problems in order to make it easier to exterminate folk. It would have been a bloody good idea for folks in Germany to have protested that kind of speech, but protesting did not win the day there. And then you turn around and accuse folks of being Nazi's for protesting hate speech?
Whether or not you agree with my description, surely you can see the irony in what I describe.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 9:34 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 6:47 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 32 of 275 (798610)
02-03-2017 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Faith
02-03-2017 6:47 PM


Re: Riots are bad (but it depends on who's rioting).
How is Yiannopolous spreading "propaganda?" He's not.
In fact, I've quoted him doing just that.
. He makes some rather crude jokes about feminism that I don't get but I'd be inclined just to ignore someone who talks like that.
Ignore the offensive stuff, eh? That's pretty convenient, isn't it?
The people who go to Trump events and I guess also Yiannopolous are completely nonviolent
Except that we've posted evidence here that people who go to Trump events do sometimes assault other folks. What is to be gained from this lie?
But to attack people physically for ANY reason is indefensible.
I did not defend any such thing and nor did anyone else in this thread. Why lie about that?
My point here is that you have eroded the term fascism to the point where it covers calling a xenophobe a xenophobe. At that point, the term "fascist" is not much of an insult.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 6:47 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 7:03 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 35 of 275 (798617)
02-03-2017 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Faith
02-03-2017 7:03 PM


Re: Riots are bad (but it depends on who's rioting).
have to acknowledge that I also don't like the jokes Yiannopolous made. I don't like talking that way about any class of people. But I strenuously object to the Leftist reaction of just suppressing it as "hate speech,
Calling it "hate speech", particularly when the label is accurate, is just more speech.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 7:03 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Faith, posted 02-04-2017 10:40 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 47 of 275 (798675)
02-04-2017 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Faith
02-04-2017 10:40 AM


Re: Riots are bad (but it depends on who's rioting).
No it's politically motivated speech intended to intimidate and suppress, as is all Political Correctness. Thought police. Shut people up
Wow.
In short, in the gospel according to Faith, it is okay to insult people, but if their reaction is to shame the speaker, well that constitutes fascism. That despite the fact that labeling them is at most just another insult. Your express this "truth" over and over, and it never stops sounding or being the height of stupidity.
Yes, the speech is politically motivated. So was the speech that speech targetted. If being insulted makes you shut up, then perhaps you'd better develop a tougher skin before you start insulting others.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Faith, posted 02-04-2017 10:40 AM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 275 (798694)
02-04-2017 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Faith
02-04-2017 5:38 PM


No, he wants an apology for a LIE because he is not a white supremacist.
He slanders folks wholesale and unapologetically, yet expects an apology for what you considers slander. That is hypocrisy. Is it really that hard to grasp what folks are saying?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Faith, posted 02-04-2017 5:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 02-04-2017 6:51 PM NoNukes has replied
 Message 55 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-04-2017 6:57 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 54 of 275 (798697)
02-04-2017 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Faith
02-04-2017 6:51 PM


Offense is not slander
You draw the line quite arbitrarily, Faith. The only distinction is that Milo applies his offense to an entire group of people. People rightly respond back to Milo as an individual. How else could it be, Faith?
And of course the truth is a perfectly good defense against slander.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 02-04-2017 6:51 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Faith, posted 02-05-2017 1:34 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 60 of 275 (798705)
02-04-2017 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Tanypteryx
02-04-2017 7:56 PM


Re: Kellyanne Conway caller her critics "haters"
deleted in view of warning.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-04-2017 7:56 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 62 of 275 (798728)
02-05-2017 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Faith
02-05-2017 1:34 AM


Offense may be definable as an opinion perhaps; but slander is a lie about the person
What you call slander is equally definable as opinion and the offense is equally well seen as a lie.
You are doing your best to distinguish between the two, but what you are demonstrating is your ability to give one person a pass even after acknowledging the unsuitability of what he says. What you have not done in several attempts is meaningfully separate offense from offense.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Faith, posted 02-05-2017 1:34 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Faith, posted 02-05-2017 10:04 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 119 of 275 (800365)
02-22-2017 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Faith
02-22-2017 1:38 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
After watching some of the press conference given by Yiannopolous I understand that he didn't mean to be extolling pedophilia,
"didn't mean to be extolling pedophilia?"
Did you read or hear Milo's own apology on the subject? He admits that his past abuse as a young child left him confused and in denial about whether such activities were abuse. At the time he made the statements apparently he did actually believe them. Now he recognizes that the abuse harmed him and produced self-destructive behavior. So yeah, he did actually mean to validate man-boy sex in at least some contexts and now regrets having done so. Given that, what does "didn't mean to be extolling pedophilia?" mean?
Milo says now that he has sorted out the fact that he was victimized although he denies having been a victim. I think it is entirely possible that after doing some healing he now knows better.
There are some insincere things in his apology, as before it is over he starts blaming folks for reporting his past words. Milo does not agree with everything the press said about him, although he was unclear about what they got wrong. Mostly he is questioning the motives of someone for posting his words, but to my mind that kind of blame deflecting is asinine.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 1:38 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(5)
Message 123 of 275 (800378)
02-22-2017 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Faith
02-22-2017 3:23 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
Well, he took it back, and I'll leave it at that for now, until I can listen to more.
So retractions mean something when you need to forgive someone, but they mean nothing when the New York Times does them.
I have an inclination to assemble a package of "Faith's greatest hits" from the inconsistent stuff you post here. I expect that the collection will be so full or irony as to be magnetic.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 3:23 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 3:58 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 125 of 275 (800381)
02-22-2017 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Faith
02-22-2017 3:58 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
You have a terrible logic and context problem, which I've commented on many times before.
Yes, that is indeed your standard response when I've caught you in some manner of idiocy or hypocrisy.
As long as we are talking about irony, let's discuss how you dismiss what you watch on TV news or anything that is not pro Trump, but readily accept random videos on youtube because they happen to support what you believe. Who does that and isn't a moron?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 3:58 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by PaulK, posted 02-22-2017 4:16 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 127 of 275 (800383)
02-22-2017 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by PaulK
02-22-2017 4:16 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
NN writes:
Who does that and isn't a moron?
Maybe the sort of person who tries to pass off her guesses as facts ?
Yes. Perhaps my desire to view all posters as honest is betraying me.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by PaulK, posted 02-22-2017 4:16 PM PaulK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 4:57 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 129 of 275 (800388)
02-22-2017 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Faith
02-22-2017 4:57 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
so I'll keep it simple: the only thing you've ever "caught" me in is your own false logic and ridiculous inability to grasp context, nothing to do with me.
Is it still your position that you are the victim of fake news with respect to Milo?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 4:57 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 9:11 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 131 of 275 (800392)
02-22-2017 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Faith
02-22-2017 9:11 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
Message 118, first phrase, Sentence #2
In that message, you claimed that Milo did not intentionally advocate sex with 13 year-olds. Is that still your opinion?
There was no basis for your initial conclusion of fake news. You just assumed that until one or more of us presented evidence that you were wrong. After reading the news conference, and reading it poorly, you jumped to another conclusion (Milo did not mean to advocate) from which you had to be disabused. Your final action was to promise to re-read, but I have yet to see any evidence that after three tries you have reached a proper conclusion based on the facts.
Keep continuing to argue that I never catch you in foolishness. But the record demonstrates otherwise Ms. "King James lived a blameless Life."
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 9:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 10:46 PM NoNukes has replied

  
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