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Author Topic:   What's the difference between Islam and Radical Islam?
Faith
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Posts: 26449
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 121 of 146 (801998)
03-11-2017 3:10 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by Dr Adequate
03-11-2017 2:59 AM


OK, I accept your definition of Allah
OK, I think there are good arguments that it's the name of the moon god, which Mohammed elevated to the status of universal Creator God, throwing out all the other gods in the pantheon, and it's hard to see how a god that was originally one of the pantheon, even if the main god, got the title "THE god," but I'll give that up and accept the linguistic derivation.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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 Message 120 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-11-2017 2:59 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26449
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 122 of 146 (801999)
03-11-2017 4:36 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by Modulous
03-10-2017 10:09 PM


Re: The Way It Really Is
Not according to the Bible

According to the Quran Allah is not part of a pantheon, he is the One God the God of Abraham and Moses and Jesus.

He can't be because there is no similarity between them.

The thing is, there are written histories of how Mohammed created Islam that show how he took the moon god called Allah, main god in the pantheon at Mecca, and elevated it to the status of one true God on the level of the Biblical God, despite the fact that there are no similarities between it and the Biblical God.

The Biblical God is shown throughout the Bible to be the one and only God, and this is argued over and over and over because He is being revealed as THE God in a world of polytheistic and human-sacrificing religions. God chose Abraham out of that environment to become the first of a new nation of followers of the one true God among the heathen polytheistic nations. There is no written history apart from the Bible about these events.

Paul needed a way to talk to the polytheistic and intellectual Greeks about Christ in a peculiarly inhospitable environment. He may have thought the "unknown god" they included in their pantheon represented the Creator God, that's not clear.

So did Mohammed.

OK. (Speaking of course of the moon god Allah and not of an "unknown god" which was a Greek deity.)

Even as "the god" Allah appears as merely the main one of many.

Not according to the Quran.

Yes the Quran does treat Allah as the universal Creator God. However, again, there are written histories that show he was originally one god among many at Mecca before Mohammed decided to model him after the Biblical God and get rid of the polytheism that had formerly been the religion.

It was the pagan Arabs who worshiped the pantheon he wanted to convert to the one God, but not to the God of Judaism or Christianity but to this new one he got from "the angel Gabriel" he believed was superior to both.

Not according to the Quran.

True, but the pre-Islamic history of the region is known so it is known that the model for the God of Islam was the moon god Allah of the original polytheistic religion.

And the symbol of Islam, the crescent moon, retains that original derivation.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Modulous, posted 03-10-2017 10:09 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 26449
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 123 of 146 (802001)
03-11-2017 5:39 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by PaulK
03-11-2017 2:09 AM


Polytheistic origins of Islam
Not according to the Bible. "El" may have had other meanings among the pagan nations but in the Bible El is the generic name for the One Creator God

As I said, there is an exact parallel.

Even if there was a vague memory of the one true God in the polytheistic religions, He was not worshipped in any special way apart from all the other gods, was barely above them at all, being at best the No. one god in a pantheon. The Bible for instance is full of references to the gods of the surrounding nations, the ones the people actually followed, and "El" hardly figures at all among them. Dagon gets thrown to the floor by the presence of the Ark of God, for instance, Molech receives the sacrifice of children, which even seduced the Jews.

The whole point of the Bible was to reintroduce the true God whose memory had been lost after the Flood, while Satan who had won the right to rule humanity --because of Adam and Eve's disobedience of God -- installed his demon followers as the gods of the nations.

Some retained the memory: Shem was still alive in Abraham's time, but Abraham himself came from a family of polytheists. Of course he know of the true God, whose voice he recognized when he was called to leave Ur and go to Canaan. But as the history of Abraham's family is followed through Genesis, pagan idols still show up in the possession of the family, for instance Jacob's wife Rachel.

Those were the gods of the people of the region at the time, not the Creator God. It took a while for Jehovah to become the center of worship even in Abraham's family. Even after He is more or less worshipped as one and only God we find the people of Israel accepting a golden calf idol as their god -- soon after leaving Egypt. Idolatry dies hard.

So, I don't think El figured much in the pagan religions. (There were some true believers of course: Job is an example.)

When will you learn that making poorly-considered excuses is not a winning debating strategy ?

?

I suppose you mean the "us" in Genesis: "Let us make man...?

No, I don't mean that, or not only that.

?

Perhaps you get this stuff from the "scholars" you put above the Bible?

By which you mean I trust real scholars more than I trust the men YOU put above the Bible.

