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Author Topic:   The $900 billion per year U.S. military budget
Faith
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Posts: 26287
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 31 of 69 (800465)
02-24-2017 3:14 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Theodoric
02-23-2017 7:22 PM


Re: education
Some Statistics

How Do Homeschool Students Do At College?
A recent study published in July 2010, by Dr. Michael Cogan, studied homeschool students at one Mid-west college. While this small study won't have the reaching impact as a larger study, here are his findings.

The homeschool students had a slightly higher retention rate, 88.6% compared to the counterpart at 87.6%.
There was a higher graduation rate from homeschooled students (66.7% compared to the counterpart at 57.5%).
The homeschooled students came in with a higher ACT score (25.0 compared to 14.7).

Slightly higher Grade Point Averages were held through-out the college years by the homeschooled students. (Fourth year previosuly homeschooled college students had a 3.46 average compared to the previously traditionally schooled students at 3.16).

The article goes on to say that homeschooling parents also have a higher degree of education themselves than average.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Theodoric, posted 02-23-2017 7:22 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by PaulK, posted 02-24-2017 3:26 AM Faith has responded
 Message 36 by Theodoric, posted 02-24-2017 2:34 PM Faith has not yet responded
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PaulK
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Posts: 13113
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


(6)
Message 32 of 69 (800467)
02-24-2017 3:26 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Faith
02-24-2017 3:14 AM


Re: education
An understanding of what the evidence does and does not show might help.

Homeschooling is likely to vary considerably based on the abilities of the parents and of the materials they choose.

The point of regulation would be to address the lower end of the spectrum where outcomes are felt to be unacceptably poor.

But these statistics tell us very little about that. The fact that they only look at homeschooled students that make it to college means that they aren't even counting the underperformers. Even the other statistics on the page only deal with averages rather than looking specifically at the bottom end where the need for regulation - if there is one - would be found.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 02-24-2017 3:14 AM Faith has responded

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jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 33 of 69 (800485)
02-24-2017 6:54 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by PaulK
02-24-2017 3:26 AM


Re: education
Plus we can look at some of the so called "Home School" textbooks like the jokes produced by A Beka Books or listen to comments such as Falwell's teach both sides and let the students choose bullshit.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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ringo
Member
Posts: 13628
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 34 of 69 (800499)
02-24-2017 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Faith
02-23-2017 1:03 PM


Re: Not for the media
Faith writes:

I see so you are quoting the Hindu scripture against western civilization.


I didn't say anything "against" western civilization. I just brought it down to reality from the lofty pedestal you placed it on.

Faith writes:

Polytheists of course know better than Christians.


Not necessarily. And most Christians know better than you.
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Faith
Member
Posts: 26287
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 35 of 69 (800509)
02-24-2017 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by PaulK
02-24-2017 3:26 AM


Re: education
As I understand it the state determines what materials are to be taught to homeschoolers, defines standards etc. The parents may have some leeway but I don't think they have a lot.
This message is a reply to:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5765
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


(1)
Message 36 of 69 (800512)
02-24-2017 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Faith
02-24-2017 3:14 AM


Re: education
These statistics have no bearing on the quality of homeschooling. It cherry picks those that went to college. Those would be the higher performers. Now lets find stats on how many actually go to college or test scores of all homeschooled students compared to traditionally schooled kids.

This stuff you posted is worthless in supporting your assertions.
Want to try again?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5765
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


(1)
Message 37 of 69 (800514)
02-24-2017 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Faith
02-24-2017 3:14 AM


Re: education
Looks like your source either lied or is incompetent.

Here is the original data from Dr. Cogan.
http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ893891.pdf
Here are slides with the data.
http://i.bnet.com/blogs/homeschool.pdf

quote:
The homeschooled students came in with a higher ACT score (25.0 compared to 14.7).

Not correct. It is actually 26.5 compared to 25.0

The author of the study himself warns people not to read to much into his study.

quote:
Still, the results should be carefully considered in regards to this particular institution as the study took place at one institution with a small sample size (N=76).

