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Author Topic:   Fake polls, fake news
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(5)
Message 151 of 710 (800162)
02-20-2017 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Faith
02-20-2017 11:43 AM


Re: Poor sad England, poor sad Europe
concerning England's shameful attempt to bar Trump from visiting.
Nah, you've got that wrong. We're debating whether to withhold a state banquet etc. He'd still be invited to come. It's Trump who tries to bar people entering countries.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Faith, posted 02-20-2017 11:43 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Theodoric, posted 02-20-2017 12:04 PM vimesey has not replied
 Message 155 by Faith, posted 02-20-2017 12:12 PM vimesey has replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 156 of 710 (800167)
02-20-2017 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by Faith
02-20-2017 12:12 PM


Re: Poor sad England, poor sad Europe
Percy is correct - it's a "State visit" which comes with the state banquet, invitation to address Parliament and other stuff too. We also invite world leaders to visits which aren't State visits. So whilst we're debating withdrawing the State visit invitation, there's no suggestion of withdrawing the invitation to visit altogether - it's a question of how formal it is, and with what implications it comes.
It's only a debate though - I'm pretty sure the State invitation won't be changed to an ordinary one, given May's Parliamentary majority.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Faith, posted 02-20-2017 12:12 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by caffeine, posted 02-20-2017 12:52 PM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 161 of 710 (800174)
02-20-2017 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by RAZD
02-20-2017 1:20 PM


Re: Poor sad England, poor sad Europe
He wants a party that celebrates him, not a state visit where world issues are discussed.
One should always play to one's strengths.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by RAZD, posted 02-20-2017 1:20 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by RAZD, posted 02-20-2017 4:59 PM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 166 of 710 (800183)
02-20-2017 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by jar
02-20-2017 2:47 PM


Re: Maybe not all Conservatives are fooled.
Milo Yiannopoulos has been uninvited as a speaker at this weeks Conservative Political Action Conference
A ray of sunshine :-)
I don't doubt that there are conservatives who don't buy in to the far right's agenda - it's good to hear about them.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by jar, posted 02-20-2017 2:47 PM jar has not replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 283 of 710 (800406)
02-23-2017 3:02 AM
Reply to: Message 280 by Faith
02-23-2017 2:10 AM


Re: Just a couple more counter-fake news videos
I don't think you know what propaganda is.
This is as good a description of propaganda as I've read:
Propaganda must always address itself to the broad masses of the people. (...) All propaganda must be presented in a popular form and must fix its intellectual level so as not to be above the heads of the least intellectual of those to whom it is directed. (...) The art of propaganda consists precisely in being able to awaken the imagination of the public through an appeal to their feelings, in finding the appropriate psychological form that will arrest the attention and appeal to the hearts of the national masses. The broad masses of the people are not made up of diplomats or professors of public jurisprudence nor simply of persons who are able to form reasoned judgment in given cases, but a vacillating crowd of human children who are constantly wavering between one idea and another. (...) The great majority of a nation is so feminine in its character and outlook that its thought and conduct are ruled by sentiment rather than by sober reasoning. This sentiment, however, is not complex, but simple and consistent. It is not highly differentiated, but has only the negative and positive notions of love and hatred, right and wrong, truth and falsehood.
Propaganda must not investigate the truth objectively and, in so far as it is favourable to the other side, present it according to the theoretical rules of justice; yet it must present only that aspect of the truth which is favourable to its own side. (...) The receptive powers of the masses are very restricted, and their understanding is feeble. On the other hand, they quickly forget. Such being the case, all effective propaganda must be confined to a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas. These slogans should be persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward. (...) Every change that is made in the subject of a propagandist message must always emphasize the same conclusion. The leading slogan must of course be illustrated in many ways and from several angles, but in the end one must always return to the assertion of the same formula.
I'm not a fan of the feminine characterisation, but the rest of it is a masterclass.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Faith, posted 02-23-2017 2:10 AM Faith has not replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 318 of 710 (800476)
02-24-2017 5:20 AM
Reply to: Message 316 by Rrhain
02-24-2017 5:11 AM


It's also worth pointing out that Sweden has what I think (I'd need to check) are the highest reported rates for rape in Europe. (Due principally to how rape is reported (a separate report recorded for each incidence of rape reported in a relationship) and a strong public awareness campaign encouraging reporting - these were the results of a study I read the synopsis of, carried out by a Swedish professor as I recall - I can find it again if need be).
The thing is this - if Sweden's authorities were suppressing true rape statistics, how likely does even Faith think it is that they'd manipulate them so as to show the highest rape rate in Europe ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 316 by Rrhain, posted 02-24-2017 5:11 AM Rrhain has not replied

  
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