Believers put themselves beneth the Bible, treating it as authority and not criticizing it as the "scholars" do. All the men whose views of the Bible I trust put themselves beneath the Bible in the same way.

They will always lead you astray. Many of the most famous of them don't believe in much of it. How can you find truth that way? Truth is only found by believing the Bible, period. The scholars will only mislead you.

An unprejudiced view is a far better way to find the truth than the gross prejudice of dogmatic belief.

But the scholars are demonstrably prejudiced against the revelation of the Bible. The Bible is presented to us as a revelation of God Himself by God Himself, and believing it is what a person must do with such a revelation. Jesus said it: "Repent and believe." You don't criticize God's word if you have any respect to it AS God's word.

And the fact that you choose lies and slander to fight against the truths found by scholars only demonstrates that you are no Christian.

Well, as they say, you are entitled to your opinion. In this world anyway.

And we know that when the book of Romans told you to obey the law of the secular authorities you appealed to a contradictory passage that you never found and probably doesn't exist to claim a loophole. Your belief in the Bible is not all you would have us believe.

I had no trouble finding the passage in question that I recall. It's in Acts 5:29:

Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Paul needed a way to talk to the polytheistic and intellectual Greeks about Christ in a peculiarly inhospitable environment. He may have thought the "unknown god" they included in their pantheon represented the Creator God, that's not clear.

So your only counter is that Paul might have been lying. Do you really want to say that ?

if that's the only option then he had to know it represented the Creator God, but I don't call making use of a teaching aid to be lying. It's certainly true that they needed to be introduced to the true Creator God because they DIDN'T know Him.

Yes they did. [That is Judaism and Christianity were sources Mohammed included in the Koran] It was the pagan Arabs who worshiped the pantheon he wanted to convert to the one God, but not to the God of Judaism or Christianity but to this new one he got from "the angel Gabriel" he believed was superior to both.

Which would make perfect sense if he was speaking for the real creator God of Abraham and Jesus as he claimed. And if the Allah of the Arabs was a distorted memory of that God - which the parallels with El hardly discourage - your argument goes to nothing.

Allah has nothing in common with the Biblical God, though yes, Mohammed may have viewed Allah as representing him. But as I argue above, the true God, even if vaguely remembered, was overshadowed by the idol gods in the polytheistic pre-biblical and pre-Islamic religions. And we do know that Allah was specifically identified as the moon god, which isn't much evidence that anyone regarded it as more than an idol among idols.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by PaulK, posted 03-11-2017 2:09 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by jar, posted 03-11-2017 6:45 AM Faith has responded
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jar
Member
Posts: 29447
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 124 of 146 (802004)
03-11-2017 6:45 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by Faith
03-11-2017 5:39 AM


Re: Polytheistic origins of Islam
Faith writes:

Even if there was a vague memory of the one true God in the polytheistic religions, He was not worshipped in any special way apart from all the other gods, was barely above them at all, being at best the No. one god in a pantheon.

First Faith, the polytheistic religions are much much older than any of the monotheistic religions.

Second, the Judaic God was not a the only God even in the Bible. The existence of other Gods is affirmed throughout the Old and much of the new Testament. The three Judaic religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam worship only one God and it is the very same God.

However that says nothing about the existence of other Gods.

The rest of your post is simply made up stuff that gets marketed by the apologists but with no real Biblical support.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Faith, posted 03-11-2017 5:39 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Faith, posted 03-11-2017 9:45 AM jar has responded

  
PaulK
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Posts: 13228
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 125 of 146 (802008)
03-11-2017 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by Faith
03-11-2017 5:39 AM


Re: Polytheistic origins of Islam
quote:

Even if there was a vague memory of the one true God in the polytheistic religions, He was not worshipped in any special way apart from all the other gods, was barely above them at all, being at best the No. one god in a pantheon.

Just like El.

quote:

The Bible for instance is full of references to the gods of the surrounding nations, the ones the people actually followed, and "El" hardly figures at all among them.

Because the various peoples took their own patrons from the shared pantheon - and that includes the Israelites. On the road to monotheism they conflated their patron god with El.

To your first question mark I remind you that your attempted objection was in fact a point of agreement. As you certainly ought to have noticed if you actually thought about it.

To your second I invite you to investigate the parallels between the Biblical texts and the pagan Canaanite descriptions of the Divine Court of El.

quote:

Believers put themselves beneth the Bible, treating it as authority and not criticizing it as the "scholars" do. All the men whose views of the Bible I trust put themselves beneath the Bible in the same way.