One or two students could have skewed the results. Sample size is way to small to make any conclusions whatsoever.
He tries to hide where the study was done, but his description matches perfectly with St. Thomas University in St Paul, MN where he is a professor. So these are not average students. St Thomas is a fairly exclusive Catholic University. Tuition is about $40,000 per year.
http://www.collegecalc.org/...nesota/university-of-st-thomas

Lies, upon lies, upon bullshit.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 13113
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 38 of 69 (800515)
02-24-2017 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Faith
02-24-2017 1:41 PM


Re: education
Maybe so, although if enforced to any degree that would already amount to regulation. And if there already is regulation it would be far better to see what additional regulation is proposed and why instead of posting statistics that are likely irrelevant.
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NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9914
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 39 of 69 (800519)
02-24-2017 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Faith
02-24-2017 3:14 AM


Re: education
Slightly higher Grade Point Averages were held through-out the college years by the homeschooled students. (Fourth year previosuly homeschooled college students had a 3.46 average compared to the previously traditionally schooled students at 3.16).

Most likely because home schooled students get screened heavily before the get admitted to any college. In particular, schools screen students using the ACT and SAT exams, so apparently higher scores are required for admission of those folk who often have fewer ECAs and sports opportunities. It you want to make your case, you would tell me about the admission rates for home schooled children.

How about if you compare the scores to the portion of the student body that were not admitted on athletic scholarship?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


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caffeine
Member
Posts: 1342
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 40 of 69 (800521)
02-24-2017 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by NoNukes
02-24-2017 3:42 PM


Re: education
It you want to make your case, you would tell me about the admission rates for home schooled children.

Because nobody seems to have counted! I just wasted an hour of my life trying to find this out, but cannot find any sign that anyone has figured out a way to compare the proportion of home-schooled students that attend college with the general population. How hard can this be, am I missing something? I could understand if no one cared, but there has been a lot of research conducted on homeschooling - just none to adress this specific question.

Things I have discovered - there do not seem to be big differences on most measures of average academic performances between those schooled at home and those schooled at institutions, but the homeschoolers have greater variance. The education level of the parents has a much bigger impact on the final outcome, which makes sense.


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jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 41 of 69 (800522)
02-24-2017 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by caffeine
02-24-2017 4:35 PM


Re: education
Because nobody seems to have counted!

Some basics about the US.

There is no list of who is a US citizen.

There is no list of who is in the US.

There is no list of who should be in school.

There is no list of who is being home schooled.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3825
Joined: 09-26-2002
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 42 of 69 (800535)
02-24-2017 10:19 PM


Things totally off-topic - Short term closure coming soon
The topic theme is the U.S. military budget.

All this education stuff is interesting, but it deserves a topic of its own. If you're the one to start this topic, please also link back to this topic.

Probably closing in about 15 minutes.

Adminnemooseus


Or something like that.

Replies to this message:
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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3825
Joined: 09-26-2002
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 43 of 69 (800537)
02-24-2017 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Adminnemooseus
02-24-2017 10:19 PM


Re: Things totally off-topic - Short term closure coming soon
Short term closure happened 1 hour later.

If this didn't happen, more totally off-topic replies would happen.

Adminnemooseus

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Change ID.


Or something like that.

This message is a reply to:
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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3825
Joined: 09-26-2002
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 44 of 69 (800546)
02-25-2017 4:07 PM


Reopened - Remember the topic theme now
The theme is the U.S. military budget.

Adminnemooseus


Or something like that.

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2705
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 45 of 69 (800550)
02-25-2017 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by jar
02-24-2017 5:18 PM


Re: education
There is no list of who should be in school.

There is no list of who is being home schooled.

Really, its illegal in my country to deny a child basic education ie primary school, you get notified by the goverment when your child is old enough to attend school so you enroll him. so i assume we have a list lol.

There is no list of who is a US citizen.

you dont have something like an EMO, roughly translated uniform ID number, you get it at birth its your date of birth + a number for women or men i think its 50 and 60, then it depends on witch birth you where that day for the last 3 numbers. You get it at birth, and you need one for any contract to be valid, so i assume anyone who becomes a cittezen gets one too.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by jar, posted 02-24-2017 5:18 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by jar, posted 02-25-2017 6:09 PM frako has responded

    
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