Obviously they do not and their rejection of scholarship is proof. A deeper understanding of the Bible is obviously not a threat to anyone who truly respects it.

quote:

But the scholars are demonstrably prejudiced against the revelation of the Bible. The Bible is presented to us as a revelation of God Himself by God Himself, and believing it is what a person must do with such a revelation. Jesus said it: "Repent and believe." You don't criticize God's word if you have any respect to it AS God's word.

By which you show that you place unBiblical dogma ahead of the Bible.

quote:

Well, as they say, you are entitled to your opinion. In this world anyway

It seems pretty obvious that anyone who would stoop to evil means to suppress knowledge of the Bible is not a Christian. If you wish to argue otherwise it would probably be amusing.

quote:

I had no trouble finding the passage in question that I recall. It's in Acts 5:29

Which refers specifically to preaching about Jesus in contravention of the commands of the Sanhedrin (rather than a specific law). And since you don't have a command - or even anything that really suggests any reason to interfere with a purely secular affair it isn't exactly adequate.

quote:

if that's the only option then he had to know it represented the Creator God, but I don't call making use of a teaching aid to be lying

Saying that the Unknown God is the God he preaches would certainly be a lie if he did not believe it (Acts 17:23)

quote:

Allah has nothing in common with the Biblical God

You mean apart from pretty much everything in the Bible ?

quote:

But as I argue above, the true God, even if vaguely remembered, was overshadowed by the idol gods in the polytheistic pre-biblical and pre-Islamic religions.

Which completely ignores Muhammad's contribution.

quote:

And we do know that Allah was specifically identified as the moon god, which isn't much evidence that anyone regarded it as more than an idol among idols.


In fact we do not know that. What we do know is that Muhammad's Allah is certainly not a moon god - and that Muhammad's Allah owes far more to Judaism and Christianity than the pagan gods of the Arabs.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Faith, posted 03-11-2017 5:39 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26449
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 126 of 146 (802015)
03-11-2017 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by jar
03-11-2017 6:45 AM


Re: Polytheistic origins of Islam
Even if there was a vague memory of the one true God in the polytheistic religions, He was not worshipped in any special way apart from all the other gods, was barely above them at all, being at best the No. one god in a pantheon.

First Faith, the polytheistic religions are much much older than any of the monotheistic religions.

According to secular history, but I follow Biblical history in which the first people knew the true God intimately, but then disobeyed Him and lost their spiritual connection with Him. At the same time their disobedience gave Satan, who had seduced them into disobedience, the right to become "the prince of this world" and rule over humanity in our fallen state. His demons became the "gods" of the many religions that sprang up, initially no doubt, from the human point of view with an eye to recapturing humanity's lost relationship with God, but rapidly devolving into worship of demons, with various kinds of sacrifices including human sacrifice. Some tribes of humanity acquired a lot of gods, for example India with something like 300 IIRC. the Roman and Greek pantheons were pretty impressive too. And of course Mecca had a fair number.

As I say above, some people retained some memory of the true God and here and there real saints also continued to exist, such as Job. But humanity needed rescuing from this state of affairs, needed rescuing from bondage to Satan, and from the sins that perpetuated Satan's rulership, so God promised to send a Savior for that purpose, the Anointed One or Messiah. He was first promised to Adam and Eve right after the Fall, and then the promise was repeated throughout the history of the Old Testament by various prophets of the Israelites. Then He came, and the New Testament is all about Him.

And now back to secular history:

Second, the Judaic God was not a the only God even in the Bible.

Oh yes He is; this is very clear in the Bible.

The existence of other Gods is affirmed throughout the Old and much of the new Testament.

And revealed to be demons, the demons who form all the pantheons of the polytheistic religions. There is only one God with a capital G, the Uncreated eternal God, but billions of "gods" with a lower-case g, who are the angels who fell with Satan and follow him, one third of the angels originally in heaven.

The three Judaic religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam worship only one God and it is the very same God.

Not unless God chose the Jews AND told Muslims to kill them wherever they find them; Not unless Jesus is the Son of God AND God doesn't have a Son; also Miriam is the sister of Moses in the Bible and Mary is the mother of Jesus who lived about 1400 years later than Miriam, but in the Koran Mary is confused with Miriam. The differences among the three religions are quite clear to anyone who compares their writings.

However that says nothing about the existence of other Gods.
The rest of your post is simply made up stuff that gets marketed by the apologists but with no real Biblical support.

Again, the only other gods in the Bible are the demon "gods" who are tribal gods who have ruled over humanity since the Fall. They are also the demons who can possess people, at least oppress people, probably cause some kinds of physical and psychological problems, can confer or stimulate psychic powers, sometimes manifest as angels, or as the various apparitions of the Catholic "Mary" -- "Our Lady of Fatima," or of Medjugorje etc; work for witches and shamans, impersonate dead people, haunt houses, are probably the fabricators of UFO phenomena, and so on and so forth.

Jesus saves us from them.

There is only one true God in the Bible.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by jar, posted 03-11-2017 6:45 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by jar, posted 03-11-2017 10:10 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 132 by Modulous, posted 03-11-2017 10:54 AM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29447
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 127 of 146 (802018)
03-11-2017 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Faith
03-11-2017 9:45 AM


Re: Polytheistic origins of Islam
Faith writes:

According to secular history, but I follow Biblical history in which the first people knew the true God intimately, but then disobeyed Him and lost their spiritual connection with Him.

Again Faith, both the Bible and reality say you are wrong.

No one doubts that you follow that fantasy, it is rather the issue that neither what is actually written in the Bible or what actually happened support your position.

Faith writes:

There is only one true God in the Bible.

So you claim but unfortunately what is actually written in the Bible stories shows you are wrong.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Modulous
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Posts: 7446
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 128 of 146 (802019)
03-11-2017 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Faith
03-11-2017 4:36 AM


origins
He can't be because there is no similarity between them.

There are abundant similarities.

The thing is, there are written histories....

Way to miss the point. There are histories of Judaism and Christianity which point to them taking deities and ideas from other religions. When we point them out, you say 'not according to the Bible'. So which is it - are we allowed to use histories, in which case we can criticize your religion in similar ways you criticize Islam - or are we not allowed to use histories, in which case you can't criticize Islam the way that you want?

Mohammed created Islam that show how he took the moon god called Allah, main god in the pantheon at Mecca

It seems you can't even get the revisionist history right.
a
The moon God was called Sin. Message 5 of Does Allah = Moon God?. As the Quran explicitly says: "Do not prostrate before the sun, nor the moon". Christian Arabs call the Christian God, Allah.

And the symbol of Islam, the crescent moon, retains that original derivation.

No. The crescent moon didn't become connected to Islam in any particular way until around the fall of Constantinople. It was also linked with the Sumerians, the Sasanids and the Christians. It didn't become strongly tied to Islam until the 18th Century when the Ottoman empire started to use it as their flag and it didn't become the symbol for 'Islam' in general until the 20th Century - particularly in 1970s with the rise of Arab nationalism.

There is an open thread on this whole topic from antiquity: YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, adonai, lord, elohim, god, allah, Allah thread. where this will be more on topic. This thread is about differences between radical Islam and just Islam.


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ringo
Member
Posts: 13730
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 129 of 146 (802023)
03-11-2017 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
03-10-2017 2:03 PM


Re: Radical Islam - a threat to our way of life?
Faith writes:

The amazing western blindness about what Islam is and does and has always done historically....


You misuse the word "always". Historically, Islam has been more tolerant to Jews than Christianity has. You've been shown that time after time but you choose to remain blind.

The Muslims that I know have the same motivations as any other Canadian.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 03-10-2017 2:03 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Faith, posted 03-11-2017 10:53 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13730
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 130 of 146 (802025)
03-11-2017 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Faith
03-10-2017 3:48 PM


Re: The Way It Really Is
Faith writes:

I certainly hope I drive people away from your false Jesus.


I certainly hope there is no Hell and no God to send you there, because you're digging yourself a very deep hole.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Faith, posted 03-10-2017 3:48 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26449
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 131 of 146 (802027)
03-11-2017 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by ringo
03-11-2017 10:45 AM


Re: Radical Islam - a threat to our way of life?
You've bought some false history there. Overall jihad by the sword was consistently used against Jews and everybody else throughout the 1400 year Caliphate. And I don't consider the RCC to represent "Christians."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by ringo, posted 03-11-2017 10:45 AM ringo has responded

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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7446
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 132 of 146 (802028)
03-11-2017 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Faith
03-11-2017 9:45 AM


names
Not unless God chose the Jews AND told Muslims to kill them wherever they find them

a) that isn't in the Quran
b) God himself almost did the same thing in the Old Testament.

Not unless Jesus is the Son of God AND God doesn't have a Son

Some Christians have believed Jesus was not the son of God.

also Miriam is the sister of Moses in the Bible and Mary is the mother of Jesus who lived about 1400 years later than Miriam, but in the Koran Mary is confused with Miriam

According to the Old Testament, Jesus was Moses' assistant. He even gets a whole book dedicated to him. The name 'Mary' in Greek is Μαρία. In the Old Testament the sister of Moses is Μαριάμ. It's the same name. Some people share names, and some names have multiple variants.

Jesus is called Isa in Arabic Ieusu in the Latin, Iēsous in the Greek, if you go from Hebrew to English it is Joshua (when English used the 'soft' 'J' or Yeshua). Moses is called Musa. Abraham is Ibrahim in Arabic, Abraam in Greek, . The languages are different, and when you translate between multiple languages, choices are made and sometimes different sounding names emerge by the time you reach English. Heck, just look at Cristóbal Colón I mean Cristoforo Colombo - I mean Christopher Columbus. Same guy each time, would you believe.

Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Faith, posted 03-11-2017 9:45 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Faith, posted 03-11-2017 11:07 AM Modulous has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13730
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 133 of 146 (802030)
03-11-2017 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Faith
03-11-2017 10:53 AM


Re: Radical Islam - a threat to our way of life?
Faith writes:

You've bought some false history there. Overall jihad by the sword was consistently used against Jews and everybody else throughout the 1400 year Caliphate.


As usual, you're the one with the false history. Ferdinand and Isabella completed the re-conquest of Spain from the Moors and then proceeded to expel the Jews. Both were part and parcel of the same policy: "purification" of the Spanish nation.

Faith writes:

And I don't consider the RCC to represent "Christians."


Nor do jihadists represent Islam.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Faith, posted 03-11-2017 10:53 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26449
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 134 of 146 (802031)
03-11-2017 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by Modulous
03-11-2017 10:54 AM


Re: names
You're right the passage about the stone saying kill the Jew isn't in the Koran, it's in other equally authoritative writings:

Muhammad says that one day the very trees and stones will help Muslims to kill Jews

He says it in both Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, Islam's two most canonical hadith collections:

Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 791:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
I heard Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] saying, "The Jews will fight with you, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, 'O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!' "
Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

Some Christians have believed Jesus was not the son of God.

That means they aren't Christians.

also Miriam is the sister of Moses in the Bible and Mary is the mother of Jesus who lived about 1400 years later than Miriam, but in the Koran Mary is confused with Miriam

According to the Old Testament, Jesus was Moses' assistant. He even gets a whole book dedicated to him. The name 'Mary' in Greek is Μαρία. In the Old Testament the sister of Moses is Μαριάμ. It's the same name. Some people share names, and some names have multiple variants.
Jesus is called Isa in Arabic Ieusu in the Latin, Iēsous in the Greek, if you go from Hebrew to English it is Joshua or Yeshua. Moses is called Musa. Abraham is Ibrahim in Arabic, Abraam in Greek, . The languages are different, and when you translate between multiple languages, choices are made and sometimes different sounding names emerge by the time you reach English. Heck, just look at Cristóbal Colón I mean Cristoforo Colombo - I mean Christopher Columbus. Same guy each time, would you believe.

I guess if there were no reality and lots of people didn't have the same name who lived thousands of years apart and lived entirely different lives and had completely different character, your linguistic gymnastics might not be the complete waste of time it unfortunately is.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Modulous, posted 03-11-2017 10:54 AM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Modulous, posted 03-11-2017 11:11 AM Faith has responded

    
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7446
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 135 of 146 (802032)
03-11-2017 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by Faith
03-11-2017 11:07 AM


Re: names
You're right the passage about the stone saying kill the Jew isn't in the Koran, it's in other equally authoritative writings

There is no such thing as equally authoritative writings.

That means they aren't Christians.

No it doesn't. If they think Jesus is the annointed one, the Messiah, the Christ - they are Christians.

I guess if there were no reality and lots of people didn't have the same name who lived thousands of years apart and lived entirely different lives and had completely different character, your linguistic gymnastics might not be the complete waste of time it unfortunately is.

This means nothing. There are multiple people called Mariam, or Miriam, or Maria or Mary. The Quran does not confuse these people as you claimed. The Quran does mention Moses' sister, it does not think she is the same as Jesus' mother.

Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Faith, posted 03-11-2017 11:07 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Faith, posted 03-11-2017 11:42 AM Modulous has responded

    
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